eleskin
Well-known
I had a chance to test the M9 with my 50mm Summicron, 50mm Noctilux, and 35mm Canadian Summicron version 4. In one word I am very impresed, especially with the Noctilux. The M8 still stands well against the M9, and is still a fine camera. What I liked is having my 50mm back to 50mm, and it really shows well with the Noctilux. Highlights seem to be better controlled than the M8, and better color tone. Sharpness is fine, but here the M8 holds its ground, but the M9 is a little better with the extra pixels. The extra pixels I believe do help in smoothing out problem areas, especially with noise at ISO 640 as well as the new sensor.
I spoke with Kodak about sensor development and they told me they plan to improve the M9 chip as new technology presents itself. This tells me the M9 will be the long term platform and maybe the possibility of sensor upgrades. The big question here for Kodak for me was how close to film will sensors get as they improve. I told them I have one shot taken of the Vietnam Memorial in DC exposed for the shadows on the wall itself, with a bright sun beaming from the clouds above (shot with TMAX 400 Fuji GSW 690) and given the choice of film vs. Digital, film stil would be the choice, despite all the advances from all of the major manufacturers. That being said, the M9 looks like a camera that could do 90% of what I photograph, as the M8 has. I still plan to buy one later next year, only because I always wait well into the production run so they (Leica) can iron out any bugs if any in the camera as well as the possibility of newer technology. I did mention to one of the Leica reps that I would love to see the M9 in original traditional chrome, and would love the option to engrave Leica script to make it more like the M3 in look (no M9 on front, just the "Classic" look). I also suggested that they offer screen replacement kits like Canon and Nikon , useful when the plastic gets too scratched up and marred. It seems a suction cup pulls off the plastic, and then you peel off the sticker backing on the new screen and pop it in. That way, we do not have to worry about it, and can replace it ourselves and not wait weeks for the camera for something that is not critical to its operation.
Well, thats it for now. I may post a few pics from the expo. They are not exciting in that they were taken at the leica counter, but they tell me this camera is very good. All I have to do now is save for my purchase next year some time after Tax season and maybe the chance prices could come down to the M8.2 level as production increases due to demand.
I spoke with Kodak about sensor development and they told me they plan to improve the M9 chip as new technology presents itself. This tells me the M9 will be the long term platform and maybe the possibility of sensor upgrades. The big question here for Kodak for me was how close to film will sensors get as they improve. I told them I have one shot taken of the Vietnam Memorial in DC exposed for the shadows on the wall itself, with a bright sun beaming from the clouds above (shot with TMAX 400 Fuji GSW 690) and given the choice of film vs. Digital, film stil would be the choice, despite all the advances from all of the major manufacturers. That being said, the M9 looks like a camera that could do 90% of what I photograph, as the M8 has. I still plan to buy one later next year, only because I always wait well into the production run so they (Leica) can iron out any bugs if any in the camera as well as the possibility of newer technology. I did mention to one of the Leica reps that I would love to see the M9 in original traditional chrome, and would love the option to engrave Leica script to make it more like the M3 in look (no M9 on front, just the "Classic" look). I also suggested that they offer screen replacement kits like Canon and Nikon , useful when the plastic gets too scratched up and marred. It seems a suction cup pulls off the plastic, and then you peel off the sticker backing on the new screen and pop it in. That way, we do not have to worry about it, and can replace it ourselves and not wait weeks for the camera for something that is not critical to its operation.
Well, thats it for now. I may post a few pics from the expo. They are not exciting in that they were taken at the leica counter, but they tell me this camera is very good. All I have to do now is save for my purchase next year some time after Tax season and maybe the chance prices could come down to the M8.2 level as production increases due to demand.
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
The Leica booth had some poster sized prints that were of remarkable quality that really showed off that modern Leica glass. (especially the new 21mm and 24mm/1.4 wides) I pointed out the color and sharpness to my girlfriend.
When I walked past the Nikon booth I indicated to my girlfriend the differance in IQ in comparison to the Leica booth. Even though not side-by-side the differance was dramatic. Made me want to sell all my Nikon gear. I was crushed.
Although I'm a Cyclotron Engineer, I'm one of those retro guys who can barely use a cell phone, but I can feel the gas for a M9 in the next year or two. I'm not there yet, but I was inspired.
Save...Save...Save...
Calzone
When I walked past the Nikon booth I indicated to my girlfriend the differance in IQ in comparison to the Leica booth. Even though not side-by-side the differance was dramatic. Made me want to sell all my Nikon gear. I was crushed.
Although I'm a Cyclotron Engineer, I'm one of those retro guys who can barely use a cell phone, but I can feel the gas for a M9 in the next year or two. I'm not there yet, but I was inspired.
Save...Save...Save...
Calzone
bene
Established
I got hit with the M9 Bug as well. Selling my sony gear too!
