Leica M9 FF-CCD corrosion - A most satisfactory conclusion

[uhoh7]

It appears to me that people flipping out is what drove Leica's decision.

I doubt the widespread trolling and Leica bashing had much effect, as we have seen that many times in the past.

What may have really made a difference was calm users posting the actual effects as they progressed and the time frames involved.

The huge fan base of the M9 and MM, myself included, finally began to to understand the issue had not been solved in the replacement sensors, and that we might all one day need to deal with it.

My own sensor is circa fall 2013, with no signs of delam, so I'll be holding out till it's seriously effected. By then I suspect we will have a new batch of sensors, and knock on wood, they will be more bombproof.

But it's hard to dispute there was a change of heart somewhere in the company, very recently.

It's also worthy of note the most informative and predictive voice in the whole affair was that of Brian Sweeny.

Sorry SONY ..... Leica is King! 🙂

Harsh LOL ...but I cannot disagree 🙂

 

[V-12]

I doubt the widespread trolling and Leica bashing had much effect, as we have seen that many times in the past.

What may have really made a difference was calm users posting the actual effects as they progressed and the time frames involved.

Well said, problem is that as a way to save face the trolls now want to see themselves as hero's for doing so much whining.

Of course none of this would have happened if the command chain at Leica considered how their statements would be read and interpreted before issuing them, two inept statements followed by a resolution is typical for Leica, so they should have learned before now.

V

 

[jaapv]

The only reason that Leica have made this offer is because of what has been said and fear of losing repeat and future business. Honorable company with photographers best interests at heart I think not. It doesnt take a genius to work this backtrack out.
When they have a product that lives up to their own and others hype and is backed up long term then maybe their PR damage limitation departement can go home.
I'll stick with my film M's and digital Nikons thanks.
Seriously Leica, get your act together and you could maybe deliver the camera you are always talking about!

Ummm... Nikon needed a class action suit to be forced to stand behind their product...🙄

http://petapixel.com/2014/08/07/nik...tion-lawsuit-offering-d600-owners-free-d610s/
And even then they tried to limit liability by trying to keep the deal secret....

Also a sensor issue,btw.

 

[Keith]

Although I don't own an M9 I think Leica are doing the right thing here as any manufacturer should if they want to protect their market share.

What they really need to do is fast track a new sensor ... otherwise this will be an ongoing problem that will continue to bleed resources for years to come.

 

[jaapv]

.

Considering what Leica was able to do in-house with the S2, it would have been interesting to see an in-house M9... .

I would say that would be the M (Typ240) and upcoming model.

 

[Vobluda]

Nice, Leica got scared and do what they should do in the first place and not asking 1800 EUR for sensor replacement.

 

[MCTuomey]

The one thing that really addresses the concrete needs of most M9 owners--repair turnaround time--is conspicuously absent from Leica's official response. So they have kind of "backed out of it" from the get go.

I wonder how people feel about sensor repairs, either permanent or temporary, that take 3-4 months? Or again, about being simply unable to plan in advance how much time the repair turnaround will take? How much of that frustration translates into upgrades is a question that only Leica can answer, but from the user's point of view, it's basically "upgrade-bait".

Me, I'm fine with it. Leica replaced my M9 sensor almost 2 years ago in about 6 weeks dorr-to-door (at no charge). I don't expect that turnaround speed now. I prefer Leica to take its time and provide a robust, permanent solution. If it takes months, okay. And if I change my mind about the time, yes, I should be able to consider an upgrade, which I might do anyway. But then I have other cameras I enjoy using, so no harm or foul. My attitude with Leica has always been "high-end, high maintenance" with corresponding expectation. Fussy machines, these M9 brethren, but I enjoy them.

At my age and sensibility, when I start to get indignant and all sweaty, I take a deep breath, pour a whiskey or order a manhattan, and kick back. These are just cameras. Nobody got sick or died or suffered ...

 

[Calzone]

Now that would be an attractive prospect ...

Michael,

I agree, but I can more likely see Leica coming out with Monochrom-P with some improvements like the larger screen of the M-240, the larger buffer of the M-240, and the framelines of the M-240. Of course this would still use the CCD sensor.

I'm also hopefull for the release of the rumored MM-240. I also want a monochrome CMOS sensor.

