raid
Dad Photographer
It is the truth that I do not feel I am ready to pick between any camera now. Maybe this is good for me.
Leica M9P, M9M, or SL?
- Thread starter raid
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Calzone
Gear Whore #1
Raid,
So much obsessive thinking. LOL.
You should come to a NYC Meet-Up. Pretty much a support group for much of our behaviors.
We are so predictable. LOL.
But everyone respectfully is different.
One thought though is that the SL2 is "future proofed" in another way: autofocus when our eyes deteriorate with age.
In my case, I'm a CF. I don't own a car and I walk to work to save $2.75 each way on the Metrocard fare. I just saved $31.40 buying a knapsack of body lotion and olive oil using coupons at Bed Bath and Beyond. The folks in my building throw them away by the mailbox. Used 3 $10.00 off coupons and 20% off any single item. This is how I afford my camera addiction. Also know I spend lots on printing also.
Know that I still own my MM that I bought over 7 years ago. It is still a great camera, warts and all. Never got stale, and I still love it.
The CF factor also favors the SL. In a way it is kinda like a SUV because it offers flexibility to use legacy glass. I know not an M, but with its own versatility. Know that when I get a SL2 that I'll still keep my SL because it is still a great camera. It also makes me happy that the SL and SL2 both use the same battery as a Q2. It makes me unhappy that spare batteries cost $250.00. Ouch.
As a friend I would say you have to see if the EVF works for you. Some people here complain of headaches and get sea sick, but there are some advantages. With the SL I suggest try before you buy. Everybody is different.
I would say the APO fast primes is enough alone to cause "SL2 Disease."
This expression is a continuation and expansion of the expression "Linhof Disease" that the CDC has determined originated by Christian from the NYC Meet-Up. Joe from the NYC Meet-Up also has Linhof Disease.
Cal
Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
Bill Blackwell
Leica M Shooter
From your list I'd take the M9-P, but only if the sensor has been replaced by Leica. The M9 I owned produced far better color compared to any digital Leica I've owned since.
However, if you're into B&W, my M-P 240 (which can be had within ~10% in excess of your budget) produced better B&W (converted in PS via Nik) than my M9M.
Leica M9, 50mm Asph Summilux
JeffS7444
Well-known
I've found that the trick to any finder equipped with focus control is to adjust it when your eyes are relaxed and focused at infnity. This is true for binoculars too.
Bill Blackwell
Leica M Shooter
I'm not sure how YOU would define "elegant," but I would say, no - I would not consider the M240 "elegant." The M-P 240 comes close, but still too "fat" to be considered elegant.
In fact I wouldn't consider an M9 elegant either.
Now the M10-P? That's elegant (slim as a film M, a little lighter, and ultra quiet)!
jszokoli
Well-known
Buy the Monochrom
Buy the Monochrom
Raid,
I would say the Monochrom. M9's and it's variants are common, and I think are not holding their value that well right now. Same for the SL, or for that mater the SL2 that Cal is in love with... Don't tell Cal but those mirrorless Leica's seem to be even worse and have a depreciation curve more like standard DSLR's. I purchased my Monochrom used 3-4 years ago and on the used market it's totally holding it's value. Plus it's a really great camera, just ask Cal.
Joe
Buy the Monochrom
Raid,
I would say the Monochrom. M9's and it's variants are common, and I think are not holding their value that well right now. Same for the SL, or for that mater the SL2 that Cal is in love with... Don't tell Cal but those mirrorless Leica's seem to be even worse and have a depreciation curve more like standard DSLR's. I purchased my Monochrom used 3-4 years ago and on the used market it's totally holding it's value. Plus it's a really great camera, just ask Cal.
Joe
raid
Dad Photographer
I know that Leica is aware of the quick depreciation of the SL even before the SL2 was announced.
Both cameras are similar to DSLR cameras.
Both cameras are similar to DSLR cameras.
2wenty
Well-known
Ive used the M9P, 240, SL, M10, and Q, no other camera takes photos like the M9. I tried them all and compared them to each other to see what I like best and I own the M9P now.
Its the only camera I consider being a film camera thats digital. If you compare it to kodachrome photos its damn near the same, which makes sense because Kodak designed the sensor to look like it. Even the way the ISO acts is same as film.
The M9P with the 50 lux asph is just insane. Click on my instagram day link in the profile. A lot of photos are with that combo. Just look for the #leicam9p hash tag.
The only thing I don't like too much about the M9P (M9) is the black and whites. Just something about that sensor where is doesn't come out to my liking. The 240 is awesome for BW as is all the others.
Its the only camera I consider being a film camera thats digital. If you compare it to kodachrome photos its damn near the same, which makes sense because Kodak designed the sensor to look like it. Even the way the ISO acts is same as film.
The M9P with the 50 lux asph is just insane. Click on my instagram day link in the profile. A lot of photos are with that combo. Just look for the #leicam9p hash tag.
The only thing I don't like too much about the M9P (M9) is the black and whites. Just something about that sensor where is doesn't come out to my liking. The 240 is awesome for BW as is all the others.
raid
Dad Photographer
I have an M8 and an M9, and I have used an M240 for 8 months.
The M9 can produce beautiful images. I agree.
The M9 can produce beautiful images. I agree.
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
Joe,
No denying that SL's and likely SL2's depreciate at an accelerated level.
For investment purchases I have other cameras that could be defined as a store of value as "hard assets."
