Leica M9: Photographers Ditch Dslr Cameras. Amateur Photographer Uk!!!!

A PJ without a wide zoom and a long zoom lens is at a competitive disadvantage in breaking news situations. If things are happening fast, and you're the guy with a fixed 35mm on your camera, you lose. Especially if the guy 100 feet down the road has a gun.

He's also not going to cover a political figure from 100 feet away.

Trading in the DSLR doesn't sound like a good career move to me. Go figure.
 
The idea of Leicas working their way back into the hands of PJs keeps coming up on this forum. It's just not going to happen - at least not in the U.S. in any meaningful way.
Most staffers at medium/larger metros are supplied with camera gear by their newspapers. Even if the papers wanted to arm their photogs with M9s, they simply don't have the ability (financial) to do it. And if they did have the money, they wouldn't be looking at investing major dollars in still camera kits. Increasingly, they are looking at cameras with video capabilities, etc.
Leica long ago abandoned the working photojournalist when it failed/refused to deliver a digital camera when Nikon and Canon did. That's a bell that cannot be unrung at this point.
 
Pickett Wilson said:
A PJ without a wide zoom and a long zoom lens is at a competitive disadvantage in breaking news situations. If things are happening fast, and you're the guy with a fixed 35mm on your camera, you lose. Especially if the guy 100 feet down the road has a gun.

He's also not going to cover a political figure from 100 feet away.

Trading in the DSLR doesn't sound like a good career move to me. Go figure.
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Depends on who you're talking about. Photojournalists like those working for international agencies and newspapers need all those breaking moments and can't miss a thing.

Documentary photographers take more time and usually shoot stories over time rather than events so the need for long lenses isn't there.
 
Al Kaplan said:
I doubt that we'll ever get back to the point where a photojournalist's kit had an SLR or two with a 180/2.8, maybe a fast lens in the 85 to 105 range, but for the most part the lenses from about 90mm down were on rangefinder bodies. On the other hand I hear plenty of complaints from the PJ's I run into about the size and weight of a DSLR with a huge zoom. I was at a political event a few months ago chatting with a young Miami Herald photographer. She asked if she could hold and look through the finder of one of my Leica M bodies, something she'd never done before. She said that she wished the paper would let them shoot film and hoped that a full frame digital rangerfinder would hit the market. If Bessa could do that at the price of a DSLR there'd be a LOT of potential customers.
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Bingo. Leica is priced out of the everyday working market, so they will continue to be a niche player until they get real with pricing or go belly up.

Already people here are talking about used M9s for 35-50% of original retail. So what does that tell you?
 
quite a few PJs do indeed carry a couple of bodies with primes on rather than zooms galore. Had a nice chat with a chap carrying two 5dMKIIs with a 50 1.2 on one and a 24 1.4 on the other. As recently commented, it is a different way of working. not for everyone, but it certainly is not old school. Its about the brain and feet helping make images rather than a zoom ring. Its about engagement and knowing fewer things really well than having hundreds of focal lengths (in 1mm increments) available between 24 and 200. The PJ in question was about 30.

I think the M9 will be very popular with pros, not as their sole bit of kit, but for those times when they don't want to swing a giant rig about (e.g in a moving vehicle) appear too conspicuous (in a crowd) or too threatening (where people are camera shy) or look like a PJ. In such cases the SLR/S might go into the small pack leaving the small camera for working. Makes eminent sense to me, but as others have said, not for everything.
 
Pickett Wilson said:
The fact is that, over a period of several years, Leica managed to sell fewer than 20,000 M8's. Most of those were sold into the Japanese market, according to Leica. Many were obviously sold in the US to folks who were not professionals.
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Interesting to read this. As a comparison, the most recent new Nikon F6 cameras I've seen have serial numbers in the high 3x,xxx range so Nikon has managed to sell around 10,000 F6 cameras per year for the last four years. Yup, Nikon's last high end FILM camera out sold Leica's M8.
 
The issue which still has not been tested is the TTL flash.
If it's like the M8 it is not going to do.
Equally those used to a D3 in available light may find the hi iso of the m9 restrictive as and thus the flash capability is important.

The other real issue for pro use is the lack of service centres. A round trip to Germany is at best 6-8 weeks. Obviously a back up camera is standard but 2 m9,s is pricey by any standards.

Richard
 
eleskin said:
"DEMAND FOR LEICA'S M9 CAMERA IS OUTSTRIPPING SUPPLY AS CUSTOMERS - INCLUDING PROFESSIONALS TRADING IN THEIR DSLR's -SNAP UP THE FULL FRAME CAMERA WITHIN MINUTES OF WEDNESDAY'S LAUNCH" AMATEUR PHOTOGRAPHER UK

YYYYYEEEEESSSSSS!!!! I AM GLOATING!!!!

THIS IS INCREDIBLE!!! THERE WILL BE DEPRESSION AT THE NIKON AND CANON BOOTHS!!!

