Leica M60 - a fantastic deal at $18,500

Huss

Veteran
Local time
3:12 PM
Joined
Sep 19, 2014
Messages
9,859
When Nikon released the DF, many people said all they wanted was a camera like an FM2 or F2 but with a digital sensor. No AF, no computer screen on the back. Back to basics.
Now when Leica actually has released such a camera, apparently there are some that are outraged!

Is $18,500 too much? Let’s break it down..
A regular production M-P is about $8000.
A regular production 35mm 1.4 is about $5000.
Total = $13000.

The M60 and lens is a limited run edition, made from a different material (stainless steel), that required different tooling, production design and techniques. You get all that for only a 42% markup?
Take your emotion out of this for a moment, and think about this from an economic standpoint.
You are getting a uniquely designed, uniquely built limited edition camera for only a 42% premium.

If Nikon, Canon, Sony etc made a limited edition camera, out of unique materials with a one off design based on an existing model, don’t you think it would be more expensive than the regular version?
Wouldn’t you think that a 40% premium would be acceptable?

What we are seeing here is just another variant of the anti-Leica effect. It doesn’t have the latest gee whiz features and I can’t afford one, so it sucks.
 
What we are seeing here is just another variant of the anti-Leica effect. It doesn’t have the latest gee whiz features and I can’t afford one, so it sucks.

I don't think that's the case at all. I think many people already feel Leica charges too much for its cameras and lenses (note I said many, not I) and that when you remove features, a camera should not command a premium. Now you have already stated why there IS a premium and it makes sense. However, the one niggle in the equation is that you have to buy the camera with a 35mm 1.4... when many already have lenses. So, if the M60 was $11360 (8000 x 1.42) without a lens, maybe people wouldn't have reacted as badly (though I think they still would have).

The other side of the coin is that most are into as many features as you can cram into a camera, so a camera like this is just laughable to some already...add the price tag and it is an easy target. Purists are also an easy target.

Special edition digital Leicas feel wrong to me though (due to the pace of digital's change)... I have no issue with the film ones.
 
... It doesn’t have the latest gee whiz features and I can’t afford one, so it sucks.

I don't care about the latest features, but yes it sucks that I can't afford it. ;)

Then again, I think I'll get over it.

There, I'm over it.

Cheers,
Rob
 
When Nikon released the DF, many people said all they wanted was a camera like an FM2 or F2 but with a digital sensor. No AF, no computer screen on the back. Back to basics.
Now when Leica actually has released such a camera, apparently there are some that are outraged!

Is $18,500 too much? Let’s break it down..
A regular production M-P is about $8000.
A regular production 35mm 1.4 is about $5000.
Total = $13000.

The M60 and lens is a limited run edition, made from a different material (stainless steel), that required different tooling, production design and techniques. You get all that for only a 42% markup?
Take your emotion out of this for a moment, and think about this from an economic standpoint.
You are getting a uniquely designed, uniquely built limited edition camera for only a 42% premium.

If Nikon, Canon, Sony etc made a limited edition camera, out of unique materials with a one off design based on an existing model, don’t you think it would be more expensive than the regular version?
Wouldn’t you think that a 40% premium would be acceptable?

What we are seeing here is just another variant of the anti-Leica effect. It doesn’t have the latest gee whiz features and I can’t afford one, so it sucks.

Huss, great argument. Only issue I have is you can't really set your emotions aside when you buy a Leica. Given that, the size of the premium doesn't really matter.
The real question is would you buy the camera if it was available body only at the same price as the M typ 240? If yes then funds willing, you would pay a premium for the extra package trimmings. If no then it doesn't matter if it's a special edition or not.
In other words you can't justify the purchase simply because it comes packaged as a special edition. Assuming of course that you plan to make photographs with it.
 
OP...it is for camera fondlers. I would not want one. I shoot cams... I don't fondle em. Google my name, read my bio and you will see where my pix end up. Without a screen it would just make things harder. And I need to pay a fortune for that?
 
...
The real question is would you buy the camera if it was available body only at the same price as the M typ 240? If yes then funds willing, you would pay a premium for the extra package trimmings. If no then it doesn't matter if it's a special edition or not.
In other words you can't justify the purchase simply because it comes packaged as a special edition. Assuming of course that you plan to make photographs with it.

If Leica had offered me a M Edition 60 in standard model trim (e.g.: black paint or black chrome, without the lens, etc) for the same upgrade price they offered me the M-P, I would have taken that instead.

Such a model doesn't currently exist, unfortunately, so I took the M-P instead.

G
 
"The M60 and lens is a limited run edition, made from a different material (stainless steel), that required different tooling, production design and techniques. You get all that for only a 42% markup?
Take your emotion out of this for a moment, and think about this from an economic standpoint.
You are getting a uniquely designed, uniquely built limited edition camera for only a 42% premium.

If Nikon, Canon, Sony etc made a limited edition camera, out of unique materials with a one off design based on an existing model, don’t you think it would be more expensive than the regular version?
Wouldn’t you think that a 40% premium would be acceptable?"