I do think the MM already is a bit of a cult camera. It has a very strong and loyal fan base. Warts and all it has its destinctive rendering, and is likely the most basic digital camera as well as historically the first B&W only digital camera. I remember when the MM was first rumored, and a poster here on RFF said, "It is the dumbest idea ever." Then there was all the usual Leica haters. LOL.
The MM has "SMUT Factor." LOL. When Willie and others pointed out the higher resolution due to the lack of Bayer Filter Array things got interesting.
Then the Leica haters complained it was too expensive. Pretty obvious the Leica envy, and the sense of entitlement that came from people I actually knew who both happened to work at B&H. Both young people with a sense of entitlement that accused me of being a "rich dentist," and calling me a not serious photographer. Jerks.
The MM with a replaced sensor is a camera I think I could even speculate on, buying a second one, and just sit on it as if a 2 ounce ingot of .9999 gold (about $3K). Think about it: it is a novel CCD camera; the first B&W only digital camera; it is simple and basic and most like a film camera.
I can't think of another digital camera I might rate with my "Bankster" breeding that will hold value or even appreciate at this point.
Cal
robert blu
quiet photographer
Raid, if you go for the MM I'll be envious 🙂
robert
robert
Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
Some reality check with Cal. Tamarkin has m9m for 3K with new sensor and one year warranty.
Here is no digital cult cameras, just fans. Most of them are “I must have latest and greatest” kind.
Here is no digital cult cameras, just fans. Most of them are “I must have latest and greatest” kind.
Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
M9 sensor reminds me e6 scans. I also like m240 bw, but m9m is the only camera with very sharp images, it seems.
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
Ko.Fe.
At one time the MM was the latest and greatest. LOL.
In reality it is rather primitive with no frills. The Leica haters speak the truth that it doesn't do video, does not have liveview, is slow, jams up if used in continuios, has a crappy low res screen, has not good high ISO performance...
But basically out of all digital cameras is there a more primitive camera out there that provides the experience of shooting a film camera? I think more and more fans will happen in the future due to this factor.
Also it is a badge of honor also to own, shoot and make great images with such camera. One is its no frills simplicity, but I would also argue that due to the CCD sensor compounded by being a monochrom camera that it requires even more precision than say shooting a CMOS sensored color digital camera. You really have to up your game, it requires higher skill to get the most, and is the most unforgiving digital camera that I know of.
May just be a group of loyal fans now, but why would someone want a seven year old camera if they want the "latest and greatest." What I'm saying is just the opposite.
It becomes a matter of time when a fan base becomes a cult following that I will concede.
Cal
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
Raid,
For "Full-Disclosure" are you up to date on the Leica Rumors?
Suggested a M-EVF, 24 MP modeled after a M240.
M11 possible 2020.
M10X (47 MP???) X is for xtra resolution.
A 35mm Noctilux.
Of course new releases have impacts on used prices.
Cal
For "Full-Disclosure" are you up to date on the Leica Rumors?
Suggested a M-EVF, 24 MP modeled after a M240.
M11 possible 2020.
M10X (47 MP???) X is for xtra resolution.
A 35mm Noctilux.
Of course new releases have impacts on used prices.
Cal
robert blu
quiet photographer
Rais, how I know your shooting style the M cameras are ideal for you, in this case I would sell one of your Ms and go for one of the M10.
But I can understand sometimes it is nice to try somethong different nothiung wrong with this. Why do not ypou think out of the box and go for the CL ? For what I read it could be an excellent complement to your M8/9 .
And maybe your daughters would appreciate very much if you buy a special one, like this one.
A Paul Smith edition is so special...mucho fashion...we only live once 🙂
PS: not sure if our friend Cal would agree...
But I can understand sometimes it is nice to try somethong different nothiung wrong with this. Why do not ypou think out of the box and go for the CL ? For what I read it could be an excellent complement to your M8/9 .
And maybe your daughters would appreciate very much if you buy a special one, like this one.
A Paul Smith edition is so special...mucho fashion...we only live once 🙂
PS: not sure if our friend Cal would agree...
raid
Dad Photographer
Do you mean the original MM or a new MM that may/will be introduced, Robert?
raid
Dad Photographer
WOW!
"At a price of $3,995, the Leica CL ‘Edition Paul Smith’ is only a slight premium over a stock Leica CLStarter Bundle, which includes the same 18mm lens. For $800 more, the special edition comes with the exclusive rope strap and lens cloth, and is limited to just 900 pieces worldwide."
Is it $1000 more costly to get the Paul Smith ed versus the regular CL?
I don't know, Robert, but I may rather get an M10. Or SL 🙂
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
Robert,
Kinda funny the conspiring going on. I own a MM (for clarity first version Monochrom), a SL and also a sneaky CL.
Pretty much no buyers remorse on any of these digital cameras.
BTW I think that 28/5.6 you own would love the CL. Pretty much a 42mm FOV with the crop factor and so small. I love-love the simple three button interface.
Generally I use spot metering and use the left knob which I have set up for exposure offset. Much quicker than manual exposure. The layout of the controls makes this a fast camera.
The bad of the CL is not so great a battery life, as the battery is small, but there is an easy workaround and that is turn off the camera and don't "cruise" around with the camera on and not use it. It is good to know that when you turn the camera on by the time you lift it too your eye it is good-to-go.
In this regard my SL is slow. It takes a while to spool up. Full-Disclosure.
My friend John came up with a term, "Digital Barnack," and it acurately describes a digital camera smaller than a M.
Cal
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