I WAS RIGHT!!!
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I highly doubt this. the Nikon and Canon are very reliable cameras. I have a D700 and trust it very much, yes its heavier and bigger than an M9. I would not count on a Leica Digital camera, its a special tool but can never replace a Canon or a Nikon in performance, features and all around flexibility. A D700 and the best lens a 24-70 2.8 will run you about $3700, a little more than half the price of an M9.
 
I have taken quite a few photos at the M9 launch event, the M9 highlight handling fall short of my expectation, I will definitely holding on my M8.2 until I see better evidence of the contrast exhibited on the tests that I've got on the M9. My first thought was that I didn't feel I was shooting with a full frame camera, as the M9 operates almost exactly the same as the M8, since I have plenty of lenses to choose from, the angle of view was never the issue. What bugs me is the strong contrast on the M9, which causes lag of highlight and shadow detail is so that I don't feel that I can obtain the same feel as I can with the M8 or 8.2.

The same characteristics were also seen at the dpreview M9 samples where the highlights were blown out and shadow lacking detail.

I would like to hear comment from other here whom has the same experience.
 
parsec1 said:
Just ordered 3 bodies and 4 new lenses. Hope to get them before Christmas ( well at least one)

Other collegues have ordered another 9 that I know of.

Be damn glad to leave my Nikon D slr 'Lumps' and huge lenses for someone else to lug about.

What a relief and if it goes as well as it looks what a wonderful drive is to come.
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I would advice you to test out the file from the M9 before taken the jump, I'm not convinced by what I've seen so far, reckon the contrast is an issue, simple too high and lack detail both in highlight and in shadow. I'll keep my M8.2 and will never sell my D3 or D700, as the feel and quality in the processed RAW is what photography is all about.
 
SixPM said:
I would advice you to test out the file from the M9 before taken the jump, I'm not convinced by what I've seen so far, reckon the contrast is an issue, simple too high and lack detail both in highlight and in shadow. I'll keep my M8.2 and will never sell my D3 or D700, as the feel and quality in the processed RAW is what photography is all about.
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Say again, RAW is what photography it is all about ? !!!
There you go and I have thought for the last 35 years it was about producing an image.

My M9s when they get to me will provide more help to enable me to do that than half a ton of DSLR s and lenses lugged about through the bush in Africa and I am certain they will provide the right sort of images that my 2 D3s and D700 do now as I say without the weight and size which is so important . Did you see the size comparisons between the Canon 50 and 40mm Voigtlander not to mention the weight.
I can only think of one reason 'the bigger the better' although there are some who feel that the way its used is far more important.
When I was shooting with a couple of contax G2s on the Essex coast a couple of years ago two Gentlemen approached me with the usual Chunk Dslrs and long lenses sticking out of their guts and said "Wow thats a couple of 'oldies' you got there ", I replied " yes" as I couldn't be bothered to say anything to them and they both 'promenaded' along their way.
One even stopped a few yards away and heaved his DLSR up to his eye and zoomed his 100 to 400 zoom on a seagull which turned and flew away probably fed up with having its picture taken again. Meanwhile a dozen fire crew were saving the lives of two boys on the beach which both of these 'gentlemen' had ignored or more likely hadn't even seen. Maybe they didn't care and were just taking the dogs and the dslrs 'out for a walk' ...............
 
parsec1 said:
Say again, RAW is what photography it is all about ? !!!
There you go and I have thought for the last 35 years it was about producing an image.

My M9s when they get to me will provide more help to enable me to do that than half a ton of DSLR s and lenses lugged about through the bush in Africa and I am certain they will provide the right sort of images that my 2 D3s and D700 do now as I say without the weight and size which is so important . Did you see the size comparisons between the Canon 50 and 40mm Voigtlander not to mention the weight.
I can only think of one reason 'the bigger the better' although there are some who feel that the way its used is far more important.
When I was shooting with a couple of contax G2s on the Essex coast a couple of years ago two Gentlemen approached me with the usual Chunk Dslrs and long lenses sticking out of their guts and said "Wow thats a couple of 'oldies' you got there ", I replied " yes" as I couldn't be bothered to say anything to them and they both 'promenaded' along their way.
One even stopped a few yards away and heaved his DLSR up to his eye and zoomed his 100 to 400 zoom on a seagull which turned and flew away probably fed up with having its picture taken again. Meanwhile a dozen fire crew were saving the lives of two boys on the beach which both of these 'gentlemen' had ignored or more likely hadn't even seen. Maybe they didn't care and were just taking the dogs and the dslrs 'out for a walk' ...............
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Sorry, I should add 'digital' after RAW processing. That said I still have reservation with the image quality coming from the M9 at it's present incarnation.
 
parsec1 said:
Say again, RAW is what photography it is all about ? !!!
There you go and I have thought for the last 35 years it was about producing an image.

