Leica M8: A Camera for Life

literiter said:
I wonder if most people who consider a camera like this aren't more interested in the name than the camera. Far more creative tools may not have the Leica name but their utility may be far, far more.
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Because IMH(umble)O, the M8 with a decent lens produces the best digital images I have ever seen or shot.

Along with Leica producing arguably lenses of rarely matched quality, it is a killer combimation (if you can tolerate crop factor). I have not used ZM or CV lenses yet but from what I gather from others, these are also tremendous combinations.

Try one...remove the Leica logo, and see if you would keep it anyway.

I would. And did! :)

MB
 
tomasis said:
Ned, If you have only one camera M8 with 50mm lens (no other things). I bet you cannot live with 67mm as main lens fov ;) it becomes tele, right?

I wish you would bounce on the wall when you step back while composing ;) It is very lucky for you that you are film hardcore. I'm coming back to film due all that damn FOV, DOF thing no matter how you don't understand all this.

Imagine when you are in very narrow room with M8 and 28mm but you cannot take shots you'd used with film i.e. very wide shots. Walls say stop unless you have a hammer to make holes in the walls.
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Strangely enough I have not encountered this situation yet.
 
DOF does change with format.

DOF does change with format.

NB23 said:
That's only true if you reframe, *if you MOVE*. If you recompose. Otherwise, the DOF stays the same. THE SAME.

Find a D2X ans test for yourself. Or wait for the files I will upload sometime in the future.
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This is wrong. If you use the same lens at the same aperture from the same distance but different formats DOF changes because the circle of confusion changes. For example for 50mm lens at F4 on both a 40d and a 5d the circle of confusion for the 40d is 0.019mm for the 5d it's 0.03mm. This is because of the extra amount you have to enlarge a small format digital file to produce the same sized print. The upshot of this is that for a 50mm lens at F4 at a distance of 3ft the DOF for a 5d is 0.25ft for a M8 it's 0.19ft and for a 40d it would be 0.16ft. If you don't believe check for yourself at http://www.dofmaster.com
 
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msbel said:
Because IMH(umble)O, the M8 with a decent lens produces the best digital images I have ever seen or shot.

Along with Leica producing arguably lenses of rarely matched quality, it is a killer combimation (if you can tolerate crop factor). I have not used ZM or CV lenses yet but from what I gather from others, these are also tremendous combinations.

Try one...remove the Leica logo, and see if you would keep it anyway.

I would. And did! :)

MB
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I'd like to see a side by side comparison with a Nikon D200, D300, D3 or one of those fantastic Canon Pro models for the image. Perhaps one of those "blind" tests like they have done with stereo systems.
 
literiter said:
I'd like to see a side by side comparison with a Nikon D200, D300, D3 or one of those fantastic Canon Pro models for the image. Perhaps one of those "blind" tests like they have done with stereo systems.
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That would be cool.....save for one thing.. no matter the result you'd still be left with folks on both sides of the equation doing "brand battling" based on the fact that they're two completely different types of cameras.

That is, if the Leica image is better; someone inevitably says "but you can't shoot macros or long telephotos with a rangefinder!!" and if the Canon/Nikon is better you have someone screaming "BUT BUT that camera and lens is SOOO heavy!!"

It's a never ending loop of indifference rather than people understanding that they're different systems for different reasons.

Dave
 
sitemistic said:
"Because IMH(umble)O, the M8 with a decent lens produces the best digital images I have ever seen or shot"

This does not bode well for Leica if they plan to upgrade image quality. I've certainly seen this stated on many forums, especially regarding the M8 having better image quality and resolution than the 21 megapixel 1Ds MkIII. Why mess with a winner.
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This could well be so.

I used my M8 alongside my 1Ds II for almost a year now. The M8 sensor looks like a 16 mill. pixel sensor cropped down to 12 mill. Which it probably is. An object at the same distance from the camera, viewed with the same focal length lense has the same size, but with a slight edge to the M8 resolution wise. - Possibly because of better optics and no low pass filer. The M8 is better at recording certain high contrast details. like water, silverware, glass etc. These items look more 'dull' with the Canon. Leica M8 excells through the excellent optics. The Canon excells at high ISO.
 
Toby said:
This is wrong. If you use the same lens at the same aperture from the same distance but different formats DOF changes because the circle of confusion changes. For example for 50mm lens at F4 on both a 40d and a 5d the circle of confusion for the 40d is 0.019mm for the 5d it's 0.03mm. This is because of the extra amount you have to enlarge a small format digital file to produce the same sized print. The upshot of this is that for a 50mm lens at F4 at a distance of 3ft the DOF for a 5d is 0.25ft for a M8 it's 0.19ft and for a 40d it would be 0.16ft. If you don't believe check for yourself at http://www.dofmaster.com
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But why does everyone have to tell me to go visit some websites? Make your own test and come back. Or even better, take a scissor and cut a photo and scan it so I can see the "increased" dof.
 
