xleic
Member
Yes but Edward wrote: "not only the sensor is replaced, but the entire board and battery/card slots as well because they all come in one piece."
I cant see any battery/card slots
EdwardKaraa
Well-known
Sorry I must have been more careful with my wording. As far as I know, from several sources, that the card and battery contacts are part of the board. It's not the slot or housing themselves. Sorry for any confusion.
John Thawley
Newbie
I had this problem with my M9. I was unaware it had become a wider problem until seeing this thread.
My "corrosion" appeared on the edge of the frame. It look the the edges of an atique mirror looks.... kind of grey-ish brown marble effect. It appeared as if it might be between the glass and the sensor.
Leica replaced the CCD/Circuit board free of charge AND... replaced an O ring in the motor coupling and replaced the Vulcanite body covering with the new leather covering.
I'm pleased with the service. As always.
My "corrosion" appeared on the edge of the frame. It look the the edges of an atique mirror looks.... kind of grey-ish brown marble effect. It appeared as if it might be between the glass and the sensor.
Leica replaced the CCD/Circuit board free of charge AND... replaced an O ring in the motor coupling and replaced the Vulcanite body covering with the new leather covering.
I'm pleased with the service. As always.
Vince Lupo
Whatever
Just curious - had you done any 'wet' cleaning to the sensor yourself before the 'corrosion' occurred on your sensor?
xleic
Member
Thanks, I understand now.
John Thawley
Newbie
That is a distinct possibility, Vince. Though I don't recall. Also, I had the sensor cleaned at a store in Toronto during a trip there. I'm not sure what method they use.
Vince Lupo
Whatever
Reason I ask is that when I spoke with Mark at Leica NJ, he mentioned the possibility of residue accumulating in the corners if one 'wet' cleans. Plus you mentioned about a discoloration on the edges of the frame -- not that correlation implies causation, but it was just a thought.
hausen
Well-known
Have contacted my local Leica agent to ask them the question and will take it in for a checkup.
Pioneer
Veteran
Well, my M9 is due for its' annual cleaning. For the past 2 years I have taken it to a local technician that I trust. This year I wrapped it up and shipped it off to Leica USA to have it cleaned and checked out. Though I haven't noticed anything, it is now 4 years old so I guess we will see if there is a problem. My technician charges me $50 for a full cleaning, I guess we will find out what Leica USA charges! 
It is kind of funny in a way. I seem to have no problem cleaning the sensors on my other cameras, but I have always shied away from doing it on the M9. What seems odd is that I have been cleaning my Pentax two or three times a year for over eight years and still have not experienced any problems.
It is kind of funny in a way. I seem to have no problem cleaning the sensors on my other cameras, but I have always shied away from doing it on the M9. What seems odd is that I have been cleaning my Pentax two or three times a year for over eight years and still have not experienced any problems.
willie_901
Veteran
After reading the Leica User Forum mega-thread on this subject, a likely hypothesis would be the M9s' Schott S8612 IR filter is responsible for the majority of these defects. Neither the color-filter array or sensor electronics' architecture/manufacturing methods (CCD) are involved.
The S8612 IR filter is degraded by humidity. There are links to the Schott spec sheets in Leica Forum posts. To summarize, the more efficient the filter, the more susceptible the filter is to humidity damage. As many here know, the M IR filter must be atypically thin in order to provide optimum optical performance with M lenses and retain some similarity to the classic M body thickness. This means it must be very efficient.
If the IR cover glass is responsible for these defects, it seems the the issue can only be eliminated by changing IR filter suppliers or by improving the protective coating used to minimize humidity degradation. Wet cleaning could be relevant for alcohol-based cleaning funds. Alcohol is highly hydroscopic and dissolved water might increase the rate of deterioration. Should alcohol become trapped behind the IR filter layer of the sensor cover, there could be prolonged contact with water.
Unfortunately this hypothesis suggests all M bodies with IR filters are at risk for humidity damage to the IR filter layer. No one seems to know what changes, if any, are implemented in replacement parts.
