Leica M6 vs. Konica Hexar RF vs. Zeiss Ikon ZM

rivyr

Newbie
Local time
2:28 PM
Joined
Jun 27, 2011
Messages
3
Location
California
Hey guys! So I know at his forum people are very passionate about their own rangefinders, but I wanted to get some opinions. I am looking to get a really nice rangefinder that can handle M mount lenses. I am considering getting one of the three: Leica M6, Konica Hexar RF or the Zeiss Ikon ZM. I know all three cameras are great, but I am having trouble deciding which one to get. I have seen reviews for all of them but I just can't decide which one to get. So I am looking to you, the members of such an awesome forum! (That last sentence was really lame...)

Anyway, what would you guys recommend? Also, If theere is an awesome review out their that you think I should see, please share! Thank you!
 
You will get mixed/strong opinions. For example, ZI has brightest viewfinder, but M6 has highest patch contrast. Etc.

There is a comparison of Roger Hicks somewhere, but also he is biased, like me and everyone 🙂 (my vote is M6).

Best is to try them out, if possible, since only you can decide. Where in California are you ?
 
Last edited:
Zeiss Ikon would be my choice between it and the M6. Nicer viewfinder, aperture priority, 1/2000th shutter, lighter than the M6. Probably about the same price, or less.

I dont know much about the Konica so I left that out.
 
Do not leave out the Cosina Voigtlander Bessas as a 4th option.

Bottom line: they are all great cameras and you cannot go wrong with any of the 4. While I only have first hand experience with the Leicas and Zeiss Ikons, I have heard enough people rave about the Konica Hexars and Bessas.

I know this is not helping you make a decision but all you will hear is someone's personal preference. Just buy any one of them and learn to love it.
 
I use the M6 and the Hexar RF (among others),and I prefer the M6. The Hexar feels solid (and is heavy), with automation,and a VF with little magnification.
 
no silver bullet. But have you ever read a negative review about any of these cameras? Im saying you can't go wrong with either. Thus, the only person who can make that final call is you. Try them out.

I have a m6 and love it
 
Only have M2/3s and the Hexars, but my gut is that the M6 is the ticket if feel is important to you. Hexars are solid (titanium), but not Leica solid. The Hexar's RF FOV apparently is suitable for 25mm if you look outside the lines. 1/4000 is nice, as is mid-roll rewind, and of course AE(L). The C mode might find use if you scale focus with lots of DOF. Easy to adjust the RF at home using Internet instructions.
 
Last edited:
Hey guys! So I know at his forum people are very passionate about their own rangefinders, but I wanted to get some opinions. I am looking to get a really nice rangefinder that can handle M mount lenses. I am considering getting one of the three: Leica M6, Konica Hexar RF or the Zeiss Ikon ZM. I know all three cameras are great, but I am having trouble deciding which one to get. I have seen reviews for all of them but I just can't decide which one to get. So I am looking to you, the members of such an awesome forum! (That last sentence was really lame...)

Anyway, what would you guys recommend? Also, If theere is an awesome review out their that you think I should see, please share! Thank you!

I own an M6 (TTL) and also have owned a Zeiss Ikon and a couple of Voigtlanders. I'd advise you to think seriously about an M6, because the Zeiss is not really cheaper.

However, it's not a no-brainer. The Zeiss Ikon is a great camera with a beautiful viewfinder. It has automatic frame selection (like an M6) but has the option of aperture priority automation, which the M6 does not have. It's lighter than the M6, as has been said.

A big difference: You can get a brand new Zeiss Ikon, with a warranty and a dealer who sold it to you new. An M6 is a minimum of 13 years old, maybe 27 years old. Leicas do need repairs and tuneups, and they're expensive. Can you afford that? With some used M6s you might have to do that right away.

To be fair, you can probably get an M6 repaired any time between now and the end of your life, assuming you will want to be shooting film that long. The parts will be out there, and skilled technicians will be out there. I doubt that the same is true of a ZI. So, I would say the Leica is possibly more expensive to maintain but probably more long-lived than the ZI.

Tom
 
Last edited:
Hi rivyr, they're all good! You could get 2: the M6 and the ZI or a Bessa...

As with lenses, cameras are tools: we need more than one lens, and more than one camera, because there's no camera (lens either) that's the best one for all different situations... If not, all of us would have the same camera and lens, and manufacturers wouldn't make more than a universal camera/lens.

From that point of view you could decide to pick one of the three you mention, considering you'll buy another camera soon to cover different situations with both... No need to consider those three exclusive...

