lyauyeungaa
Newbie
Based on my own lessons learned I would stick to the QL17 for a while instead of upgrading the gear unless you have a specific use case which would require a different camera. Many of RF cameras of that era will give you a very good image quality. I started with Yashica Electro 35 which I still own and use today. I bet this will apply to QL17 as well. The lens is sharp, bright and the shutter is very quiet. The 40mm lens is also very close to 35mm.
I was however at the same place as you some time ago and went for 2 of options which you mentioned at the beginning. Out of curiousity and gear acquisition syndrome. There is however no perfect camera - all of them have some pros and cons. After a while I stopped to look for the non existing ideal gear and learned to admire what I already have. Let me share my own experiences:
Bessa - I own a Bessa R. Built quality is really OK however it's not the same level as Leica. The common issue with Bessas is RF which seems to be prone to get ouf of alignment. Once I got my camera I had to adjust it. It held several months until I noticed that it needed adjustment again. This time I secured the screw with the nail polish and so far so good (2 years now) however I don't use my Bessa too often. You will read many comment like my on this forum with regard to any of the R models. Plus the Bessa's shutter is noticeably louder compared to other cameras.
The M5 - (like probably any of the M cameras) it feels like a real tool designed to get something done, something serious. I tend to compare it to a gun. Other cameras may feel more like fragile toys compared to it. +100 points to confidence. M5 has some advantages compared to other M cameras when it comes to user friendliness minus the unusual look among other leicas. Leicas are very precise instruments which entails professional service. The seller who sold me the M5 claimed it was CLA'd several years before. Unfortunately there is no definition of CLA and after several months of using it I decided to get a full overhaul of my M5 which is a very costly process. That's why I don't advise anyone on a tight budget to start with the M system. Secondly if you are looking for an interchangeble lens camera it means at least two lenses. That something what doesn't come with a tight budget
The final question is - will you really notice any difference once you look at your pictures taken with any of the cameras mentioned above? I like to look at one particular 30x40cm hand made print at home taken with my Yashica Electro. It's pretty damn sharp photo taken with a 45 Years old camera which didn't even cost me 50EUR
Thank you for your very detail opinion!!
Unfortunately, the QL17 was a Christmas present for my girlfriend as she wanted an rf camera.
And when I tested it to make sure it is working and exposing fine, I completely fell in love with rf for its ability to look outside the frame and it feels like I am in the scene, unlike an SLR.
I even kept her present for a bit longer so that I can shot with it lol.
That's why I want to buy an rf and want to spend a little more money so that the camera can stay with me for a little longer.
I will try to adapt the lens that I have to see if it works out.
It is because I simply enjoy the feeling of shooting an rf camera so as long as I have a 35 and 50 (I may buy a 7A 35 or a used VM35 SC and adapt a 50mm that I have), I am good to go.
Btw, that 30x40cm hand made print would be amazing!! Hope I could have a chance to see it.
lyauyeungaa
Newbie
Thanks for your answer.
I would be very careful to choose I lens if I choose the M5 at last.
Could I ask how long have you owned an M5?
I was so attracted to M5 due to its viewfinder but is drawn back because the camera is years ago and the local Leica dealer told me that the camera meter is easier to stop working comparing with M6 and M7.
Have you experienced any problem with the meter so far?
And is it fixable? How much will it approximately cost to fix it?
There is probably no one in Hong Kong know how to fix a Leica, so I may need to ship it to other places to fix it anyway.
Huss
Veteran
It may be latest but it is still old, stopped being made a long time ago, with no parts available for repairs. As is it is more fragile than M cameras (rf goes out of alignment easily, film transport can have issues). It also does not have the feel and handling of an M.
If you get this, you'll still want an M.
Much better to get an M - they are mechanical and there are techs that fix them if needed. But most probably you won't need anything. And as the Bessa costs the same as a Leica now, it's a no brainer. Get a Leica.
hap
Well-known
can't say much for Hexar. But have CL, CLE, several M's including M5. unless it's a beater, you might not want to mess up your M5. Also have QL17 III. Really like it. Don't shy away from a CL. Can be bought cheaply. Can be sold cheaply. Just dn't use collapsible lenses without confirmation of compatibility. BEssas are expensive relatively speaking...........but not to Leicas.
kamil_k
Member
If that's the case then go for M5 (or any other M model). There is a high chance you would end up with a leica anyway in the future. It would be better to do so before spending money on another camera prior to that. M5 has it all.
Huss
Veteran
hap
Well-known
Yes, Huss
After writing my post , I realized my error and tried to edit and repost.....unsuccessfully. However, I think metered Leicas like M6 etc are substantially more expensive these days. I recently bought a beat up R and it was pretty reasonable. On eBay...Exc++ to Minty R's can easily be over 400-600. The other Bessas much more more. I'm not going to pay much to have the RF realigned if it's out of kilter. And I won't try to fix myself...well....maybe?
I miss reading Brian Sweeney.
D
Deleted member 65559
Guest
ly, any Leica (even without a working meter) will always maintain its value. There are various tech/companies in Japan that do superlative work on repairs. M5 aren't my favourites (had one) from a handling point of view, but they are superb tools as others can attest to. The advantage of the non electronic camera as you know is that even if the meter fails, you still have a camera. Personally, i'd choose the M5 over an M7, & i don't care for the cluttered viewfinder of the M6, new MP.