Cal

 

[Calzone]

Me, I'm fine with it. Leica replaced my M9 sensor almost 2 years ago in about 6 weeks dorr-to-door (at no charge). I don't expect that turnaround speed now. If it takes months, okay. And if I change my mind about the time, yes, I should be able to consider an upgrade, which I might do anyway. But then I have other cameras I enjoy using, so no harm or foul. My attitude with Leica has always been "high-end, high maintenance" with corresponding expectation. Fussy machines, these M9 brethren, but I enjoy them.

At my age and sensibility, when I start to get indignant and all sweaty, I take a deep breath, pour a whiskey or order a manhattan, and kick back. These are just cameras. Nobody got sick or died or suffered ...

So far almost two years and no problems with my Monochrom. Even knowing back then what I know now I have no buyer's remorse and would buy my Monochrom again, and this is coming from an old B&W film die-hard.

I am spoiled by the performance and convenience, and shooting the Monochrom has made me a much better photographer. The workflow is so speedy that it allows me to shoot more. Because shooting digital requires such precision, especially with the Monochrom, it also has made me into a better film photographer. Best money I ever spent.

Cal

 

[Pioneer]

Well you did have money... "two M digitals" later, not so much? 🙂

🙂🙂 That is the fruit of 8 years of saving specifically for them. 😀

And man is that MM fun !!😀

 

[nobbylon]

Ummm... Nikon needed a class action suit to be forced to stand behind their product...🙄

http://petapixel.com/2014/08/07/nik...tion-lawsuit-offering-d600-owners-free-d610s/
And even then they tried to limit liability by trying to keep the deal secret....

Also a sensor issue,btw.

As far as I know, NOT a sensor issue but a shutter issue depositing oil on the sensor.
I'm in full agreement that all companies are as crappy as each other when it comes to backing up their crap products. My main issue with Leica is not and never has been about admission of liability. It has always been since the M8 release about their digital M product. It's always had issues from day one and it's a lottery as to whether you get a good one or a bad one. This forum and the Leica one is littered with threads going back to the M8 about shutter issues, UV issues, batteries, freeze ups, card compatibility, banding, bla bla bla and so it goes on and on. I'm not saying Nikon products are perfect but if I was a betting man I'd put my money on Nikon to produce something that would actually fulfill it's promise over Leica to do the same anytime.
You may have personally been blessed with all the good cameras but internet blogs and forums are not usually frequented by people making stuff up for this length of time. Denial and a head in the sand mentality from buyers is what has kept this company alive in a digital world, that and a completely unfounded comparison with their M film cameras reliability and longevity.
I would never pay Leica 6k on a new product but I wouldn't think twice about a Nikon costing the same. That to me shows where my confidence is and will continue to be until Leica produce something that proves itself over time and also gets the back up and parts inventory to keep it working SHOULD a mishap occur. What I don't want to be told is that I can upgrade to a newer model at x cost because we don't have the parts! it's laughable that anyone would buy into this way of doing things.

 

[Calzone]

As far as I know, NOT a sensor issue but a shutter issue depositing oil on the sensor.
I'm in full agreement that all companies are as crappy as each other when it comes to backing up their crap products. My main issue with Leica is not and never has been about admission of liability. It has always been since the M8 release about their digital M product. It's always had issues from day one and it's a lottery as to whether you get a good one or a bad one. This forum and the Leica one is littered with threads going back to the M8 about shutter issues, UV issues, batteries, freeze ups, card compatibility, banding, bla bla bla and so it goes on and on. I'm not saying Nikon products are perfect but if I was a betting man I'd put my money on Nikon to produce something that would actually fulfill it's promise over Leica to do the same anytime.
You may have personally been blessed with all the good cameras but internet blogs and forums are not usually frequented by people making stuff up for this length of time. Denial and a head in the sand mentality from buyers is what has kept this company alive in a digital world, that and a completely unfounded comparison with their M film cameras reliability and longevity.
I would never pay Leica 6k on a new product but I wouldn't think twice about a Nikon costing the same. That to me shows where my confidence is and will continue to be until Leica produce something that proves itself over time and also gets the back up and parts inventory to keep it working SHOULD a mishap occur. What I don't want to be told is that I can upgrade to a newer model at x cost because we don't have the parts! it's laughable that anyone would buy into this way of doing things.

