krötenblender
Well-known
The sensor is not the only criteria when byuing a camera...
And the mFT sensors are not bad at all.
And the mFT sensors are not bad at all.
Leica M8 & M9 ... and Olympus Pen-F digital?
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Axel
singleshooter
But for me there must be real arguments to live with the limitations of a small(er) sensor.
That´s a physical thing and does not depend on labels.
My APS-C cams do what they have to. The smaller ones, compacts down to the phone, have their advantages in portability.
Where is the place for a camera that is only marginally smaller than the others and
makes my lenses all telephoto?
Had this already when switching from film to digital APS-C.
So there are different decisions if you already have a system or plan to build your first
and only. And if you shoot full frame also you think about investing in (m)4/3 more than
ever...
That´s a physical thing and does not depend on labels.
My APS-C cams do what they have to. The smaller ones, compacts down to the phone, have their advantages in portability.
Where is the place for a camera that is only marginally smaller than the others and
makes my lenses all telephoto?
Had this already when switching from film to digital APS-C.
So there are different decisions if you already have a system or plan to build your first
and only. And if you shoot full frame also you think about investing in (m)4/3 more than
ever...
kbg32
neo-romanticist
Raid, I have all three. While images from the Leicas are "special", there is a quality about them that is instantly noticeable when I process them compared to other files from other cameras. On the other hand, I am always blown away by the images from the Pen-F regardless of its sensor size. It never ceases to surprise me. The lenses, I have Panasonics as well as Olympus, are excellent. Convenience and the ability to shoot unobtrusively, the auto focus is extremely fast, are the Olympus' strengths.
retinax
Well-known
I don't see yet what for you'd need it, Raid, unless you want to do macro or tele work that the Ms can't do or need AF and TTL viewing for some other reason. I understand you like to use the same set of lenses on ff and m4/3 to double focal lengths, but to me that wouldn't be worth the hassle and expense of a new body. You have to learn it, carry another charger and batteries, learn to process the images to fit visually with the Ms... whereas long lenses for M are comparatively cheap, you have some already if I remember right from some posting.
oldwino
Well-known
I owned a Pen-f for a while after I sold me M9. Neat little camera, but almost too small. Buttons everywhere.
Very good sensor, lots of resolution. Good colors. Very fast autofocus.
But something about the files always disturbed me a little. They have a “brittleness” to them. It may be the reduced DR...I don’t know.
I tried out a Leica TL2. Much nicer files, and I can use my old M lenses on it, plus almost any other lens. Right now, I’m enjoying some older Olympus OM lenses on it. Those little lenses are really nice!
Very good sensor, lots of resolution. Good colors. Very fast autofocus.
But something about the files always disturbed me a little. They have a “brittleness” to them. It may be the reduced DR...I don’t know.
I tried out a Leica TL2. Much nicer files, and I can use my old M lenses on it, plus almost any other lens. Right now, I’m enjoying some older Olympus OM lenses on it. Those little lenses are really nice!
krötenblender
Well-known
willie_901
Veteran
Absolutely not.
I'm saying bright light does not necessarily compensate for choices with lower S/N performance.
S/N is always an advantage because more S/N always minimizes parameter estimate uncertainties. Sensor area is one of the significant factors that affect S/N.
The S/N of the newest m4/3 systems can outperform an older 24 X 36 mm body.
The S/N difference between M4/3 and APS-C is small.
If I didn't detest the 4:3 aspect ratio and prefer to compose with an OVF, I would find the newest Olympus system tempting. For travel and a daily carry, the m4/3 system offers significant advantages.
willie_901
Veteran
raid
Dad Photographer
OK, so it is not really a matter of avoiding M 4/3. I will think about it more. I must make sure that I actually would "respect" a new M 4/3 as much as my older M8 and M9.
raid
Dad Photographer
Kent
Finally at home...
Hi, Raid. All the best for 2018!
IMHO µ4/3 cameras show a suprisingly high performance. I have shot with several Olympus cams (1, 5, 10, PEN-F) and Panasonics (G1, GX8) and own a PEN E-P3.
They are great if used with µ4/3 lenses (which are excellent and make an ever so compact set-up) or (what I use my E-P3 most for) to shoot with c-mount glass and some fun stuff e.g. by Lomography. I totally agree with Andy when he writes that he dislikes µ4/3 sensors for adapting vintage lenses, the crop factor spoils most if the fun.
For me, the perfect complement for my M8 and M6 is my Sony A7II. This cam shines with vintage glass and most M-lenses.
IMHO µ4/3 cameras show a suprisingly high performance. I have shot with several Olympus cams (1, 5, 10, PEN-F) and Panasonics (G1, GX8) and own a PEN E-P3.
They are great if used with µ4/3 lenses (which are excellent and make an ever so compact set-up) or (what I use my E-P3 most for) to shoot with c-mount glass and some fun stuff e.g. by Lomography. I totally agree with Andy when he writes that he dislikes µ4/3 sensors for adapting vintage lenses, the crop factor spoils most if the fun.
