Leica owners are just showing off!

Hi Roger,
Over at Stansted airport Wenesday photographing returning stranded travellers.
Weights a bit of a problem now carryng loads of metal. Heaved a D700, a 70-200 2,8 and a 24mm in pocket.....and a Leica with black tape over the logo's with a 28.28.

D700 'packed up' after about 20 frames.
Thank the Gods for the Leica !

Everybody asumed I was a pro because of the D700 and the frackin (Apologies for the BSG expletives but INMH opinion the best Sci Fi TV show since JLB invented 'The Tube' ) great 70-200 with that huge lenshood.
Nobody really noticed the Leica but maybe the might have seen the published pictures from it next morning.
Very Best,
Peter
 
Nice little story from a Fleet Street friend:

He was shooting a scene-of-crime (or aftermath-of-crime) pic, one of six or eight press photographers there. The policemen said, "Why haven't you got a proper camera like those other blokes?"

There was a long silence, then one of the other blokes said, "Because he bought it himself. We'd love it if the newspapers allowed us to use them too, instead of insisting on these bloody things." (waving a huge SLR).

He was one of the first to buy an M9, too. But then, something like 16 out of 20 of his various press awards have been won with Leicas.

@Sara: Point 2: Nice story.

@ John and Doug: Yes, in the 50s and 60s, the gulf between good kit and lesser kit was far greater. I think it began to close fast in the late 60s.

@ Peter: Nah, you were just showing off... Seriously, it always amuses me that the Leica is simultaneously held up as unobtrusive (which I've always found it to be), and derided as ostentatious. As noted below, some people seem just to WANT to be offended by Leicas.

@ Aizan: but how are they showing off? Who actually notices these cameras? Sure, there are people who would like a Leica but can't afford one, and happen to notice that someone else is carrying one, but these people are vanishingly rare, and it's more a case of their thinking the Leica owner is showing off, when in fact he's just taking pictures. In other words, 'showng off' requires, to coin new words, a 'show-offer' (one who shows off) and a show-offee' (one who thinks they are being shown off to). My thesis is that the former are vanishingly rare while the latter are just waiting to be ofended by someone they think is showing off.

Another anecdote. A few years ago I at at a county fair. I'd not had the MP long, so it was unbrassed, and a kind friend had lent me his Noctilux because 'd always wanted to try one. In one room there was a photo exhibition and competition. Seeing I was carrying a camera (and presumably seeing what it was), the fellow in charge came over and asked if I'd like to enter the competition. I declined, because I've judged a few, and success is at least as much a matter of luck and the judges' whim as (aesthetic) image quality. You could practically hear him thinking, "Flash git! Probably never takes a picture in his life!"

Cheers,

R.
 
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nobbylon said:
Peter,
why did the D700 pack up? Sorry, I know it's off topic but i'm interested,
regards john
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Hi John,
Took it round to Nikon in Richmond yesterday and they said their were some 'issues' with the battery pack. To their credit they fixed it straight away.
Had I have realized I would have removed it and carried on using the camera but you really don't have time to 'Frack about' with your gear in that sort of situation.
Regards'
Peter.
 
parsec1 said:
Hi John,
Took it round to Nikon in Richmond yesterday and they said their were some 'issues' with the battery pack. To their credit they fixed it straight away.
Had I have realized I would have removed it and carried on using the camera but you really don't have time to 'Frack about' with your gear in that sort of situation.
Regards'
Peter.
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Thanks for the reply Peter. I'll reference that one in my head, just in case!
regards j
 
Brian Sweeney said:
I've been using a Leica and have been stopped by a few that recognize it.

...

He did not impress me.
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Similar recent situation. I went to an evening Hanami party with M3 and 50/1.2 lens. Wasn't worried about the shots as I was concerned that my bulk roll film had problems and wanted to blow through a roll. A guy at the event accurately recognized the camera and went gaga. I figured that I'd encourage his interest and gave him the camera to shoot for a bit. Next week I developed the roll and not one of his shots showed any effort to focus. He said he wants an M3, but had no notion of how a rangefinder works. I guess he was happy to be wearing it. And that in spite of the fact that I'd stripped off the vulcanite. Go figure.

Personally, to the extent that I'm concerned about aesthetic, I'd rather the M3 internals fit into my Nicca. 😛
 
Roger Hicks said:
My suggestion is that hardly anyone does, and that those who accuse Leica owners of doing so have a curious and ultimately indefensible agenda of their own.
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I think that is spot on. I have met a lot of Leica users here in Paris and 99% were passionates instead of people wanting to show off. And sincerely, if I want to show off on Les Champs-Elysées, a Porsche is not enough anymore, I would probably need a huge Bentley. So my Leica won't help 😉
More seriously, to show off, you need something that is recognized as premium good by most of your peers. A Leica does not fall in this category. It is unknown to most and its look actually causes the reverse effect (poor guy, can't buy a real camera).
 
