Leica MP and M7, Ten years on

[Harry Lime]

Perhaps you used a poor choice of words when you originally referred to the M7 AE lock as a design flaw. Maybe the debate should be centered around good design and bad design, something that's clearly subjective.

Did Leica design and implement a multi-shot AE lock for the M7? If not, the current AE lock seems like a design feature, a lot like the various features found on the M2, M3 and V35. The M7 AE lock is only truly flawed if you intend to use it in a way it wasn't designed to be used in.

Leica pushes the M7 as their documentary camera for capturing fast moving action (thanks to the miracle of AE). As someone who's owned an M7 since 2006 and has shot documentary and street photography for much longer than that, I can tell you first hand that unless you want to grab a single shot it's a pretty bad design for its intended market. For the most part people shooting documentary, news and action do not take single shots.

 

[Pioneer]

Flaw was probably a bit strong. Harry's description is more accurate. To be truthful I rarely have need to use either system since I very, very rarely use the auto exposure system on either camera. But, when I do, I actually find the lock on the ZI to be more useful.

 

[kingqueenknave]

Leica pushes the M7 as their documentary camera for capturing fast moving action (thanks to the miracle of AE). As someone who's owned an M7 since 2006 and has shot documentary and street photography for much longer than that, I can tell you first hand that unless you want to grab a single shot it's a pretty bad design for it's intended market. For the most part people shooting documentary, news and action do not take single shots.

A lot of them don't focus manually either, or shoot film, or use rangefinders.

 

[kingqueenknave]

Flaw was probably a bit strong. Harry's description is more accurate. To be truthful I rarely have need to use either system since I very, very rarely use the auto exposure system on either camera. But, when I do, I actually find the lock on the ZI to be more useful.

Harry's original description was "flawed."

 

[Harry Lime]

A lot of them don't focus manually either, or shoot film, or use rangefinders.

Back when the M7 came out digital had not completely pushed out film for news.

Many people still shoot film for longterm projects like documentaries.

 

[Harry Lime]

Harry's original description was "flawed."

And I stand by that. It's a camera, not your girlfriend or boyfriend. There is no offense in calling an inanimate object 'flawed'.

 

[Robert Lai]

Meethinks Harry Lime doth protest too much. BTW - didn't Harry Lime get shot and killed in a Vienna sewer?

I use a Leica M7 with motor M to take pictures of my son running around. If I really want to lock in an exposure setting, I just shift the shutter speed dial to the setting I want and blast away.

I have the exposure lock button on my Nikon F3 and I just never use it, because it's a pain to hold it in place for many exposures. It's easier to just go into manual mode. Actually, it's harder with the F3 because of the shutter dial lock. With the M7, it is easy enough to rotate the shutter dial off auto. If they gave me an exposure lock button, I wouldn't use it anyway. I like it the way Leica made it.

 

[Harry Lime]

Meethinks Harry Lime doth protest too much. BTW - didn't Harry Lime get shot and killed in a Vienna sewer?

Well, he was supposedly also buried in a Viennese cemetery and we all know how that turned out.

I use a Leica M7 with motor M to take pictures of my son running around. If I really want to lock in an exposure setting, I just shift the shutter speed dial to the setting I want and blast away.

The point is that you are losing moments, while you switch over in to manual mode instead of using the AE.

I have the exposure lock button on my Nikon F3 and I just never use it, because it's a pain to hold it in place for many exposures. It's easier to just go into manual mode. Actually, it's harder with the F3 because of the shutter dial lock. With the M7, it is easy enough to rotate the shutter dial off auto.

The F3 is one of my main SLR bodies and I agree. The design of the AE lock button on the F3 is flawed and because of that I don't use it. And I will go as far as saying that we are not alone in that opinion.

If they gave me an exposure lock button, I wouldn't use it anyway. I like it the way Leica made it.

Of course you wouldn't.

 

[Pioneer]

Call it flawed or bad design choice it still comes out the same. Leica's design choices are oftentimes very odd. I do feel that Leica continues in spite of their choices, not because of them. I enjoy using my M Leicas, but just because Leica made the choice to do something a certain way still does not make it the best way.

