Ken Ford
Refuses to suffer fools
branki said:
I had one for several years. It's a great camera, but nowhere near the build quality of a Leica SM body.
cmedin
Well-known
The P looks better and better. The only bummer is that there seems to be some serious disagreement on collapsing lenses. It'd be nice to stick an I-22 or something on there, but everything I read is very conflicting opinions/experiences on what works and what doesn't.
alternatve
Well-known
If you are considering a P, you might want to consider a Canon 7 as well. It's a better camera then the P and has multiple framelines. It has a coupled meter as well, but it's usually down, so I wouldn't bother with it.
Samuel
Samuel
Sonnar2
Well-known
You want a Leica, buy a Leica III. If you want a lookalike-Leica buy a FED. If you want the best screwmount user of the 50's, buy a Canon P, or a 7 (best for the buck). The P was my first Rangefinder camera, starting of a desease...
ERV
Well-known
A Leica IIc or f or IIIc is a good starting point.
I have a IIc that I take on every trip along with its big sisters, my M bodies. I also suggest Youxin Ye for a CLA and prism replacement if you need it. He's fast and very reasonable. You can always find TM bodies on ebay, there are several reputable sellers who always have them listed. I also agree with a Russian lens or a 50mm summicron if you want to spent a little more. Fedka is a reliable Russian camera dealer in NYC.
I had a Bessa T and although it has a light meter and easier film loading, it doesn't compare to a working thread mount Leica.
I have a IIc that I take on every trip along with its big sisters, my M bodies. I also suggest Youxin Ye for a CLA and prism replacement if you need it. He's fast and very reasonable. You can always find TM bodies on ebay, there are several reputable sellers who always have them listed. I also agree with a Russian lens or a 50mm summicron if you want to spent a little more. Fedka is a reliable Russian camera dealer in NYC.
I had a Bessa T and although it has a light meter and easier film loading, it doesn't compare to a working thread mount Leica.
cmedin
Well-known
Right now I'm looking at both a II/III and a P. The P does seem like a hell of a camera, and very Leica-like. I'm not looking for the Leica NAME, I'm looking for that solid quality feel and function, and from what I hear it sounds like the Canon P is just as finely made a machine, with some perks.
edit: I initially had Leica in mind since I wasn't aware of the Canons, always thought they were more like the Hi-Matics or Canonets.
edit: I initially had Leica in mind since I wasn't aware of the Canons, always thought they were more like the Hi-Matics or Canonets.
Last edited:
LeicaTom
Watch that step!
If you want a Leica.......buy a Leica
I cut my collecting and shooting teeth on a 1939 IIIa all the way back in like 1989, the IIIa is still the BEST way to start the experience of the RANGEFINDER way of shooting, you can find a clean one for under $400 with case and try for a uncoated Summitar lens, my 1939 was the "bomb" it`s one of the few cameras I regret selling, while it shot so well and was so much fun to use.....it was interesting when I moved up to IIIC`s and IIIF`s to shoot with, but I always went back to play with the uncoated Summitar and IIIa for available light and slide film shots
Summar`s a great little lens too, will give that "Leica Glow" with the blk n wht photos
Shop around there`s lot`s of IIIa`s out there, buy the one that`s in tip top shape, even wouldn`t go wrong if you found one that was recently CLA`d
Tom
I cut my collecting and shooting teeth on a 1939 IIIa all the way back in like 1989, the IIIa is still the BEST way to start the experience of the RANGEFINDER way of shooting, you can find a clean one for under $400 with case and try for a uncoated Summitar lens, my 1939 was the "bomb" it`s one of the few cameras I regret selling, while it shot so well and was so much fun to use.....it was interesting when I moved up to IIIC`s and IIIF`s to shoot with, but I always went back to play with the uncoated Summitar and IIIa for available light and slide film shots
Summar`s a great little lens too, will give that "Leica Glow" with the blk n wht photos
Shop around there`s lot`s of IIIa`s out there, buy the one that`s in tip top shape, even wouldn`t go wrong if you found one that was recently CLA`d
Tom
Last edited:
jolefler
Established
Just a thought...
Just a thought...
from my perspective:
I thought I wanted one (a Leica) and bought a few look/sound/feel-alikes that I thought would save me a few bucks. As it turned out, I wasn't satisfied until I did own a Leica. It just ate away at my innards, despite the fact that most were capable of giving great results. In fact, I probably can't tell the difference in the photos from all of them I've made.
I was in the position of not having the opportunity to use a Leica for an extended period of time to determine whether it was really for me, or not. I just waited until one came along that I could afford, and grabbed it. A Barnack, which was immediately sent to Youxin for a CLA. I've had four rolls through it since getting it back. Had to tune my printing to accomodate the uncoated Elmar, blah, blah...the bottom line is I wouldn't give it up for anything now. It's somehow sweeter than all of the others in my hands, fits in my pocket going everywhere, never gets left at home. You can see it in a recent post in the "show off your I, II, II..." thread.
I thought I didn't need the "NAME", either....but Manny, it's one fine machine!