I once got arrested in Japan because it turns out foreigners have to have their passports with them at all times.

Anyway, I got taken off to the police station by four plain clothes detectives, one sitting either side of me so I couldn't jump out of the police car, which was very exciting. They were asking me what I was doing walking around, and found it a bit hard to believe a tourist would spend a day strolling and taking photos.

They asked me if I was taking pictures of military bases (seriously! this was in the middle of Fukushima city) and were very disappointed that my Leica didn't have a screen on the back to check. They then proceeded to tell me my camera was out of date and I should buy a new one, one of the detectives went and got his 8 megapixel Casio point and shoot to recommend. I was very offended having spent all that money and not getting at least some recognition...

In Europe, in my experience a lot of people recognise a Leica, and most young people at least seem to think it's pretty cool.
 
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Roger Hicks said:
Dear Doug,

The opposite, rather.

I often hear, "Leica owners just want to show off," but I've never understood how they are supposed to do this, and only very, very seldom have I met anyone who boasted about any brand of camera -- though our biology lab tech at school in the '60s was inordinately proud of his Praktica.

This is why I wanted to find out where these 'Leica snobs' are trying to impress people. Like you, I almost never meet any. Yes, I've occasionally met rich twits with Leicas (or Hasseblads, or Canons, or...) but (a) they'd be rich twits with any camera or with no camera and (b) except at camera clubs I've never seen anyone trying to impress anyone else with his camera.

Cheers,

R.
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I note a lot of people here in RFF talking about their Leicas with apparent pride. Pride of ownership isn't a bad thing. Some do seem to speak out of al little more than just pride of ownership of a great tool. That may or not be from snobbery. I have commented many times that I don't own a Leica, and doubt I ever will. I can't afford most bodies, and fewer lenses. I don't mind. I am proud of what I have.

And there I have to take exception to your comment Mr. Hicks. I have often bragged about my Fujica ST 901 and my Fujinon lenses. Unfortunately, most here in RFF don't appreciate the ST 901. In 35 years, it has yet to fail me. I expect it will some day, but not yet. So I brag about owning one. For those of you who only have Leicas to brag about, I am sorry. 😀
 
Roger,
Heaven knows what some might think of many of Magnums photographers who use maybe 3 Leicas at a time and they ain't exactly known for producing 'rubbish' . Although I fully understand that this is not a professional forum the ' buzz' of leaving a 'Fleet St Newspaper office at 2 am with a copy of the paper under your arm with your picture and byeline on the front page shot with your Leica was allways more than enough for me.
Peter
 
oftheherd said:
I note a lot of people here in RFF talking about their Leicas with apparent pride. Pride of ownership isn't a bad thing. Some do seem to speak out of al little more than just pride of ownership of a great tool. That may or not be from snobbery. I have commented many times that I don't own a Leica, and doubt I ever will. I can't afford most bodies, and fewer lenses. I don't mind. I am proud of what I have.

And there I have to take exception to your comment Mr. Hicks. I have often bragged about my Fujica ST 901 and my Fujinon lenses. Unfortunately, most here in RFF don't appreciate the ST 901. In 35 years, it has yet to fail me. I expect it will some day, but not yet. So I brag about owning one. For those of you who only have Leicas to brag about, I am sorry. 😀
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Not too sure about 35mm but their large format lenses are very well regarded indeed.
 
Well, I must admit, that I am a pretty lousy photographer - only one or two pictures out of a roll of 36 exposures which I like (which doesn't mean that other skilled photographers like them too). And I have more cameras than I need. One of them is a Leica. My pictures don't get much better with it in comparison to pictures I take with other cameras. I tested one a few years ago which needed some CLA, but was pretty cheap in comparison to other offers. At that time I went to Leica - Solms to get an estimation, what the repair costs would be, got an answer taht was beyond my budget at that time. I posted a question in the Leica-forum about alternative repair-shops with may be moderate prices, thinking that there might be some difference in price, not in quality. The answer I got right away was like: "If you are not able to pay the CLA price Solms askes, you shouldn't buy a Leica. This is for people who can afford that!" I didn't buy the Leica then - not only because of the CLA price, but because of this reaction - a little over-emotional: but I didn't want to belong to a group of photographers, who identify gear with the status of a certain income. Well - there are a lot other people out there who understand the attraction not only to a brand, but the functionality, the haptic, the sound, the solidity which comes with something like a Leica (I also drive old metal Vespas, which are a lot slower than new ones, but which make me just smile even looking at them). Now using a Leica, beiing able to afford one, is a joy - I also enjoy peaple, who can also appreciate this excellent craftsmanship - and I stay away from those who try to get involved in price discussions or who want to but me in a corner, that only those are allowed to use gear like that, who's pictures are as good as some famous users.
 
