Roger Hicks
Veteran
To whom? Who is going to be impressed by "I own a....'?
Most people don't even know what a Leica is. Of those who do, relatively few care, or realize how much new ones cost. Very few can tell an old one from a new one. If you're rich enough that a Leica is a plaything, you're not going to be impressed, even if you do know and care.
Do they buy it to impress people at their local camera clubs? How many even belong to a local camera club? If they do, how many care what the others think? Or would spend thousands just to impress them?
Maybe you can pretend to show off on line, but as most people hide behind pseudonyms, they could just as easily lie. And who would care anyway?
Of course there are lots of really incompetent Leica photographers. And incompetent Nikon and Zorkii and Canon and Yashica photographers. And? Being able to afford a Leica doesn't automatically make someone a bad photographer, any more than it makes them a good one.
So who are the intended targets of these smug rich bar stewards who want to boast about their Leicas? Whom do they hope to impress? The more I think about it, the more this puzzles me. EDIT: To clarify, I'm not sure they exist, at least in significant numbers. But I am sure that surprisingly many people think they exist. Why?
Cheers,
R.
Most people don't even know what a Leica is. Of those who do, relatively few care, or realize how much new ones cost. Very few can tell an old one from a new one. If you're rich enough that a Leica is a plaything, you're not going to be impressed, even if you do know and care.
Do they buy it to impress people at their local camera clubs? How many even belong to a local camera club? If they do, how many care what the others think? Or would spend thousands just to impress them?
Maybe you can pretend to show off on line, but as most people hide behind pseudonyms, they could just as easily lie. And who would care anyway?
Of course there are lots of really incompetent Leica photographers. And incompetent Nikon and Zorkii and Canon and Yashica photographers. And? Being able to afford a Leica doesn't automatically make someone a bad photographer, any more than it makes them a good one.
So who are the intended targets of these smug rich bar stewards who want to boast about their Leicas? Whom do they hope to impress? The more I think about it, the more this puzzles me. EDIT: To clarify, I'm not sure they exist, at least in significant numbers. But I am sure that surprisingly many people think they exist. Why?
Cheers,
R.
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bwcolor
Veteran
Don't you think that the smart smug folks have moved on to brag about the latest digital gear. After all, the few folks that can even identify that the camera around your neck is film based are smart enough to know that you are an idiot retrograde for shooting film.
Most of the I own this and that on this site seems to just be more of a shared enthusiasm for the hobby and the intrinsic beauty of the tools of the trade.
Having said that, many here do earn respect for their abilities/talents as seen in their images and others through their knowledge and willingness to teach others.
Most of the I own this and that on this site seems to just be more of a shared enthusiasm for the hobby and the intrinsic beauty of the tools of the trade.
Having said that, many here do earn respect for their abilities/talents as seen in their images and others through their knowledge and willingness to teach others.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Is someone been "rattling your cage" Roger.
Not sure. Actually it seems to me that standards of civility in this forum are (broadly) going up rather than down. It just struck me that addressing this one question in a dedicated thread might be more interesting than submerging it in the "What is it worth to you?" thread (among others, where it is sometimes the elephant in the room).
Cheers,
R.
I've been using a Leica and have been stopped by a few that recognize it. One was in Williamsburg, by a gentleman probably in his mid 60s. "Oh! A Leica M3!, I have one of those!" I asked him where was it, as he was using a Digital Point and Shoot. "Oh, at home. It's too nice to use".
He did not impress me.
He did not impress me.
batterytypehah!
Lord of the Dings
Gosh, not a question that's been keeping me awake at night but since you asked, I can think of two scenarios:
They like the act of buying, and the attention they get from the dealer. Preferably in a real store in Manhattan or Tokyo or Berlin. If they stoop so low as to buy on Ebay, why then of course it needs a CLA with all the bells and whistles. Read, buyer needs his ego pampered by technician.
My other theory is that many times, having the money and inclination to show off with a Leica is one thing, and realizing how few people know and care is quite another. They may think their consumption is conspicuous, but it's not!
They like the act of buying, and the attention they get from the dealer. Preferably in a real store in Manhattan or Tokyo or Berlin. If they stoop so low as to buy on Ebay, why then of course it needs a CLA with all the bells and whistles. Read, buyer needs his ego pampered by technician.