My M9s when they get to me will provide more help to enable me to do that than half a ton of DSLR s and lenses lugged about through the bush in Africa and I am certain they will provide the right sort of images that my 2 D3s and D700 do now as I say without the weight and size which is so important . Did you see the size comparisons between the Canon 50 and 40mm Voigtlander not to mention the weight.
I can only think of one reason 'the bigger the better' although there are some who feel that the way its used is far more important.
When I was shooting with a couple of contax G2s on the Essex coast a couple of years ago two Gentlemen approached me with the usual Chunk Dslrs and long lenses sticking out of their guts and said "Wow thats a couple of 'oldies' you got there ", I replied " yes" as I couldn't be bothered to say anything to them and they both 'promenaded' along their way.
One even stopped a few yards away and heaved his DLSR up to his eye and zoomed his 100 to 400 zoom on a seagull which turned and flew away probably fed up with having its picture taken again. Meanwhile a dozen fire crew were saving the lives of two boys on the beach which both of these 'gentlemen' had ignored or more likely hadn't even seen. Maybe they didn't care and were just taking the dogs and the dslrs 'out for a walk' ...............
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Sorry, I should add 'digital' after RAW processing. That said I still have reservation with the image quality coming from the M9 at it's present incarnation.
 
I'd sure rather have that tank of a D3 and a long zoom when I'm photographing a charging bull elephant there in Africa. An M9 and a 35 1.4 just don't seem to be the correct tools. 🙂

Parsec1, what kind of photography do you do?
 
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parsec1 said:
Say again, RAW is what photography it is all about ? !!!
There you go and I have thought for the last 35 years it was about producing an image.

My M9s when they get to me will provide more help to enable me to do that than half a ton of DSLR s and lenses lugged about through the bush in Africa and I am certain they will provide the right sort of images that my 2 D3s and D700 do now as I say without the weight and size which is so important . Did you see the size comparisons between the Canon 50 and 40mm Voigtlander not to mention the weight.
I can only think of one reason 'the bigger the better' although there are some who feel that the way its used is far more important.
When I was shooting with a couple of contax G2s on the Essex coast a couple of years ago two Gentlemen approached me with the usual Chunk Dslrs and long lenses sticking out of their guts and said "Wow thats a couple of 'oldies' you got there ", I replied " yes" as I couldn't be bothered to say anything to them and they both 'promenaded' along their way.
One even stopped a few yards away and heaved his DLSR up to his eye and zoomed his 100 to 400 zoom on a seagull which turned and flew away probably fed up with having its picture taken again. Meanwhile a dozen fire crew were saving the lives of two boys on the beach which both of these 'gentlemen' had ignored or more likely hadn't even seen. Maybe they didn't care and were just taking the dogs and the dslrs 'out for a walk' ...............
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Ok so you have ordered 2 M9's without even trying them and before the emergence of any objective tests and in full knowledge that the initial findings are inconclusive in terms of corner sharpness, image noise and TTL flash capability. Leica need people like you. Good luck with it.

Richard
 
Ok taken as read but we all have different reservations about our cameras. I use mine mostly for publication so from what I have seen of them they will be more than good enough compared to the M8. Anyway we shall see although I don't see an M9-2 produced as fast as the M8-2 to save Leica from embarrassment .
I think Leica were overwhelmed by those that have never used Ms for the purpose they were associated with from the very start of 35mm photography by those that never used them.
My son shoots landscapes on 5x4 or 10x8 and uses film although he has Nikon digi but cannot afford the the fortune mega mortgage needed to do the same on a 5x4 or 10x8 digital but exhibits and sells well enough to earn a living and has been featured in AP quite a few times. He wants a Leica M but doesen't demand a do everything in one camera and certainly would not use it for 'landscapes' or 'advertising', something they were never designed for. .
Regards
P
 
Pickett Wilson said:
I'd sure rather have that tank of a D3 and a long zoom when I'm photographing a charging bull elephant there in Africa. An M9 and a 35 1.4 just don't seem to be the correct tools. 🙂

Parsec1, what kind of photography do you do?
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Besides the odd conflict I photograph the disperate people of Africa and other places and leave the 'wildlife' to experts who know intimatley how .

When people ask me 'what sort of equipment they need to take on their once in a lifetime safari holiday to photograph Africas Elephants' I say don't bother...buy the postcards shot by pro wildlife photographers...you will be less dissapointed.

BTW I have been chased by some large animals where no camera would have been as usefull as a decent rifle. LOL
Regards
P
 
Richard Marks said:
Ok so you have ordered 2 M9's without even trying them and before the emergence of any objective tests and in full knowledge that the initial findings are inconclusive in terms of corner sharpness, image noise and TTL flash capability. Leica need people like you. Good luck with it.

Richard
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Richard,
Firstly I'm told I wont get mine until Christmas so there's time yet but secondly if as I am told Leica has listened to those that use Leica's for what they designed for then I should have little worry having been a Leica user and for a long time. But I have Nikon Ds and Member of NPU as it is now for 35 years and also Canons F1s etc but not an EOS D yet although many of my collegues use them but are switching over to D3s when their time to change comes around

Regards
P
 
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