John,

Originally I was a Nikon film SLR guy, but unlike you I put my bet on a Leica Monochrom. I also spent almost $8K for my Monochrom, and so far I have no problems. So far my gamble has been good.

As far as what is posted on the internet and on forums: I found that there was a lot of hype over sensor cleaning. I read many-many posts and threads that complained about how the digital M's being "Dirt Magnets."

I kinda freaked out because I shot my Monochrom for about 9 months without even checking my sensor for dirt. I bought a full Visible Dust kit and when I checked my sensor I discovered three specks of dust and an oily mark that required a wet cleaning. It has been almost two years of ownership and I have not had to wet clean my sensor. Also a filtered blower ball is all that is required to blow out any specks of dust for the most part, and only a few times I had to use my Artic Butterfly to help nudge a speck of dust.

I found what I read on this forum and the internet to be way overblown. Granted I practice good camera hygene and am not a cronic lens changer.

I suspect that some of the information gets overblown and amplified, due to the added expense and premium one pays for a Leica product. Also since Leica is considered a premium/luxury product expectations are higher. Then there are others who work as trolls to bash Leica because it is out of reach for them.

Please do not think I am criticizing you personally. What I am trying to do here is be critical of what is published on the internet.

I also realize that I'm not the only person who feels passionate about photography.

Cal

 

[Highway 61]

As far as I know, NOT a sensor issue but a shutter issue depositing oil on the sensor.
I'm in full agreement that all companies are as crappy as each other when it comes to backing up their crap products. My main issue with Leica is not and never has been about admission of liability. It has always been since the M8 release about their digital M product. It's always had issues from day one and it's a lottery as to whether you get a good one or a bad one. This forum and the Leica one is littered with threads going back to the M8 about shutter issues, UV issues, batteries, freeze ups, card compatibility, banding, bla bla bla and so it goes on and on. I'm not saying Nikon products are perfect but if I was a betting man I'd put my money on Nikon to produce something that would actually fulfill it's promise over Leica to do the same anytime.
You may have personally been blessed with all the good cameras but internet blogs and forums are not usually frequented by people making stuff up for this length of time. Denial and a head in the sand mentality from buyers is what has kept this company alive in a digital world, that and a completely unfounded comparison with their M film cameras reliability and longevity.
I would never pay Leica 6k on a new product but I wouldn't think twice about a Nikon costing the same. That to me shows where my confidence is and will continue to be until Leica produce something that proves itself over time and also gets the back up and parts inventory to keep it working SHOULD a mishap occur. What I don't want to be told is that I can upgrade to a newer model at x cost because we don't have the parts! it's laughable that anyone would buy into this way of doing things.

I don't own any digital Leica M body and I used to own a D200, a D700 and a D610, and I have used pretty all good DSLRs Nikon made. Okay, they all work superb and no bad surprises whatsoever.

But - one of the few digital photos of mine I am eager to have printed and framed was shot with a good friend's M9 sporting a Summicron-C 40/2...

Let's say it's because of the great fun I had while using that camera, by comparison with the average DSLR ?

 

[burancap]

I suspect that some of the information gets overblown and amplified, due to the added expense and premium one pays for a Leica product. Also since Leica is considered a premium/luxury product expectations are higher. Then there are others who work as trolls to bash Leica because it is out of reach for them.

If I may be so bold: I think that the problem today is that Leica is simply not the same company that it was a decade ago. There was a paradigm shift in image making (it is not like Ford decided one day that they were going to start building Mars rovers) and they were in a position of jumping on board or becoming what Hasselblad has become. We may not all like it. We may be disappointed with the product, or in this case the reliability and the service. But we all need to keep in mind what Leica has accomplished for a small company that was arguably on the brink at the time of the M8 launch. The old grey mare is not what it used to be. She may not be perfect, but she is still here and I am happy about that whether a customer or not.

 

[MCTuomey]

well said, jeff

 

[Highway 61]

If I may be so bold: I think that the problem today is that Leica is simply not the same company that it was a decade ago. There was a paradigm shift in image making (it is not like Ford decided one day that they were going to start building Mars rovers) and they were in a position of jumping on board or becoming what Hasselblad has become. We may not all like it. We may be disappointed with the product, or in this case the reliability and the service. But we all need to keep in mind what Leica has accomplished for a small company that was arguably on the brink at the time of the M8 launch. The old grey mare is not what it used to be. She may not be perfect, but she is still here and I am happy about that whether a customer or not.