My other theory is that many times, having the money and inclination to show off with a Leica is one thing, and realizing how few people know and care is quite another. They may think their consumption is conspicuous, but it's not!
FrankS
Registered User
There seem to me to be some people who, in a form of reverse snobbery, assign the motivation to buy a Leica to a desire to show off. This is off the mark in my opinion, because there are many much more conspicious purchases that could be made which draw greater attention to the buyer than a Leica. As stated, most others do not even know what a Leica is.
shimokita
白黒
Questions of this ilk are sometimes cause for self examination, as in "why did I purchase my Leica". And to be frank, not many would admit to being being a show-off. Pride of ownership maybe or self satisfaction etc. Is it a matter of the high end goods driving excessive consumerism?
Of course, if it can be afforded, why not use what is available at the higher end of the quality spectrum and many live by the creed that "a few good items is a more appropriate choice than many items of lesser quality". Maybe in this we are speaking about the average joe, not either end of the bell curve. It's easy enough to get emotional about the excess of some of the boys and girls on Wall Street with their deep pockets.
Self examination can be a good thing for the individual and it also adds bricks to the shared emotional medium - "we are in this together and/or I am just one of the boys".
To paraphrase Carlos Ruiz Zafon, "[photography], at least good [phogography], is science tempered with the blood of art. Like architecture or music." From which I understand that (a) since there are at least two elements (science and art), some technique/tools are required and (b) our choice of activity is also a shared activity that by nature is viewed by others. In photography (as in other activities) there will be excess. Self examination is a positive (required and deeply appreciated) activity... good, great, next...
Casey
Of course, if it can be afforded, why not use what is available at the higher end of the quality spectrum and many live by the creed that "a few good items is a more appropriate choice than many items of lesser quality". Maybe in this we are speaking about the average joe, not either end of the bell curve. It's easy enough to get emotional about the excess of some of the boys and girls on Wall Street with their deep pockets.
Self examination can be a good thing for the individual and it also adds bricks to the shared emotional medium - "we are in this together and/or I am just one of the boys".
To paraphrase Carlos Ruiz Zafon, "[photography], at least good [phogography], is science tempered with the blood of art. Like architecture or music." From which I understand that (a) since there are at least two elements (science and art), some technique/tools are required and (b) our choice of activity is also a shared activity that by nature is viewed by others. In photography (as in other activities) there will be excess. Self examination is a positive (required and deeply appreciated) activity... good, great, next...
Casey
bobkonos
Well-known
Hmm...the more I think about this thread the more it puzzles me. Since when is it a crime to enjoy owning something and sharing that joy? I do it all the time, with my cameras (yes, many are Leicas) and my bicycles. I do not care if my friends or strangers "get it", but I am always greeted with a smile and appreciation that I appreciate these objects. But ultimately my photography is what they discuss at my exhibits, which is great, too. Apprently Roger, "your mileage may vary."
Roger Hicks
Veteran
This is entirely possible. Frightening, isn't it, that someone as stupid as that can earn enough money to consume (as they hope) conspicuously. The first scenario is depressingly possible too. Thanks for two great analyses!
Cheers,
R.
johannielscom
Snorting silver salts
Never got this.
I feel I have some pretty nice gear (I'm on the verge of sharing what it is here) but it's mostly taped up as to not attract any attention when shooting.
Tonight I stripped the old vulcanite off my IIIa and after reading this I might just put gaffer tape on that as well, instead of that sweet brown goat skin cameraleather.com sells...
I feel I have some pretty nice gear (I'm on the verge of sharing what it is here) but it's mostly taped up as to not attract any attention when shooting.
Tonight I stripped the old vulcanite off my IIIa and after reading this I might just put gaffer tape on that as well, instead of that sweet brown goat skin cameraleather.com sells...
Dave Wilkinson
Veteran
I believe that on line there is a lot of showing off, bragging and airing of alleged knowledge, and it is pretty pointless when we are never going to meet the majority of people we are addressing and attempting to impress.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Dear Bob,
That's my point. You don't buy them just to show off. My suggestion is that hardly anyone does, and that those who accuse Leica owners of doing so have a curious and ultimately indefensible agenda of their own. Most people buy them to take pictures with, and whether they're good or bad photographers is irrelevant.