For me, the perfect complement for my M8 and M6 is my Sony A7II. This cam shines with vintage glass and most M-lenses.
raid
Dad Photographer
Happy New Year, Kent!
I agree with you on using vintage lenses on M 4/3 systems. I find that adapting vintage lenses works only with tele crops in the end. I am reluctant to spend a lot of money on a new M 4/3 camera, such as the Pen-F, which then most likely makes me buy at least one expensive new lens for it. The E-PL1 or E-P2 are still fine for snapshots on the go. The Sony A7II may be another alternative to think about.
I agree with you on using vintage lenses on M 4/3 systems. I find that adapting vintage lenses works only with tele crops in the end. I am reluctant to spend a lot of money on a new M 4/3 camera, such as the Pen-F, which then most likely makes me buy at least one expensive new lens for it. The E-PL1 or E-P2 are still fine for snapshots on the go. The Sony A7II may be another alternative to think about.
Archiver
Veteran
I have a M9 and Olympus E-M5, and I also have the Panasonic GH3, GH4 and GM1, all of which have 16mp sensors. Due to the processing and white balance of these cameras, I have to say that I prefer the colour output of the GM1 the most, then the GH3. GH4 colour is pretty good but not like GM1. Olympus white balance and colour palette always seems kind of darker and warmer than I like when processed with Lightroom 4.4, and I haven't been able to get an overall colour palette that I really like with it.
There are many times when I shoot the GM1 and M9 alongside each other as I feel they complement very well, and I can get the colours of the GM1 to have a similar look to the M9 in Lightroom.
I'm extremely happy with the f1.8 Olympus primes including the 17, 25, 45, and 75, as well as the 60mm macro. The Panasonic 14/2.5 is pretty good, but it doesn't have the saturation and 'bite' of the Olympus 25. As you have the Pana Leica 25, I'm sure it's even better than the Olympus 25.
The Panasonic 12-35 and 35-100 zooms are also excellent, but probably a little too clean and modern for your tastes. Incredibly versatile, though.
There are many times when I shoot the GM1 and M9 alongside each other as I feel they complement very well, and I can get the colours of the GM1 to have a similar look to the M9 in Lightroom.
I'm extremely happy with the f1.8 Olympus primes including the 17, 25, 45, and 75, as well as the 60mm macro. The Panasonic 14/2.5 is pretty good, but it doesn't have the saturation and 'bite' of the Olympus 25. As you have the Pana Leica 25, I'm sure it's even better than the Olympus 25.
The Panasonic 12-35 and 35-100 zooms are also excellent, but probably a little too clean and modern for your tastes. Incredibly versatile, though.
Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
I checked many reviews and image files for Pen F. It looks like if people know what they are doing, then high ISO would come as good.
For example: https://robinwong.blogspot.ca/2016/02/high-iso-shooting-with-olympus-pen-f.html
I wonder how bad is Pen F shutter lag, if any in manual focus mode?
I already have Oly 35 OVF and 15mm f9 is on its way by slow economy shipping 🙂.
For example: https://robinwong.blogspot.ca/2016/02/high-iso-shooting-with-olympus-pen-f.html
I wonder how bad is Pen F shutter lag, if any in manual focus mode?
I already have Oly 35 OVF and 15mm f9 is on its way by slow economy shipping 🙂.
krötenblender
Well-known
Yes, the image quality is pretty good at high ISO and you can of course do something in post. But it has limits, when viewed in 1:1, as always.
It's not bad at all. Instead it is more or less immediate. A good practice is to have the shutter half pressed, using focus peaking in MF and fully press, as soon as the color-indicators show focus.
You mean the 15mm lens-cap-not-a-real-lens? That thing and its fisheye-brother are just crap... Okay, for Lomo-Style-shooting, they are pretty good, actually. But as "lens", they are crap.
raid
Dad Photographer
I have had excellent results from the basic and older model E-PL1 with Zeiss Sonnar 5cm/1.5 as a portrait lens. The colors are amazingly beautiful and natural looking.
Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
Does it mean camera is unable to release shutter if focusing by scale distance and framing in external OVF? It always want to be in focus by its guts first?
I donno about crap in this case:
https://www.flickr.com/groups/bcl-1580/pool/page1
To me Leica Thambar holds this value. 🙂
krötenblender
Well-known
No, you can shoot anytime, no need to have anything in focus. I was just wrongly assuming, that focusing is a part of your intention with manual focus setting. But with the lens-cap-lens you can't really focus of course. This will work fine and without noticable lack.
Well, I think, it depends, if you are talking technical image quality or the quality of the shoot. For the latter, the lens-caps are just fine. I used one myself for some time and did capture some nice shoots just from the hip without focusing. Just looking technical quality wise, they are crap. At least, cheap crap. 😀
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