The S8612 IR filter is degraded by humidity. There are links to the Schott spec sheets in Leica Forum posts. To summarize, the more efficient the filter, the more susceptible the filter is to humidity damage. As many here know, the M IR filter must be atypically thin in order to provide optimum optical performance with M lenses and retain some similarity to the classic M body thickness. This means it must be very efficient.
If the IR cover glass is responsible for these defects, it seems the the issue can only be eliminated by changing IR filter suppliers or by improving the protective coating used to minimize humidity degradation. Wet cleaning could be relevant for alcohol-based cleaning funds. Alcohol is highly hydroscopic and dissolved water might increase the rate of deterioration. Should alcohol become trapped behind the IR filter layer of the sensor cover, there could be prolonged contact with water.
Unfortunately this hypothesis suggests all M bodies with IR filters are at risk for humidity damage to the IR filter layer. No one seems to know what changes, if any, are implemented in replacement parts.
YYV_146
Well-known
Well, my M9 is due for its' annual cleaning. For the past 2 years I have taken it to a local technician that I trust. This year I wrapped it up and shipped it off to Leica USA to have it cleaned and checked out. Though I haven't noticed anything, it is now 4 years old so I guess we will see if there is a problem. My technician charges me $50 for a full cleaning, I guess we will find out what Leica USA charges!
It is kind of funny in a way. I seem to have no problem cleaning the sensors on my other cameras, but I have always shied away from doing it on the M9. What seems odd is that I have been cleaning my Pentax two or three times a year for over eight years and still have not experienced any problems.
I wipe my Sony bodies at least monthly, sometimes twice a week. I have an unfortunate habit of hastily changing lenses outside, and the sensor catches dust...Never had a single issue.
yossarian123
Sam I Am
Could it be the thought of bricking something with the stratospheric price tag of an M9?
Back when I first bought my M9 (before I knew that the digital M bodies were as fragile as sparrows eggs), I used to wet clean my sensor every few months. The first time I was sweating bullets - way more than any other digital body I've ever cleaned. BTW, that M9 went back to NJ to have the sensor replaced. i've owned my MM for 8 months now and I haven't cleaned the sensor once, I just use a rocket blower every week or so and it's stayed perfectly clean.
uhoh7
Veteran
Let the herd panic. More grass for us
For my needs and goals the M9 is the best camera in the world today. I would not trade for the 240 even if they were the same price. I love it and take it everywhere on all sorts of conditions. It got a new sensor just before I bought it in January. I have not done anything but blow the sensor and it needs a cleaning, so I appreciate the detailed "best practices" above.
As to rest.....wake me when some one really gets the shaft from Leica. Most stories I hear today are the opposite, like Raid's.
Stated policies are one thing, and I could care less about them. Real experiences are another matter.
Worst case we may need to let one of the shops which regularly change out sensor covers fix a "delaminated" M9.
You don't like Leica re M9? Don't get one. Makes those of us who love them look that much better LOL
Even my 15 yr old daughter loves to shoot it:
Father Figure by unoh7, on Flickr
silverbullet
Well-known
The new official statement from Mr. Viau/Leica:
"As promised, we´d like to address a number of questions you have regarding the issue with our CCD sensor and be as clear as possible.
First let us state that we regret any inconveniences you may face and do investigate measures to durably fix the problem while still offering the best possible optical performance.
By a repair, we replace the CCD sensor with a sensor of the same type we use for serial production. We can thus not exclude totally a new case of corrosion after repair. Therefore, the goodwill arrangement also applies for a replaced sensor, which shows signs of corrosion. In these cases we will consider the sensor replacement date the same as the purchasing date.
We think that any potential damages of the sensor surface can occur due to cleaning the sensor and can lead to corrosion. We, therefore, advice to clean the sensor without touching it or in a dust-free environment such as in Leica Customer Care. We don’t want to convey the impression that you are not able to clean the sensor yourselves. If you are confident performing a sensor cleaning yourself, you may do so. But please be aware that the risk, when using wet cleaning solutions in the field, is higher.