But, to give them credit, at least they have stayed the course with their basic rangefinder design. Without that single mindedness we would not be able to enjoy the digital Ms alongside the film Ms as we do today.

 

[jonmanjiro]

I don't see how the FM3a gets this wrong? Where else would you put the AE-lock button?

Oh I don't know, how about in the self timer like the FE (that one is in a handy position for my fingers), or in the shutter button like the M7? 🙂

 

[segedi]

Back to relevancy...
I sold a typ 240 and use my m7 alc for color work. The Monochrom for B&W which I'm doing a fair amount of.

I like the DX reader in the M7. I can rarely remember what film I have in the camera since their' snow idiot window reminding me.

Had an MP but like the option of AE better. And the AE is quite good and although it apparently doesn't work for everyone, the implementation of AE lock works well for me and how I shoot.

If you have an MP and hate the rewind mechanism, I do suggest the MP-Winder. Best accessory ever.

For me, film is still relevant so the M7 and MP are still relevant.

 

[sc_rufctr]

Back to relevancy...
Snip...

For me, film is still relevant so the M7 and MP are still relevant.

And that's it. As long as we can buy and process film they will be relevant.

So what's next? I doubt Leica will ever release a new film camera...
I wonderful what things will be like in another 10 years.

 

[semi-ambivalent]

And that's it. As long as we can buy and process film they will be relevant.

Look at e.g. Bresson's images. A lot of them leave much to be desired technically. (No flames, that's not the point here.) Chalk it up to the quality of emulsions available at the time. There are enough people shooting film now and there always will be enough in the future to support a single company manufacturing even a single crappy emulsion that is no worse than those used to produce some of the greatest images ever made by 35mm cameras.
So don't do the 'As long as...' thing; things are going to be fine. 🙂

BTW, I say this but I also believe it, enough to have an MP ALC on order even now.

 

[mansio]

currently using a m5, if i were to pick up another film leica as main it's a toss between another m5 or mp

as for backup i am open to m6 or m7 or hexar rf

i much prefer the needle action over >.<

 

[sc_rufctr]

I do like the M5 with the needle meter but I'm currently looking at an MP Classic (no meter) locally.

Beautifully simple but a built in light meter is so hard to resist. Ohhhh when will it ever end?

 

[Roger Hicks]

. . . there always will be enough in the future to support a single company manufacturing even a single crappy emulsion that is no worse than those used to produce some of the greatest images ever made by 35mm cameras. . .

This is likewise my suspicion. But I think there'll still be good film (Ilford) for decades yet, even if we do all have to switch to Svema in the 22nd century.

Cheers,

R.

 

[HHPhoto]

This is likewise my suspicion. But I think there'll still be good film (Ilford) for decades yet, even if we do all have to switch to Svema in the 22nd century.

Cheers,

R.

+1.
I well remember the Photokina fair in 2002:
All the market "experts" have said that film will be completely dead in 2010.
They also said that instant film will be the first film type which will die, and that instant film will be dead before 2010.

Now we are at the end of 2013.
All film types are still there.
Even some discontinued formats are available again, like 110.
Sometimes even new films are introduced, like Adox Silvermax and CHS 100 II.
Fuji has just introduced a new Instax instant film camera.
Fuji / CV introduced two medium format film cameras some time ago.
Impossible introduced the instant film lab just recently. They have announced that they are working on a new camera for their films.
Ilford introduced three pinhole cameras over the last three years.
Some kickstarter projects with new cameras for film have had successful funding (Travelwide, Ondu).

Instant films, both Instax and Impossible films, have increasing sales, with growth rates of 20-25% p.a..
Digital compacts camera sales are in a free fall, with 50% decline each year.
DSLR sales are down with about 20% the last two years.

Cheers, Jan

 

[mrksgrn]

Relevant yes ... but at $5000 new you'd have to be very keen considering what you can probably buy used for that amount of cash.

I was seriously ogling the silver MP that jonmanjiro had in the classifieds for $2500 and was actually very tempted.

Sorry 😀😀