Just a thought...
from my perspective:
I thought I wanted one (a Leica) and bought a few look/sound/feel-alikes that I thought would save me a few bucks. As it turned out, I wasn't satisfied until I did own a Leica. It just ate away at my innards, despite the fact that most were capable of giving great results. In fact, I probably can't tell the difference in the photos from all of them I've made.
I was in the position of not having the opportunity to use a Leica for an extended period of time to determine whether it was really for me, or not. I just waited until one came along that I could afford, and grabbed it. A Barnack, which was immediately sent to Youxin for a CLA. I've had four rolls through it since getting it back. Had to tune my printing to accomodate the uncoated Elmar, blah, blah...the bottom line is I wouldn't give it up for anything now. It's somehow sweeter than all of the others in my hands, fits in my pocket going everywhere, never gets left at home. You can see it in a recent post in the "show off your I, II, II..." thread.
I thought I didn't need the "NAME", either....but Manny, it's one fine machine!
Last edited:
dee
Well-known
One point about the Leica IIc / IIf - there were fewer of them , so more expensive.
The IIIc is the most plentiful, mine worls well with an Industar collapsible , or a Jupiter 8 [ F2 ]
But I don't believe that I would sell a more modern camera , as it is really a vintage experience ...
If you simply wish to sample a taste of vintage Leica useage - a serviced Zorki or Fed 1 from a reputable USSR dealer - could help you decide ... but there is nothing quite like taking photographs with a 1933 black Leica II - even if it is almost worn away outside !
dee
The IIIc is the most plentiful, mine worls well with an Industar collapsible , or a Jupiter 8 [ F2 ]
But I don't believe that I would sell a more modern camera , as it is really a vintage experience ...
If you simply wish to sample a taste of vintage Leica useage - a serviced Zorki or Fed 1 from a reputable USSR dealer - could help you decide ... but there is nothing quite like taking photographs with a 1933 black Leica II - even if it is almost worn away outside !
dee
LeicaTom
Watch that step!
cmedin,
Here`s just what the doctor ordered.....I don`t know the seller, but this is at a good price now @ $81 -
http://cgi.ebay.com/Leica-IIIa-w-Summar-Nice-Clean-Working-Body_W0QQitemZ110167923522QQihZ001QQcategoryZ30030QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Check it out, maybe it`s your "FIRST" Leica?
Tom
Here`s just what the doctor ordered.....I don`t know the seller, but this is at a good price now @ $81 -
http://cgi.ebay.com/Leica-IIIa-w-Summar-Nice-Clean-Working-Body_W0QQitemZ110167923522QQihZ001QQcategoryZ30030QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Check it out, maybe it`s your "FIRST" Leica?
Tom
Leigh Youdale
Well-known
Spare Yourself!
Spare Yourself!
I have a Bessa 3A and lenses. Great to use, no question. Big viewfinder, TTL meter, lever wind, rangefinder clear.
But I "hankered" after a Leica. Couldn't afford an M4 or M6 so went on EBay and bought a 'gold plated' FED dressed up as a fake Leica II with a fake Elmar 3.5/50 collapsible lens thinking it would satisfy me. Put one film through it. It works, sort of. OK but not great.
Loved the size and feel. Put it away. Went and bought two Leica IIIf's straight away - one with the genuine Elmar and the other with the 2/50 Summitar. Had them both CLA'd thinking I'd keep one and sell the other. Kept them both! They just feel better than the FED.
I use them all now except the FED. I'll probably unload it at the next camera fair in my city.
The Voigtlander lenses are LTM except for the Nokton so I can also use them on the IIIf without the bayonet adaptors and with their viewfinders but generally i just stick with the 50 focal length Leica lenses.
If you want a Leica, go buy one. if you buy a FED my guess is you'll still eventually want a Leica!
Spare Yourself!
I have a Bessa 3A and lenses. Great to use, no question. Big viewfinder, TTL meter, lever wind, rangefinder clear.
But I "hankered" after a Leica. Couldn't afford an M4 or M6 so went on EBay and bought a 'gold plated' FED dressed up as a fake Leica II with a fake Elmar 3.5/50 collapsible lens thinking it would satisfy me. Put one film through it. It works, sort of. OK but not great.
Loved the size and feel. Put it away. Went and bought two Leica IIIf's straight away - one with the genuine Elmar and the other with the 2/50 Summitar. Had them both CLA'd thinking I'd keep one and sell the other. Kept them both! They just feel better than the FED.
I use them all now except the FED. I'll probably unload it at the next camera fair in my city.
The Voigtlander lenses are LTM except for the Nokton so I can also use them on the IIIf without the bayonet adaptors and with their viewfinders but generally i just stick with the 50 focal length Leica lenses.
If you want a Leica, go buy one. if you buy a FED my guess is you'll still eventually want a Leica!
rxmd
May contain traces of nut
Put the FED in the classifieds here, you're practically guaranteed to find a buyer.