Here's one on Ebay in Hong Kong https://www.ebay.com/itm/Leica-M5-B...509507?hash=item2f38dd9883:g:V94AAOSwb5ZeFaNl
Here's one on Ebay in Hong Kong https://www.ebay.com/itm/Leica-M5-B...509507?hash=item2f38dd9883:g:V94AAOSwb5ZeFaNl
aizan
Veteran
Let's see...
In 2015, the R3M/R2M cost $670 with a case while they were still in production:
https://web.archive.org/web/20150421233353/https://cameraquest.com/voigt_250.htm
And then the price went up to $799 w/o case in 2016 after they had been discontinued:
https://web.archive.org/web/20160310103510/https://cameraquest.com/voigt_250.htm
So today a new Bessa would only be $850 if it was still in production. That's a good deal! Cosina should bring it back!
In 2015, the R3M/R2M cost $670 with a case while they were still in production:
https://web.archive.org/web/20150421233353/https://cameraquest.com/voigt_250.htm
And then the price went up to $799 w/o case in 2016 after they had been discontinued:
https://web.archive.org/web/20160310103510/https://cameraquest.com/voigt_250.htm
So today a new Bessa would only be $850 if it was still in production. That's a good deal! Cosina should bring it back!
PRJ
Another Day in Paradise
I always advize people that want to get a good rangefinder to get a Canon 7. Easy to find, inexpensive and they are great cameras.
Of the three you are choosing between, get the Leica if you want something to last you many years. Get the Hexar if you want a great camera knowing that if it breaks you are probably screwed. Forget the Bessa. Not worth the money.
Of the three you are choosing between, get the Leica if you want something to last you many years. Get the Hexar if you want a great camera knowing that if it breaks you are probably screwed. Forget the Bessa. Not worth the money.
hap
Well-known
Let's see...
In 2015, the R3M/R2M cost $670 with a case while they were still in production:
https://web.archive.org/web/20150421233353/https://cameraquest.com/voigt_250.htm
And then the price went up to $799 w/o case in 2016 after they had been discontinued:
https://web.archive.org/web/20160310103510/https://cameraquest.com/voigt_250.htm
So today a new Bessa would only be $850 if it was still in production. That's a good deal! Cosina should bring it back!
Yes, they should but they have a much bigger market making lenses for many camera companies. The new APO 50 for Sony for example is getting rave reviews.
mike rosenlof
Insufficient information
I have had an M5 for about five years now. It was supposedly serviced by Sherry sometime before I bought it. I don't have any reason to doubt the seller, but no proof either. It has been adjusted to use non-mercury batteries. I'm very happy with the spot-ish meter and the handling in general. The quality of manufacture is wonderful.
I have never touched either of the other choices, so can't really compare.
I have never touched either of the other choices, so can't really compare.
zenza
Well-known
You can still get Bessas for good prices with some patience. In the past year I've paid $460 for an olive R2 and $650 for an R4A.
What sellers are asking and what cameras are selling for are quite different. There's a few $1k Bessas that have been on the market for a very long time.
What sellers are asking and what cameras are selling for are quite different. There's a few $1k Bessas that have been on the market for a very long time.
hap
Well-known
mpaniagua
Newby photographer
Have used a Bessa R2, Leica M5 and Leica M6.
Bessa R2 is quite a nice machine. Only sold it since I was using M6 most of the time and there where some medium formats cameras I was interested on the time so sold it.
Bessa's viewfinder are real good, very bright.
Currently I'm using M5 since my wife took my M6 hostage for her use.
Never touched an Hexar so can't comment about that.
If you can get a tested/serviced M5 then go for it. Otherwise go for the Bessa. You get more shutter noise but I don't think that much of a problem.
On the other hand, I also use a Bessa T, which is a very fun camera (great rangefinder) that is overlooked. You need a viewfinder but it is quite fun to use.
Regards
Marcelo
Bessa R2 is quite a nice machine. Only sold it since I was using M6 most of the time and there where some medium formats cameras I was interested on the time so sold it.
Bessa's viewfinder are real good, very bright.
Currently I'm using M5 since my wife took my M6 hostage for her use.
Never touched an Hexar so can't comment about that.
If you can get a tested/serviced M5 then go for it. Otherwise go for the Bessa. You get more shutter noise but I don't think that much of a problem.
On the other hand, I also use a Bessa T, which is a very fun camera (great rangefinder) that is overlooked. You need a viewfinder but it is quite fun to use.
Regards
Marcelo
hap
Well-known
If you had to go to a barnack style camera experience without VF, wouldn't you really have a (Buick) I mean a Leica II or something?
Beemermark
Veteran
I'm not a fan of the M5 but I think is certainly a better choice than the Hexar or Bessa. I've had all three. Bought the Hexar new and while I loved it I could never get the RF to stay in alignment. It went back two or three times under warranty and finally Konica just gave me factory instructions for calibration. That didn't work either. Finally put a 28mm lens on it and just used DOF in shooting. I had it a long time and ended up beating the heck out it. Never had another problem besides the RF.
Better choice would be the M2/3/4 with the MR-4 meter. The MR-4 is very, very good.
Better choice would be the M2/3/4 with the MR-4 meter. The MR-4 is very, very good.