M9 is too expensive now. I think the official list price gap for 8.2 and 9 is 500 euro so the street price should be m8.2 + 700 usd? Street price should be around 6500 USD once the craze is over.
Agree / Disagree?
M9 is too expensive now. I think the official list price gap for 8.2 and 9 is 500 euro so the street price should be m8.2 + 700 usd? Street price should be around 6500 USD once the craze is over.
Agree / Disagree?
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
Right now, I see waiting lists. The waiting is part of the process IMHO.
There was an informative post yesterday that gave an overview of new technical limitations in full sized sensored cameras. Do a search.
Seems like pushing the ISO on the M9 increases the noise, so for pushing/high ISO the older technology at this time might be better in this reguard. (M8 and M8.2)
There is a lot to think about, but for a retro film guy I am finally serious about learning digital. The Leica booth and the M9 inspired me, but I'm sure I'll get spanked pretty bad, because I am at the very bottom of the learning curve. In the meantime, I'm getting ready for the new challenge.
Calzone
Jelico
Member
I don't think that we will ever see price $6500, it might be even higher than what is now, at least for next year or so. Demand is too big, with 8000 units on order it will take 8-9 months before we see M9 on stock waiting for buyers/dealers to think about the 'street price'. By then Leica will raise the price as they usually do/did.
swoop
Well-known
Agreed. The M8 was the first digital camera to ever go up in price. The initial units were released at $4700. Then prices were raised to $5500. Then the M8.2 came around at $6000.
It will be at least 3 years until the M9 gets cheaper. Even if leica does the M9.2 thing with sapphire glass and viewfinder magnifications (the only options I can imagine them adding) or possibly a real upgrade of improved batteries, sensor upgrade, high rez LCD and faster processing hardware. It will be priced even higher and the original M9 will retain the $7k price tag.
I'd rather buy the M9 at the price it is now. And then spend $1500 later to upgrade. Rather than $8500 all in one blow.
I'm also confident Leica WILL offer an M9.2 upgrade eventually. And will offer upgrade options for original M9 owners. As it seems to be part of their business model. A camera that defies obsolescence. And is a way for them to build revenue and profit off the M9 further, with original owners as well as the used market that will eventually pop up. It makes more sense for them rather than releasing new cameras every 18 months as Canon and Nikon does and keeps users happy that their $7k investment isn't a dead end.
At least that's how I feel. if I wasn't able to upgrade my M8 with M8.2 features. I would definitely wait for an M9.2 to arrive. But knowing that eventually I'll be able to have integrated into my M9, future features. I have no problem buying now. As history proves, Leica users keep their cameras for years, not months.
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Calzone
Gear Whore #1
Thanks for the historical overview. Your insights are very helpfull.
I'm wondering if the above price increase from $4.7K to $5.5K was due to the drop in the purchasing power of the U.S. dollar (exchange rates), or was it a real price increase. Could you elaborate?
I am thinking with the current economic trends that buying sooner might be better, if I can.
Thanks ahead of time.
Calzone
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Ted2001
Established
I would argue that the very high electronic component content of the M-9, like many technology goods would lead to lower future prices. As full-frame sensors become more widely available and are produced in larger volumes, the prices should fall dramatically. Leica might be able to hold prices where they are, but with increased competition and lower component costs, they could come down.
Avotius
Some guy
I am thinking that we will see the M9 go up in price too because as people put it "this money has shifted 3% against that money so the camera needs to adjust its price 15% for international market blah blah blah"
Leica's are notorious for increasing in price. New M6's use to be about the same as a Canon EOS 1V then by the end of their cycle they were near double the price.
Leica's are notorious for increasing in price. New M6's use to be about the same as a Canon EOS 1V then by the end of their cycle they were near double the price.
lemalk
Rebel Without Applause
I don't see any major future upgrades. It doesn't make sense. The 8.2 was a cash grab with the old platform (M8).
I do see incremental upgrades as a way to ensure additional $ coming in, but I don't expect sensor upgrades to original M9s --- keep in mind, the M8 was supposed to be a platform for life.
It seems to me like everything inside the M9 could be retrofitted to an M8 yet Leica chose not to go that route. The bodies are disposable and upgradeable (in a *minor* way).
And I think the M9 will definitely not drop...unless there's another full-frame RF on the horizon....dun dun dun!
I do see incremental upgrades as a way to ensure additional $ coming in, but I don't expect sensor upgrades to original M9s --- keep in mind, the M8 was supposed to be a platform for life.
It seems to me like everything inside the M9 could be retrofitted to an M8 yet Leica chose not to go that route. The bodies are disposable and upgradeable (in a *minor* way).
And I think the M9 will definitely not drop...unless there's another full-frame RF on the horizon....dun dun dun!
Tom Niblick
Well-known
The M9 will go only down in price when the M10 is released.