+1

And : the M240 is too expensive for my wallet but it would be my one and only digital camera if I had the 8K for it and two lenses.

Nowadays' FF Nikon DSLRs are top-notch tools yes, but keep in mind all that existed before the D4, from the D1, passing by the D70 and the like. More than twenty models, with tons of customers worldwide to be the company's beta-testers.

Compare the D4 with the D100 and you have the idea of what's between the M240 and the M8.

The M240 is only the third digital Leica...

 

[MCTuomey]

@hwy 61 - nicely put perspective.

the haters will pound their fists on the table and demand the moon for their money (those that actually put some down). thinking about it, if the haters actually believed their canikon comparisons for reliability, service, etc., why do they post here instead of contentedly shooting their dSLRs with nary an interest in the internet? is there something of a "cake and eat it too" mentality at work? a childish "i wanna leica that runs just like my vanilla dSLR and doesn't stress my wallet"? paraphrasing zsa zsa, they clamor "ve vant eet all, dahling, yes." not in the real, all growed-up world of design, engineering, and production constraints where mishaps occur and resources are scarce.

 

[Calzone]

If I may be so bold: I think that the problem today is that Leica is simply not the same company that it was a decade ago. There was a paradigm shift in image making (it is not like Ford decided one day that they were going to start building Mars rovers) and they were in a position of jumping on board or becoming what Hasselblad has become. We may not all like it. We may be disappointed with the product, or in this case the reliability and the service. But we all need to keep in mind what Leica has accomplished for a small company that was arguably on the brink at the time of the M8 launch. The old grey mare is not what it used to be. She may not be perfect, but she is still here and I am happy about that whether a customer or not.

Jeff,

I would agree. Leica and the world have both changed.

Cal

 

[SuperUJ]

Well said, Cal!

John

John,

Originally I was a Nikon film SLR guy, but unlike you I put my bet on a Leica Monochrom. I also spent almost $8K for my Monochrom, and so far I have no problems. So far my gamble has been good.

As far as what is posted on the internet and on forums: I found that there was a lot of hype over sensor cleaning. I read many-many posts and threads that complained about how the digital M's being "Dirt Magnets."

I kinda freaked out because I shot my Monochrom for about 9 months without even checking my sensor for dirt. I bought a full Visible Dust kit and when I checked my sensor I discovered three specks of dust and an oily mark that required a wet cleaning. It has been almost two years of ownership and I have not had to wet clean my sensor. Also a filtered blower ball is all that is required to blow out any specks of dust for the most part, and only a few times I had to use my Artic Butterfly to help nudge a speck of dust.

I found what I read on this forum and the internet to be way overblown. Granted I practice good camera hygene and am not a cronic lens changer.

I suspect that some of the information gets overblown and amplified, due to the added expense and premium one pays for a Leica product. Also since Leica is considered a premium/luxury product expectations are higher. Then there are others who work as trolls to bash Leica because it is out of reach for them.

Please do not think I am criticizing you personally. What I am trying to do here is be critical of what is published on the internet.

I also realize that I'm not the only person who feels passionate about photography.

Cal

 

[nobbylon]

@hwy 61 - nicely put perspective.

the haters will pound their fists on the table and demand the moon for their money (those that actually put some down). thinking about it, if the haters actually believed their canikon comparisons for reliability, service, etc., why do they post here instead of contentedly shooting their dSLRs with nary an interest in the internet? is there something of a "cake and eat it too" mentality at work? a childish "i wanna leica that runs just like my vanilla dSLR and doesn't stress my wallet"? paraphrasing zsa zsa, they clamor "ve vant eet all, dahling, yes." not in the real, all growed-up world of design, engineering, and production constraints where mishaps occur and resources are scarce.

Though not directly addressed to me I will say that I am not a 'hater' as you put it and did put my money down on an M9. I sold it very quickly as the images qualities were not as good as D3/D700 for what I wanted.
Post here in this forum? Or this thread? I still own and use Leica RF and SLR film cameras and through ownership and use of, feel more than capable of adding reasoned input to a discussion rather than name calling and sarcasm.
I could have used the 'fanboy' word so disliked in these forums in some of my posts but decided I'd probably get even more flak!
To Leica directly I say release a product I trust and I Will gladly put my money down.
Best regards John