If the choice is between the screwmount Leica and a Canon-P, in my book it's a non-issue. The Canon P is much, much better from a usability point of view (no need to trim every film before loading, backdoor loading instead of bottom loading, much better finder with 1:1 and framelines for various focal lengths, better rangefinder accuracy, less awkward and non-spinning shutter speed selector). The Leica has just three things speaking for it: the nostalgia of shooting like in the 1930s, the Leica name (whatever that's worth in practice), and a certain advantage in compactness that brings with it a huge disadvantage in ergonomics. Two of the three can be had with a Zorki. If presented with that choice, assuming that one doesn't lust for the Leica because of the name, I would choose the P any day; it's simply a much better camera.
If the choice is between the screwmount Leica and a Canon-P, in my book it's a non-issue. The Canon P is much, much better from a usability point of view (no need to trim every film before loading, backdoor loading instead of bottom loading, much better finder with 1:1 and framelines for various focal lengths, better rangefinder accuracy, less awkward and non-spinning shutter speed selector). The Leica has just three things speaking for it: the nostalgia of shooting like in the 1930s, the Leica name (whatever that's worth in practice), and a certain advantage in compactness that brings with it a huge disadvantage in ergonomics. Two of the three can be had with a Zorki. If presented with that choice, assuming that one doesn't lust for the Leica because of the name, I would choose the P any day; it's simply a much better camera.
Last edited:
tyrone.s
Well-known
cmedin said:
I think that if you're going to go for a Leica IIIf on a budget then a collapsible Elmar would be the go - or even a collapsible Industar at $9.95 plus $14.95 postage - that price is going to be hard to beat in terms of return on your picture taking dollar. My reasoning for these lenses on a IIIf is that being 50 mm units they won't need an external viewfinder and they both collapse down into a really nice user units that you can carry around - this is just bliss. To me this combination just feels right - small and pocketable and with nothing extraneous: no extra viewfinders, clip on light meters and so on. For a while there I was using my IIIf with a clip on multi-finder (one of those Soviet turret style ones) and a Voigtlander 35/1.7. But it felt ungainly and a little bulky and it was basically awkward. After a while I started to think about getting one of those clip on Voigtlander light meters - mercifully I came to my senses and ended up getting a BESSA R 'with in built light meter and combo viewfinder with framelines!' But that's another story.
At any I've used the Elmar and the Industar and they're both really good lenses - externally very similiar but apparently quite different on the inside. If you look for an Elmar you might want to get some opinions on red dial versus black dial variations. I have a red dial version and red dials are supposed to be better with colour film - I don't know.
The IIIf / any ltm thread Leica is a hell-of-a-camera and I'm sure either lens would make you a happy camper. I'm not sure about telephoto lenses. Let us know how you go.
Last edited:
cmedin
Well-known
That is pretty, though I bet it'll jump up a fair bit from $81 before the end.
cmedin
Well-known
It's at $228 with some time to go. The Summar is described as 'hazy' though which has me wondering.
In my search I did come across an opportunity to purchase a CLA'd III for $220. How does the plain III compare to its siblings? I looked at the CQ site and it appears you lose 1/1000 speed, closer-together VF/RF windows... but in practice how does it fare?
(I canned the Canon P thoughts after I read up on it having issues with collapsible lenses)
In my search I did come across an opportunity to purchase a CLA'd III for $220. How does the plain III compare to its siblings? I looked at the CQ site and it appears you lose 1/1000 speed, closer-together VF/RF windows... but in practice how does it fare?
(I canned the Canon P thoughts after I read up on it having issues with collapsible lenses)
mike goldberg
The Peaceful Pacific
Hi... This is for Tyrone or anyone else. I've just bought a IIIf and have quite a good Fed 50/3.5 collapsible. If an I-22 will mount and focus OK on the IIIf, can I assume the Fed 50 will, as well?
Thanks
Thanks
rxmd
May contain traces of nut
Canon built collapsible lenses themselves (Serenar 50/1.9). If there is an issue with your particular lens, that issue can be taken care of with a small rubberband around the lens barrel. The Bessa also has "issues" in theory that Internet forums are full of, and I used it with a collapsible Industar-22 all the time. The P is still a much better cameracmedin said:
Philipp
cmedin
Well-known
The one lens style I'm looking to use is the old collapsible Elmar. How does the rubberband trick work?
LeicaTom
Watch that step!
CLA`d III for $220 that`s a really good price can`t go wrong with that
Tom
Tom
rxmd
May contain traces of nut
Easy. If your collapsible lens hits a light baffle or whatever inside the chamber when collapsing, put a rubberband (an O-ring, a plastic cable binder, whatever) around the front portion of the barrel. This prevents the barrel from collapsing all the way. The lens then stands out a little bit, depending on the thickness of your rubberband, but the Elmar is still nicely compact.cmedin said:
I don't know if the Canon P has problems with collapsible lenses, and if it does, with which ones. Usually there are a lot of Internet rumours about that sort of thing. If you have body and lens before you, check before collapsing the lens. Put a cable release on the camera, open and lock the shutter on "B", look in the body from the back and collapse the lens. Even better, ask here on the Canon forum if they use Elmars or collapsible Industars with their Canon P, you're practically guaranteed to find somebody who has actually tried it (instead of regurgitating stuff read on the internet) or who can give you first-hand advice.
Philipp