boojum
Ignoble Miscreant
The question remains how great and the cost/benefit ratio.
US$7K is not chump change. It will appeal to casual shooters for sure. OTOH, as I observed before, a permanent lens should not be a problem for most folks. Most shoot with just one focal length lens, usually a 50. The 43mm focal length is nice. I have a 40 and a 43 and like them. But how will it do on a quality photo? Is this a $7K point and shoot or is it a really good $7K pocket camera? Reviewers are swooning. Let's see what the ordinary slobs like you and me think. It's not like I have been saving up the egg money to blow on a camera. I am curious.
And as often as I have disagreed with Herr Doktor Kaufmann, not that it matters, he seems to have Leitz broadening their product stream, selling more than RF cameras. The Q3's in general and the 43 in particular seem a canny move. And they are touting "Made in Germany" but that can mean a lot of things. All the electronics? Small point, just curious. Those guys in Marketing always make me nervous.
boojum
Ignoble Miscreant
I have to wonder if this is an accident. It is very possible on a project this large for some small thing like this to be overlooked. OTOH Leitz does not impress me as an ethical company at all, starting with the IR/UV filters for the M8's that they walked away from and then the sensor cover and boards in the M9's, that they walked away from. And while I am whining let me get onto the indeterminable wait times on Leica repair work. There is no excuse for that lousy service/support. I had a Sony A7M II fixed and CLA's by factory reps in less than two weeks and had phone suport through it. Leitz, schade, shame on you.
ellisson
Well-known
Part of the appeal of Q cameras is the cropping modes. Nothing new about cropping...old stuff. But to see a scene at longer FLs in real time and to have the option of selecting one without changing lenses has contributed to the Q camera line success. Leica recognized that cropping is widespread and was popularized in mobile phone photography. The Q with cropping modes is especially attractive to casual shooters, hobbyists and travelers who want more than mobile phone cameras.
ellisson
Well-known
This question was answered with the Q3 28 and prior Q 28 cameras. There is a sizable demographic that purchases and enjoys these cameras.
Archiver
Veteran
I was under the impression that Leica supplied free IR cut filters for buyers of the M8, and replaced M9 sensors for free for a couple of years after the cover glass corrosion was found to be widespread. Considerable expense to the company. I can't think of any other camera manufacturer that has made such costly after sales repairs on wide scale like this.
boojum
Ignoble Miscreant
I do not want to put too fine a point on this. I agree that lots of folks buy these Q's. Who and why? That interests me. It is not as if a lot of serious amateurs and pros are buying these will change my skills. No, not at all.
And, yes, the on the fly crop is way cool and very useful. The IQ and color seem great. But I am just waiting to see if this beauty has bad breath and athletes foot or not. It looks like Leitz has found a sweet spot in the market. Whoever is driving this project has to be savvy and in for a whopping bonus. And promotion.
But I want to see how it is after a month or so in the hands of an honest and capable user. We have already seen the filter - lens hood problem. This is important. The US$70 "soft shutter release" is just another Leitz joke. B&H has other ones for just over 10% of that price: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1674747-REG/vello_ssb_slv_soft_shutter_button_silver.html
Richard G
Veteran
I had three sensor replacements for free, two in the M9-P and one on the Monochrom M in 2018, just inside the FIVE year limit from purchase.
The Q series has been sensational. My photographic group is non-gear oriented and mostly beyond film. Me and my Leicas were a tolerant indulgence of the group. But in a short space of time three members had the Q. Compelling proposition. A fixed lens camera is great. No choices. I love my X100. As Godfrey says, you could go with the 43 and that’s your camera. They are not pitching at my 28 Q friends, they’re pitching at new buyers, frightened by or uninterested in a 28mm lens. If they want that, they have the iPhone close enough, not that many make the connection.
The Q series has been sensational. My photographic group is non-gear oriented and mostly beyond film. Me and my Leicas were a tolerant indulgence of the group. But in a short space of time three members had the Q. Compelling proposition. A fixed lens camera is great. No choices. I love my X100. As Godfrey says, you could go with the 43 and that’s your camera. They are not pitching at my 28 Q friends, they’re pitching at new buyers, frightened by or uninterested in a 28mm lens. If they want that, they have the iPhone close enough, not that many make the connection.
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JohnGellings
Well-known
Well, you can get an idea by the Q3 no? Do you really think it'll be much different?
Certainly it is not...
I think that was the case a long time ago, but I think people prefer wider these days. I prefer 40-85mm and people find that quite strange these days.
Neither. It is a full blown Leica camera with a fixed lens.
I will not be spending $6700 on this. I'd only be interested in 5 years when it is more reasonably priced. I'll upgrade my GFX instead.
I have no doubt it is a great camera and will sell.
Richard G
Veteran
And this. Agree.
boojum
Ignoble Miscreant
Leitz did cover the expenses and then stopped. On the one hand Leitz replaced some cover glass. But the fact is that they sold shoddy goods. And then they disavowed responsibility. If they were a 100% ethical company they would have replaced all the sensors because they screwed up all the sensors. I am surprised the EU did not get on their case. I like the cameras. I do not like the company. If one breaks you wish you bought a Sony.
