Pickett Wilson
Veteran
Actually, Jaapv, the 20,000 is the high end of what I've read. Cameraquest said 14,000 late last year, I believe it was. And that was for the whole run. Where are you getting production figures?
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
Not difficult to calculate. 20.000 first year (Leica information) slowly declining to the introduction of the M8.2 which gave a boost - 50.000 is a reasonable ball-park figure for those three years. Even if it were a low 30.000 it would be pretty good going for Leica.
Did you know that Leica had an order backlog of 8000 lenses in 2007 - a figure that had never been so high in the entire history of the company-, solely due to the high sales of M8 cameras?
Now that we are on the subject, the sales of cameras to professionals have been but a marginal business for Leica during the entire history of the company. The number of professionals is simply too low to make much of a turnover, and after the late sixties the proportion has been even lower. With the M camera the target customer is the advanced amateur. That is not to say that there are not some professionals making good use, and that Leica is not pleased to sell to them - it is good marketing, there are plenty of wannabees that want to be mistaken for a Time-Life staff photographer.
Did you know that Leica had an order backlog of 8000 lenses in 2007 - a figure that had never been so high in the entire history of the company-, solely due to the high sales of M8 cameras?
Now that we are on the subject, the sales of cameras to professionals have been but a marginal business for Leica during the entire history of the company. The number of professionals is simply too low to make much of a turnover, and after the late sixties the proportion has been even lower. With the M camera the target customer is the advanced amateur. That is not to say that there are not some professionals making good use, and that Leica is not pleased to sell to them - it is good marketing, there are plenty of wannabees that want to be mistaken for a Time-Life staff photographer.
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Richard Marks
Rexel
Dear JAAP
With all that good selling, and still made a loss for 2008 surely it is time to worry?
Richard
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
Richard, with R&D for the M9, S2 and X1 and a slew of new lenses eating into the gross, a declining M8, dying R system, failed Digilux 3, a company that was being restructured, and tooling cost writeoffs for digital technology amongst other things, it is a miracle they managed to keep the company afloat. No doubt the decent sales of the M8, lenses and sports optics helped Dr. Kaufmann to keep focussed on the end of the tunnel.
Richard Marks
Rexel
I hope they are not relying on S2 sales. 'Afloat' would not be my first choice of adjective!
Richard
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
Well - it is going a camera that is so watertight that it will be submersible - as it is there seems to be quite some interest. I heard of dealers with firm orders running into the double digits. Anyway, Leica are not looking to selling more than a few dozen a month.
ScottyGraham
Newbie
Hey guys....this is my first post in this forum. I read all four pages of this thread with great interest as I am about to take the deep financial plunge and get myself the new Leica M9. I am a professional photographer, but I make my living teaching photography, and not by making images, thankfully.
The original question on this thread had to deal with ditching our SLR cameras for the M9. I am one of those guys that wants a new toy. I will keep my D300 for the small amount of sports photography that I do, and for the play photos and other theatre stuff I shoot at school (I am a High School teacher at Jakarta International School), and for my underwater photography (my passion)
...but I REALLY want the M9 for my personal projects and for traveling. I don't know about you, but I am really sick of lugging all my SLR equipment with me when I travel, and I travel a great deal. I feel the M9 would meet my needs nicely in this regard. I know it is a VERY expensive toy, but what the hell? We only live once...might as well get the best stuff for the things we enjoy the most in this life, right?? I don't want to find myself in heaven punching myself for not buying the Leica when I had the chance...LOL.
My question to you guys...for those of you that have both systems (SLR AND the Leica M), which camera do you find you turn to most of the time? Do you find yourself leaving the SLR behind or does your M9 stay at home most of the time??...For those of you that sold all your SLR equipment for the Leica M9, do you have any regrets??
The original question on this thread had to deal with ditching our SLR cameras for the M9. I am one of those guys that wants a new toy. I will keep my D300 for the small amount of sports photography that I do, and for the play photos and other theatre stuff I shoot at school (I am a High School teacher at Jakarta International School), and for my underwater photography (my passion)
...but I REALLY want the M9 for my personal projects and for traveling. I don't know about you, but I am really sick of lugging all my SLR equipment with me when I travel, and I travel a great deal. I feel the M9 would meet my needs nicely in this regard. I know it is a VERY expensive toy, but what the hell? We only live once...might as well get the best stuff for the things we enjoy the most in this life, right?? I don't want to find myself in heaven punching myself for not buying the Leica when I had the chance...LOL.