"One that doesn't require batteries for its shutter, and another one capable of autoexposure", is something you could mix with "one for real wideangles and another one for longer lenses"...

There are even other common photographic situations that require other gear: my best option is -lots of times- to use my Hexar AF, and in some places (dangerous ones, etc...) my "best lens" is the one on my Oly XA... When a photograph is good, it's good because the photographer used the right tool and knew what to do, not because of the brand or camera quality or lens' sharpness...

Just one more comment: once I did a poll here on RFF (you might find it) about which AE RF between ZI, M7 and Bessas was the one that had more problems and required more repairs... The most problematic one for RFF members was the ZI, and the least problematic ones after more than 100 voters were the Bessas, with M7 in the middle...

I use an R4M and an R3A as main street cameras because their viewfinders were designed to work as a team as they complement each other (Hasselblad and Arca Swiss for shots with more than half a second to act...) and Hexar AF, Leica IIIF, Oly XA and Oly 100Wide for other lights, moods and risky places... SLRs and digital with friends and family... I feel two or three cameras with small lenses allow me to be ready for more shots in the middle of the situations I love, and also allow me to have more fun shooting in the middle of the ones I love...


Cheers,

Juan
 
Last edited:
rivyr -- you realize of course you're going to stir up a (friendly) hornets' nest with this question of yours! 🙂

I have owned, through the course of time, a Zeiss Ikon, a Bessa R3A, and a Leica M6 (non-TTL). They're all great cameras. I've had a great time shooting with each of them.

My (entirely subjective) impressions:

Bessa

Pros: a great camera for the price, especially if you can find one used. The viewfinder is big and bright. The Bessa is easy to use and very well-made. The AE is very handy and reasonably accurate. Fast 1/2000th shutter speed, which is much faster than Leica. Quick 1/125th shutter sync, again faster than Leica.

Cons: 100% battery dependent operation. Definitely does not have that tangible Leica build quality. The AE on my R3A has inexplicably been confused occasionally, resulting in under-exposed shots. AE-lock button is awkward and only retains the lock while being pressed. Framelines are manually set, which means you have to remember to flick the selector switch whenever you change focal lengths.

Zeiss Ikon

Pros: Very well-designed camera. Beautifully bright viewfinder. Auto framelines (with numbering) are wonderful. AE is fabulous (the AE design on the Zeiss is a slightly better design than the Bessa, from what I understand). AE lock has better placement than the Bessa, and retains the lock without needing to be pressed in. The alloy body is nicer than the Bessa.

Cons: 100% battery dependent operation. The LEDs on the Zeiss Ikon are sometimes hard to discern -- and I don't even wear glasses. The traveling leaf shutter on my Zeiss has inexplicably jammed -- causing me a lot of worry. It mysteriously fixed itself. The ISO selection dial on my Zeiss has broken, through no mistreatment on my part. Needless to say, this is the first 'pro' rangefinder that I've owned that will be requiring service.

Generally, the shared DNA between the Bessa and the Zeiss gives me pause for thought. The viewfinder and shared AE / shutter technology are almost identical. You can tell when you look through the viewfinders of both -- the Cosina technology is evident in both machines. The shutter also sounds the same on both cameras. So what exactly is a photographer paying for with the Zeiss Ikon? A slightly nicer alloy body? A slightly longer rangefinder base length? These are minor benefits, IMHO.

I think Zeiss could have (should have) done a better job at making this camera a true contender for the Leica M6 or M7 ... in the end, it feels like a prettied-up Bessa with nicer bone structure than its plane-Jane cousin.

If you can find a Zeiss Ikon used for a reasonable price, I'd say go for it. I would never buy one brand new. They don't hold their value in the used market that well (a used one sells for roughly 50-60% of the new price), and a Bessa is not a very different camera. Heretical, I know. But I've owned both for about 2 years now, and that's my experience.

Leica M6


Pros: It's a Leica.

No, seriously. You can feel it when you hold it in your hands. It's heavier than the Bessa or Zeiss, and exudes quality. It's a finely crafted instrument. Exquisite. A tactile pleasure. I love mine to death.

More pros: simple center-weighted spot metering, which is very reliable once you understand how it responds. Very quiet shutter (much quieter than the Zeiss Ikon). Excellent viewfinder with auto framelines. Durable construction (the cloth shutter is supposedly rated for 400,000 actuations). Easy on batteries, and more importantly, 100% functional without batteries. Another big pro: because the 'newest' M6 is now almost 14 years old, they have fully depreciated. You can always re-sell it for roughly what you paid for it. If anything, prices for clean M6 bodies are creeping upwards.