Cheers,
R.
Roger, have you just run into one-too-many smug rich snobs? I rarely encounter any myself; where are you finding them?
I think most folks with a little familiarity with the name often assume anything that resembles a Leica may be a Leica, and I've had people ask me if my Hexar RF is a Leica. And assume my M8 is a film camera and therefore passé, and I don't disabuse them of that. I tend to be reticent in discussiing all this unless the other party is clearly well-informed.
Now a richly-dressed guy in a bar knocking back a few with a Leica S2 over his shoulder in prominent view... I don't know who would be impressed except by the cost, if only they knew. I ran into a gent yesterday who owns one but he didn't have it with him.
In this same vein, a professional landscape photographer mentioned that he usually covers his camera nameplates with black tape. He made the interesting point that this usually deflects curiosity about the gear, so in speaking with others in the field the conversation then goes toward photographic matters instead.
I think most folks with a little familiarity with the name often assume anything that resembles a Leica may be a Leica, and I've had people ask me if my Hexar RF is a Leica. And assume my M8 is a film camera and therefore passé, and I don't disabuse them of that. I tend to be reticent in discussiing all this unless the other party is clearly well-informed.
Now a richly-dressed guy in a bar knocking back a few with a Leica S2 over his shoulder in prominent view... I don't know who would be impressed except by the cost, if only they knew. I ran into a gent yesterday who owns one but he didn't have it with him.
In this same vein, a professional landscape photographer mentioned that he usually covers his camera nameplates with black tape. He made the interesting point that this usually deflects curiosity about the gear, so in speaking with others in the field the conversation then goes toward photographic matters instead.
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J. Borger
Well-known
I only want to impress myself. Holding a very good and beautiful camera that also is a joy to use in my hands makes me feel good. Just as looking at a Tag Heuer or Breitling watch 30 times a day to verify time. Yes i know: a Seiko would also do but looking at it would not make me happy .
.
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retow
Well-known
"One does not show off......". A very European concept, rooted in history of Socialism.
Steve Bellayr
Veteran
Roger,
Don't be so negative. People know a good camera from a p&s even if they do not approach you. They may not be able to articulate the price but they know the quality.
Don't be so negative. People know a good camera from a p&s even if they do not approach you. They may not be able to articulate the price but they know the quality.
David 11084
Established
"stooping so low as to buy on Ebay." Outrageous! I did and use a 1A because of intrigue, romance, history and the characterful pictures I sometimes get. I love that it is a Leica but it isn't badged as such and I love the quizzical looks that I get but would still use it if I didn't. Without Ebay I couldn't have afforded it (and yes, I am aware of the pitfalls of using this auction site).
Outrageous!
David
Outrageous!
David
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Dear Doug,
The opposite, rather.
I often hear, "Leica owners just want to show off," but I've never understood how they are supposed to do this, and only very, very seldom have I met anyone who boasted about any brand of camera -- though our biology lab tech at school in the '60s was inordinately proud of his Praktica.
This is why I wanted to find out where these 'Leica snobs' are trying to impress people. Like you, I almost never meet any. Yes, I've occasionally met rich twits with Leicas (or Hasseblads, or Canons, or...) but (a) they'd be rich twits with any camera or with no camera and (b) except at camera clubs I've never seen anyone trying to impress anyone else with his camera.
Cheers,
R.
sevo
Fokutorendaburando
The same goes for many other prestige fetishes. Few people know the difference between a real expensive watch and a $20 imitation. Even if you own a real one, chances are that you'll be counted among the gazillion of plebeians with an imitation picked up on vacation at some Thai street market.
Nonetheless people do buy them - and positively not for their timekeeping quality (any $10 radio controlled watch beats them by magnitudes). I guess some people do love solipsistic showing off merely for the purpose of impressing themselves...
Sevo
Steve Bellayr
Veteran
Let me clarify one more thing: High quality camera does not guarantee quality results but demonstrates that people are serious about their experience. I don't think people are showing off as much as pride of ownership. It is not the very wealthy that are showing off their objects but middle class people who are saying: I am serious. I have invested a large part of myself into this experience.