My question to you guys...for those of you that have both systems (SLR AND the Leica M), which camera do you find you turn to most of the time? Do you find yourself leaving the SLR behind or does your M9 stay at home most of the time??...For those of you that sold all your SLR equipment for the Leica M9, do you have any regrets??
Chris101
summicronia
I don't think they allow you to punch yourself in heaven Scotty.
ScottyGraham
Newbie
....unless God uses a Leica...and he probably does...with a Noctilux 50mm F/0.95 ASPH...
Pickett Wilson
Veteran
Does Freestyle ship to heaven? Does UPS deliver there? These are important questions.
bene
Established
hi scotty!
The world is god's studio. Yea he will definitely get the M9 =) all the light and shadow he can have...
The rangefinder is just different. You give up a lot of bells and whistles for quietness, small size and the best optics. Your style will change. It will slow down. at least that is how I feel.
The M9 is a wild horse. an SLR like D700 /d3 etc is a beast broken and chained easy to wield.
The noctilux is big fyi not something to use at dinner. make the leicas look like like a weapon. dSLR looks like shotgun or sniper rifles...
The world is god's studio. Yea he will definitely get the M9 =) all the light and shadow he can have...
The rangefinder is just different. You give up a lot of bells and whistles for quietness, small size and the best optics. Your style will change. It will slow down. at least that is how I feel.
The M9 is a wild horse. an SLR like D700 /d3 etc is a beast broken and chained easy to wield.
The noctilux is big fyi not something to use at dinner. make the leicas look like like a weapon. dSLR looks like shotgun or sniper rifles...
emraphoto
Veteran
I sold all my dlsr gear and went back to leica's (and mamiya 7's). I don't shoot sports or fellas 100 yards away with guns so it hasn't hampered my carreer so far.
Al Kaplan
Veteran
I shot a friend's DSLR a couple of times at parties. Everybody drives you bonkers wanting to see the pictures on the screen and can't believe that l never do.
Tuolumne
Veteran
I am ditching my RF gear and moving on to m4/3rds and P&S digital. The Lumix G1 is my preferred camera now. And I don't care if you can tell the difference between G1 photos and M9 photos. That's not why I take photos. Pixel peeping and photo comparing is not what normal people do.
/T
/T
wgerrard
Veteran
I'm sorta thinking about doing that, too. Want to sit back for some time and see what new cameras hit the market, though.
So, I'm curious about what motivated you to go in that direction. Any single tipping point?
Roger Hicks
Veteran
No contest. Leica M for the last 20 years or so. I sometimes carry one SLR for long lenses.
Cheers,
R.
freeranger
Well-known
ScottyGraham
Newbie
What you say here makes a lot of sense, and is actually a good thing, and something I want...I don't mind one bit giving up a lot of bells and whistles for quietness, small size and the best optics. I am looking to change my style, and to challenge myself in photography. The "wild horse" is just the tool I am looking for.
Pickett Wilson
Veteran
My feeling is, if you can afford a $7,000 camera, buy it. It doesn't matter a whit if it is a good camera, a bad camera or an indifferent one. It doesn't even matter whether it's the right camera. Just buy it! M9's are only temporarily rare (unless Leica somehow disappears). But right now, you can buy an M9, use it for several months, and still get most, if not more, of your money back. Just do it.
bene
Established
M9 is a good camera. Good wedding camera used in the right hands in the wrong hands.... wild horse kick you in the butt ... If you order one now, 6 week waiting time and 2 months of testing you still can get the money back .
Scotty grab the M9 and never look back. Life is short not too much time left.
Start using before your eyes gives up on you.
Anyway I saw the M9 yesterday. brilliantly finished.
Shutter in discrete mode is loud due to the rewinding part. but when the shutter goes off it sound like the M7. So take a shot button held down move away from subject and release.