At Leica, we use “Isopropanol” (isopropyl alcohol) and the following tools to clean the sensor, in the production as well as by the Customer Care:
Pentax Image Sensor Cleaning Kit, O-ICK1:
Sensor Cleaning Kit
Cleaning swabs made by ‘Visible Dust’:
Camera sensor cleaning — Arctic Butterfly sensor brush, loupe, swabs, liquids
With great care and attention, you may also use these for cleaning the sensor yourselves. Essential for not damaging the sensor is to painstakingly observe the manufacturers’ instructions and only work with new and unsoiled cleaning aids.
We kindly ask you for your understanding that sensors showing visible mechanical scratch marks occurring from improper cleaning attempts cannot be covered by the warranty and goodwill arrangement.
This is also the reason why we offer to perform cleaning at the Leica Customer Care, free of charge and as often as needs to be.
Should you be considering an upgrade to a Leica M or M-P (Type 240), Customer Care will make you an attractive offer as a part of our goodwill arrangement.
JJ Viau - Digital Marketing with Stefan Daniel - Director Product Management Photo
Leica Camera"
"As promised, we´d like to address a number of questions you have regarding the issue with our CCD sensor and be as clear as possible.
First let us state that we regret any inconveniences you may face and do investigate measures to durably fix the problem while still offering the best possible optical performance.
By a repair, we replace the CCD sensor with a sensor of the same type we use for serial production. We can thus not exclude totally a new case of corrosion after repair. Therefore, the goodwill arrangement also applies for a replaced sensor, which shows signs of corrosion. In these cases we will consider the sensor replacement date the same as the purchasing date.
We think that any potential damages of the sensor surface can occur due to cleaning the sensor and can lead to corrosion. We, therefore, advice to clean the sensor without touching it or in a dust-free environment such as in Leica Customer Care. We don’t want to convey the impression that you are not able to clean the sensor yourselves. If you are confident performing a sensor cleaning yourself, you may do so. But please be aware that the risk, when using wet cleaning solutions in the field, is higher.
At Leica, we use “Isopropanol” (isopropyl alcohol) and the following tools to clean the sensor, in the production as well as by the Customer Care:
Pentax Image Sensor Cleaning Kit, O-ICK1:
Sensor Cleaning Kit
Cleaning swabs made by ‘Visible Dust’:
Camera sensor cleaning — Arctic Butterfly sensor brush, loupe, swabs, liquids
With great care and attention, you may also use these for cleaning the sensor yourselves. Essential for not damaging the sensor is to painstakingly observe the manufacturers’ instructions and only work with new and unsoiled cleaning aids.
We kindly ask you for your understanding that sensors showing visible mechanical scratch marks occurring from improper cleaning attempts cannot be covered by the warranty and goodwill arrangement.
This is also the reason why we offer to perform cleaning at the Leica Customer Care, free of charge and as often as needs to be.
Should you be considering an upgrade to a Leica M or M-P (Type 240), Customer Care will make you an attractive offer as a part of our goodwill arrangement.
JJ Viau - Digital Marketing with Stefan Daniel - Director Product Management Photo
Leica Camera"
Vince Lupo
Whatever
Thanks for posting this info. So it sounds like if you're strictly using 'dry', touch-free cleaning methods (like a Rocket blower), you shouldn't have any troubles.
Monochrom
Well-known
So mr Leica doesn´t think corrosion maybe caused by high humidity ambient.
BTW i´ve cleaned my sensor only 3 times...i use a swab with alcohol.
BTW i´ve cleaned my sensor only 3 times...i use a swab with alcohol.
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
Soon is my two year anniversary of owning a Monochrom. I kinda freaked out about sensor cleaning, after reading posts about how the Leica sensors are "dirt magnets," and after owning and shooting my Monochrom for 6-8 months without any sensor inspection or cleaning.
I ended up buying a Visible dust kit that included an Arctic Butterfly, a bulb blower, and this wonderful illiminated loupe. When I inspected the sensor for the first time I was relieved to see only three specks of dust and an oily streak that required a wet cleaning.