NB23 said:
But why does everyone have to tell me to go visit some websites? Make your own test and come back. Or even better, take a scissor and cut a photo and scan it so I can see the "increased" dof.
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Did you even read what I posted - DOF is reduced not increased all else being equal with the example I gave - you've really not grasped this at all.
 
Toby said:
Did you even read what I posted - DOF is reduced not increased all else being equal with the example I gave - you've really not grasped this at all.
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I did, but I think you're wrong. The dof doesn't move. Just test it yourself.
 
Fred, you're the only one coming up with the hyperfocal subject. I don't think you're different or above me, here. What do you think?
 
NB23 said:
I did, but I think you're wrong. The dof doesn't move. Just test it yourself.
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DOF is not a constant. it's based upon both the circle of confusion for the format size and the size of the enlargement that you're making. A 7x5 has more perceived depth of field than a 16x20 of the same image at the same viewing distance. The physical nature of the lens does not change but the DOF of a print is not about that, it's a perception issue more to do with the nature of the human eye.
 
Fred, you know perfectyl well what I am talking about and that indeed I am not wrong. And you are not wrong either. You are just talking about one thing and me about another thing. This whole thing started when someone asked a question, you asnwered wrong and then deleted your post because you we're wrong indeed (come on, admit it cause I've witnesseed it).

Now instead of just acknowledging, you push this whole story to your advantage with other simple concepts (coc and hyperfocal distance) annd trting to pass me as being ignorant.

Your game, you're playing it alone. you're not fooling me and you know it very well.
 
Here's how I'd explain the DOF issue going on here:

With a 50mm lens on a 35mm film camera or full frame digital camera you get the expected DOF of a 50mm lens at a given f-stop at a given distance.

When using a digital camera with a crop factor, you will need to attach a 35 or 28mm lens (depending on the crop factor) in order to get the same 50mm field of view. The resulting image will show the DOF characteristics of a wide angle lens, rather than of a 50mm lens, ie greater DOF at a given f-stop at a given distance when compared to a 50mm lens.

So crop factor does have an effect on DOF, because you'd be using a wider lens to get the 50m field of view.

Does that make sense, or do I have it wrong too?
 
Fred,

The reason people keep address NB23 is because he asked the question: "Why do people need a FF camera??" on the first page of this thread - I responded and tried my best to explain the concept but NB23 insists that DOF does not change.

I'm not going to try to convince him - I don't own a crop body for just that reason (the dof / recomposition issue) - it's pointless to try to explain it to someone who does not own a full frame body.

Dave
 
dcsang said:
Fred,

The reason people keep address NB23 is because he asked the question: "Why do people need a FF camera??" on the first page of this thread - I responded and tried my best to explain the concept but NB23 insists that DOF does not change.

I'm not going to try to convince him - I don't own a crop body for just that reason (the dof / recomposition issue) - it's pointless to try to explain it to someone who does not own a full frame body.

Dave
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Dave,

I see you don't understand. How incredible. You either don't read corerctly what I say or you're joking. Nonetheless, here's a post just for you. I'd appreciate you answering that one:

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?goto=newpost&threadid=53919

I'd also appreciate you talk to me instead of mentioning me to another person while ignoring the rest.

Funny.

Ah yeah, and I do own FF cameras. Unbelievable heh?
 
NB23 said:
Dave,

I see you don't understand. How incredible. You either don't read corerctly what I say or you're joking. Nonetheless, here's a post just for you. I'd appreciate you answering that one:

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?goto=newpost&threadid=53919

I'd also appreciate you talk to me instead of mentioning me to another person while ignoring the rest.

Funny.

Ah yeah, and I do own FF cameras. Unbelievable heh?
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Ned..

I replied to what you posted in THIS thread - I care not what you're posting elsewhere - it was a simple reply to Fred's question about why people are still focusing (pardon the pun) on the DOF item.

As I said, I'm not trying to convince you, or anyone else for that matter, I am only stating what I know. If you feel you are right then more power to you. Enjoy your M8.

Dave
 
camera for life? hmph my i-pod which i bought in 2004 just bought the farm, one day decided it wanted to die. (it was a great product though I loved it's all touch sensitve controls and it even was showing some patina). I'll be laughing when one day you're M8's won't turn on and then you'll find out that it's cheaper to buy a new camera.

Sending your camera back to get a few things upgraded for another $1k something dollars and having to wait around until it's done is inefficient. they shoul'd have just realease a newer model with a lower sticker price like the rest of the camera companies.........
 
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