I think Juan's comments before about amateur photographers choosing what they perceive as the best to make up for a lack of their own ability is true ... but it's also human nature! I don't have a problem with that behaviour and actually think it's fine.

As for a Leica being a status symbol for some people why not if that's their thing ... but the funny thing is the Leica camera itself is a pretty unassuming looking piece of gear and not really likely to attract much attention in public at all aside from other Leica users or people who have owned one at some time!

I had a lot of fun recently strolling around with my Crown Graphic hanging off the end of my arm ... now that really grabbed a few people's attention ... all for three hundred dollars! 😀

Strangely I dont feel that comfortable walking around with a Leica M visible and tend to keep it shut away in the Domke until I'm actually ready to use it.
 
I read this thread with much interest.

Somewhat related is the whole Leica Mystique thing.

I sold off 5 of my Leicas this past week, advertising in a local camera forum. All 5 were snapped up within the day of the listing. The Leicaflex SL took another 48 hours before it was sold off.

My Olympus 35SP only got one enquiry, and not even a serious one. That was 72 hours ago.

Prof Robert Ciadini who wrote a book about persuasion wrote that people could be persuaded to buy something simply because it was scarce.

Face it, everyone wants to own a Leica. Even if they can't tell the difference between a IIIC or CL or SL or C3 P&S. The Leicas are so rare and precious that there is a certain mystique (and negative stereotype of Leica Owners) around it. Schadenfreude perhaps ?

raytoei
 
sara said:
Erm, I bought a Leica because:

1. It was a confirmation to everyone that I was serious about photography and that I was going to do it till the end.

2. It was the first big thing I spent on with my own earnings; I was saving for at least half a year.

3. When I take photos, I never tell people which camera I use. If they do ask, I just say "oh, and SLR or a rangefinder"

but it's just the same as those who spend loads on super long lenses and very expensive digital stuff and shove it at your face (especially amateurs) and go "HEY LOOK I HAVE A DIGITAL CAMERA IMMA PRO NOW INNIT".

Not.
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Probably 99.99% of the world does not know what a Leica is, so it is not a confirmation to the world.
Not all digital users think there are more of a pro than someone who bought a Leica to impress the world,

Steve
 
Keith said:
but the funny thing is the Leica camera itself is a pretty unassuming looking piece of gear and not really likely to attract much attention in public at all aside from other Leica users or people who have owned one at some time!
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Yep, that's a real problem for us show-offs. Too many people just don't recognise the damn things. I find that making a little speech usually helps. Something along the following lines usually generates public attention and admiration:

'I know what you're thinking. 'Did he fire thirty six shots or only thirty five?" Well, to tell you the truth, in all this excitement I kind of lost track myself. But being as this is a 35mm Leica, the sharpest camera in the world, and is very unflattering to wrinkled faces, you've got to ask yourself one question: Do I feel lucky? Well, do ya, punk?'
 
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Only other camera geeks are impressed by Leicas. I even walk around NYC and see other people with Leicas and they don't give a crap about me and my Leica.
 
FrankHarries said:
I tested one a few years ago which needed some CLA, but was pretty cheap in comparison to other offers. At that time I went to Leica - Solms to get an estimation, what the repair costs would be, got an answer taht was beyond my budget at that time. I posted a question in the Leica-forum about alternative repair-shops with may be moderate prices, thinking that there might be some difference in price, not in quality. The answer I got right away was like: "If you are not able to pay the CLA price Solms askes, you shouldn't buy a Leica. This is for people who can afford that!" I didn't buy the Leica then - not only because of the CLA price, but because of this reaction - a little over-emotional: but I didn't want to belong to a group of photographers, who identify gear with the status of a certain income.
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When this sort of thing happens it does not take long for a group to get the reputation of being snobby. I have not met many Leica shooters in person but the few I have do not seem to be too snobby. A small number of people can ruin it for the whole group. Leica users are not the only ones capable of this sort of crap, I have seen this on forums dedicated to Nikon gear.

Bob
 
I was recently stopped in the street by a nice gentleman (and fellow Leica owner as it turned out). We chatted a bit - cordially. No snobbishness or showing off detected on either side as we spoke casually about our cameras. I came away from the conversation as two Leica enthusiasts who enjoy casual picture-taking using wonderfully engineered equipment.
 
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