Putting gaffer tape on the screen of an M does not make an M60.
;)
This camera required new tooling and different materials for a limited edition run.

Think of it from a business perspective. You actually think you could do all that and sell it for the same amount as an M?
Take your favourite Japanese camera. Imagine if the factory made it out of a different (fancier?) material. Imagine if it was styled differently. Imagine if it was made in a limited production run. You actually think it would not cost a lot more than the base camera?
 
OP...it is for camera fondlers. I would not want one. I shoot cams... I don't fondle em. Google my name, read my bio and you will see where my pix end up. Without a screen it would just make things harder. And I need to pay a fortune for that?

It's amusing how this camera causes bluster. But here's the thing, no offense but it's not about you.

It's about whether it is a good deal. And for that, you have to think clearly from the perspective of a business creating and selling this. How much would it cost over the base model to make something like this? Leica is only charging a 43% premium. Even though they had created a new design, used new materials, and new tooling. Did I mention for a limited run?
This isn't one of those limited edition models where all they did was change the leather and add some engraving.
 
Think of it from a business perspective. You actually think you could do all that and sell it for the same amount as an M?
Take your favourite Japanese camera. Imagine if the factory made it out of a different (fancier?) material. Imagine if it was styled differently. Imagine if it was made in a limited production run. You actually think it would not cost a lot more than the base camera?


Of course, you are right.
Get your Leica restyled Panasonic or maybe even a Sony/Hasselblad.

Everybody does it Fuji x100 limited, Konica Hexar, Fuji Ga645, the list goes on.

I even put a cherry tomato on the dry aged steak I sell and charge a premium per kg, tomato and all.
 
Of course, you are right.
Get your Leica restyled Panasonic or maybe even a Sony/Hasselblad.

Everybody does it Fuji x100 limited, Konica Hexar, Fuji Ga645, the list goes on.

I even put a cherry tomato on the dry aged steak I sell and charge a premium per kg, tomato and all.


How does the Fuji X100 ltd, Hexar, Ga645 etc differ from the base models?
Different tooling required? Different materials used? Different design?
Or just different paint and a sticker?

The closest I can think of to the Leica M60 is the Hasselbald Stellar. Based on the Sony Rx100, but at $3000 instead of $500! But it has the same screen, functions etc. Funny thing is,when they dropped the price to $1000 they sold out. So... that means the price point was at 100% greater than the base camera.
Hmm, the Leica is only 43% greater. And not using a 2nd party camera.
 
How does the Fuji X100 ltd, Hexar, Ga645 etc differ from the base models?
Different tooling required? Different materials used? Different design?
Or just different paint and a sticker?

The closest I can think of to the Leica M60 is the Hasselbald Stellar. Based on the Sony Rx100, but at $3000 instead of $500! But it has the same screen, functions etc. Funny thing is,when they dropped the price to $1000 they sold out. So... that means the price point was at 100% greater than the base camera.
Hmm, the Leica is only 43% greater. And not using a 2nd party camera.


Your arguments are based on assumptions concerning price of development and production.

All I can say is that Leica takes the saying " Less is more" to new levels and more power to them,
I have lost interest in their products long time ago so I really shouldn't be here.

Have fun,

Wim
 
WWim, why do you think that a limited edition M240 of the caliber of the M60 version would cost less than $18k? Maybe it would cost more. Look at the cost of limited editions M9-Ps.
 
When Nikon released the DF, many people said all they wanted was a camera like an FM2 or F2 but with a digital sensor. No AF, no computer screen on the back. Back to basics.
Now when Leica actually has released such a camera, apparently there are some that are outraged!

Is $18,500 too much? Let’s break it down..
A regular production M-P is about $8000.
A regular production 35mm 1.4 is about $5000.
Total = $13000.

The M60 and lens is a limited run edition, made from a different material (stainless steel), that required different tooling, production design and techniques. You get all that for only a 42% markup?
Take your emotion out of this for a moment, and think about this from an economic standpoint.
You are getting a uniquely designed, uniquely built limited edition camera for only a 42% premium.

If Nikon, Canon, Sony etc made a limited edition camera, out of unique materials with a one off design based on an existing model, don’t you think it would be more expensive than the regular version?
Wouldn’t you think that a 40% premium would be acceptable?

What we are seeing here is just another variant of the anti-Leica effect. It doesn’t have the latest gee whiz features and I can’t afford one, so it sucks.

I think it's OK if someone is going to use it like any other camera, not keep it as a collector item. I can't see any bright future to a digital collectible camera since it may become obsolete and non usable in only 1 or 2 decades.
 
My most emotional and irrational purchase ever, it will arrive on Wednesday says UPS, a M60 from Leica Vienna. USD 14,140.00 excl VAT:eek:
The M240, Summicron 28, Summilux 35 asph (pre FLE) will be sold to partly finance the purchase.
 
Looks like it will really need a Thumb's Up in stainless steel, or a case in some kind of luxuriously understated leather.

Enjoy!
 
Back
Top Bottom