I take care to limit my lens changing indoors, and since this first initial wet cleaning all I have had to do to clean the sensor is blow out any speck of dust with the hand bulb blower. I found that in my case sensor maintenance is minimal. I periodically check my sensor and find it to be clean, and if any dust accumulated I am able to just blow it off before it gets imbedded. The Visible Dust magnifier makes this task easy.
I figure I have another two months until my two years of ownership is up, then if any sensor issue arises I still have another year to get this addressed. I consider the Monochrom a great camera and money well spent because it helped make me into a better photographer. Even if I have to get the sensor replaced, I would expect another three years of usage, and any more usage after six years is a bonus. Would love to use and keep my Monochrom going forward a lot longer if possible...
Understand though that I have a friend who owns a M9 that he had upgraded into a M9P. Very recently Leica replaced the sensor for free when my friend sent his M9P for a sensor cleaning.
Cal
I ended up buying a Visible dust kit that included an Arctic Butterfly, a bulb blower, and this wonderful illiminated loupe. When I inspected the sensor for the first time I was relieved to see only three specks of dust and an oily streak that required a wet cleaning.
I take care to limit my lens changing indoors, and since this first initial wet cleaning all I have had to do to clean the sensor is blow out any speck of dust with the hand bulb blower. I found that in my case sensor maintenance is minimal. I periodically check my sensor and find it to be clean, and if any dust accumulated I am able to just blow it off before it gets imbedded. The Visible Dust magnifier makes this task easy.
I figure I have another two months until my two years of ownership is up, then if any sensor issue arises I still have another year to get this addressed. I consider the Monochrom a great camera and money well spent because it helped make me into a better photographer. Even if I have to get the sensor replaced, I would expect another three years of usage, and any more usage after six years is a bonus. Would love to use and keep my Monochrom going forward a lot longer if possible...
Understand though that I have a friend who owns a M9 that he had upgraded into a M9P. Very recently Leica replaced the sensor for free when my friend sent his M9P for a sensor cleaning.
Cal
Sumolux
Established
I am glad that at least on rangefinderforum all these can all be discussed and debated.
The only thing the moderators (if they can be called that) on l-camerforum bring up is an immediate knee jerk: "Canon also has problems, Nikon the same, bla bla bla" or even worse 'get used to it, that is just the way the digital world works.' as if anyone who complains about these issues is total idiot. So the discussion gets nowhere fast as it is tamped down.
For me anyway, this thread - with all its positives and negatives -has at least brought up interesting issues to think about regarding sensor cleaning, such as the possible influence of moisture, which I never even considered as a possible issue.
Sumolux
The only thing the moderators (if they can be called that) on l-camerforum bring up is an immediate knee jerk: "Canon also has problems, Nikon the same, bla bla bla" or even worse 'get used to it, that is just the way the digital world works.' as if anyone who complains about these issues is total idiot. So the discussion gets nowhere fast as it is tamped down.
For me anyway, this thread - with all its positives and negatives -has at least brought up interesting issues to think about regarding sensor cleaning, such as the possible influence of moisture, which I never even considered as a possible issue.
Sumolux
Highway 61
Revisited
JJ Viau said:
...
silverbullet
Well-known
More than one year ago these sensor-irritations started. With every new case the only statement was "just a single case - don't worry"
But CCD/CMOS production is so delicate and compare to other mass production items so uniform, that there is more or less no tolerance between them. When sensor wafer A shows problems then all 4 neighbors must have the same, placed at the edge only 3 as a maximum. Those pieces are traceable and selected and kicked off.
Therefore the statement 'single case' was silly and only used to calm down forums.
But CCD/CMOS production is so delicate and compare to other mass production items so uniform, that there is more or less no tolerance between them. When sensor wafer A shows problems then all 4 neighbors must have the same, placed at the edge only 3 as a maximum. Those pieces are traceable and selected and kicked off.
Therefore the statement 'single case' was silly and only used to calm down forums.