Cons: No AE. Framelines are not numbered. Viewfinder is not as bright as the Bessa / Zeiss. Quirky bottom-loading film system (really isn't bad once you get used to it). The non-TTL M6 has a smallish shutter speed dial, which means some awkward finger fumbling while you're composing a shot with the camera held to your eye. Another con: the 'newest' M6 is now almost 14 years old (see earlier comment) -- so chances are any M6 will need a CLA / tune up in the not-distant future. I think mine needs an oil change and a tire-rotation.

Verdict? Short of actually borrowing / renting each of these cameras, I would suggest looking at your budget and making a list of the qualities you're looking for in a rangefinder. What is important to you? Auto-exposure? Super-fast shutter speed? Old-world quality? In the end, only you are the one who can make the correct decision.

Any of these cameras can take fabulous pictures. After all, they're ultimately just metal boxes that you stick a lens onto. It's the mind behind the camera that makes the photo. 🙂

Good luck with your search!
 
Last edited:
I have a Leica M6ttl and the Hexar RF. Both at the minute are completely unusable. The M6 went under water for a short period crossing a creek whilst hiking last summer destroying the circuit board. The cost for a replacement is more than what the camera cost new. The shutter will also not fire but I may be able to get this fixed (and still use it albeit with a small handheld meter.) The moral here: yes Leicas can be repaired but at a cost. My Hexar was in a padded bag which slipped off my waist and hit a bitumen road (also whilst hiking). The result, the rangefinder is so far out of whack to be completely unusable. One repairman had an unsuccessful attempt to realign it and it's with another at the moment and I'm keeping my fingers crossed. I've just ordered a Bessa R2M working on the principal that if I drop it, drown it, run over it,drop kick it etc for a few hundred bucks it can be replaced new (with 3 viewfinder options) at less than repairing the much more expensive cameras. I have never owned a Zeiss Ikon. So my advice is.... ??????
 
thomasw has a point -- although in my case, it was my Bessa's RF patch that would go out of alignment. The Zeiss Ikon never did. But both are ultimately Cosina products, so they have a shared lineage.

Really, I think boils down to personal preference with these modern RF cameras. They're all excellent. If you look a late-model Soviet rangefinder like a Fed 5, the Zeiss Ikon & Leica are a Lexus or Mercedes by comparison. 😉
 
alan davus -- sorry to hear about your mishaps. You have a good point about servicing and reliability. I never considered what it would cost to replace the circuit board on my M6, but after hearing your story I will be a little more careful with mine.

Hope you manage to get those camera troubles worked out.
 
I find the light Bessa (R,T,L) cameras to be very useful for photography on the go. The bodies are light, with a accurate lightmeter and good shutter. I use mainly a Bessa T, and also the Bessa L for the CV 25/4. The R is also fine, but the film advance broke down,and got repaired recently. I can easily place three Bessa bodies side by side in a small camera bag. The L and R are for the LTM lenses, while the T takes M and LTM lenses with an adpater. The L and the T have no VF.
 
M6. Anything higher you pay, is more than made up for with the advantages (already noted previously).

Owning one, I can say the 'cons' noted above are not really that bad.

Bottom line: more good than bad with the M6 option. I could care less about the "Leica mystique", I just want something that works and makes sense. This does.
 
The added plus for the M6 is the feel of using such a fine camera. Add to it a Summicron, and you have an amazing camera plus lens. I take better photos with my M6 than with other cameras because I take more care in composition. Same applies to using a Rolleiflex TLR.
 
I have / had all three until very recently and still have the M6.
The Hexar is great, but getting it fixed is a gamble now and has a VF for wide angle lenses, if you intend shooting with a 75/135, it's not a great choice.

The Ikon is great, the RF is the best by far, big bright and accurate and as mentioned several times, AE, that's accurate and very handy.

The M6 is hard to beat, has a choice of 3 finder magnifications .58, .72, .85 to suit your shooting style, TTL and non TTL models, black paint, black chrome, chrome, gold and I think a special Royal Edition (maybe?).

My vote is for the M6, out of the three, it's the only one I kept.
 
+1 for the M6. Of all the RF cameras I have owned, it's the one that I enjoy using the most. Like raid said above, I feel like I take 'better' photos with it, mostly because it requires the most skill to use properly. The M6 needs all of my attention -- 100% engagement.

Could be all in my head, though. Who knows? I'm getting old, middle aged and all that. 🙂
 
Back
Top Bottom