Godfrey
somewhat colored
You're talking in circles.
Why demand other people test the camera for you?
Buy one, test it yourself, then report on what you've found. If you want.
What you think of Leica isn't relevant. If you think so poorly of Leica, why even consider discussing their products? Makes no sense.
G
Why demand other people test the camera for you?
Buy one, test it yourself, then report on what you've found. If you want.
What you think of Leica isn't relevant. If you think so poorly of Leica, why even consider discussing their products? Makes no sense.
G
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Archiver
Veteran
What interests me about the current state of Leica cameras is their consolidation of sensor, imaging processor, batteries and menus. The SL3, Q3 and Q3 43 all have the same sensor, menus, processor and batteries, and the M11 has the same sensor and similar menus as the others. In theory, it makes switching between cameras very easy, minimizes batteries and chargers, and creates a homogenous look to the files across cameras.
There will be no issue with a photographer unifying their style across cameras, leaving little room for variance once they set a baseline for themselves. And there is no compromise with the sensors, either. Each current Leica camera has the same high end sensor that can be switched to multiple resolutions. Not too many manufacturers are doing this, if any other at all.
There will be no issue with a photographer unifying their style across cameras, leaving little room for variance once they set a baseline for themselves. And there is no compromise with the sensors, either. Each current Leica camera has the same high end sensor that can be switched to multiple resolutions. Not too many manufacturers are doing this, if any other at all.
AntonioC
Established
I’d be curious to hear about af precision (not speed or tracking capabilities), given how less forgiving a 43 f/2 is compared to a 26-28 f/1.7
Mute-on
Well-known
Great tip. Never liked the pull out hood on my 50 V5 either. Thanks!Tell that to my Summicron-M 50mm f/2 v5 ... I dislike slide out hoods, so it wears a Sensei lens hood.
G
Mute-on
Well-known
Agree, although I would add that soft releases themselves are actually a bit of a joke, at least in the way that everyone now adopts them as a must have accessory. What a load of rubbish. If they were so necessary, all shutter buttons would have them build in.
Regarding the lens hood/filter problem, it looks like a massive oversight for which Leica is hoping buyers will stump up for the expensive Leica (or a cheaper alternative) vented lens hood. Again, what rubbish. Design a proper hood that accommodates a filter and supply it with the damn camera, Leica. Geez.
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boojum
Ignoble Miscreant
The decent thing to do would be to replace the current hoods with a fully functional hood at Leitz's expense. But they have not been overly keen on this kind of support in the past. Yeah, they are good cameras. Yeah, support is awful. Sort of once you have it you are pretty much on your own. You would think they would try to do better. You would think.
Coldkennels
Barnack-toting Brit.
I've seen posts from people who bought a second-hand (well, probably third-, fourth-, or fitfh-hand) M8, contacted Leica to get an IR-cut filter, and were sent one free of charge without question.
And I've seen these as recently as LAST YEAR.
Name one other company that are
a) supporting products that haven't been bought new without any question or charge and
b) still supporting a product EIGHTEEN YEARS after it was introduced.
Go on, I'll wait.
As for the M9 sensor glass: they can't support something if they can't get the parts. It's simple as that. When they lost the ability to replace the sensor glass, they started doing trade-ins so you could get your defective M9 upgraded to a brand new digital M at a very reasonable price.
Are Leica notoriously slow at performing repairs? Sure. But as a company, they're seemingly one of the few who actually consider their product to be something that should stick around and be used for a long, long time.
boojum
Ignoble Miscreant
Having Leica supply IR/UV filters for used cameras is news to me. As I understood it they would send a filter, or two, to the serial number once. As for the sensor glass, Leitz stopped fixing them years ago while parts were available. And their repair service is really bad. Please feel free to defend these blaggards but you will never persuade me. My M9 has a factory repaired sensor and a circuit board replaced. I bought it that way. I am one of the lucky ones. The sensor glass can be removed and replaced for ~US$!,000. Maybe more. It can be done and is done.
They should have fixed those sensors at the time back in 2009 and 2010 and sent out fixed sensors on new cameras after that. Leitz ducked responsibility at the time of the initial event. Were they reputable they would have fixed the cameras, all of them, then. They did not. I am glad that no one's life depended on the functionality of the M9. Some of them would be dead.
It may be alright with you but it is not alright with me.
Godfrey
somewhat colored
So you want to conduct a bickerfest about a company you have already decided is not worth your interest. Great.
Leica have done very well by me over the years: They replaced the four way controller in my X2 for free when it was six months past warranty and did it in three weeks. They re-adjusted and collimated the viewfinder in my M10-R when I bought it used for free in five weeks. They provided parts for my Leica R extension tube set when it was four years past the elimination of the Leica R system, free of charge. They replaced the sensor in my M9 twice, before it went bad again and I took their market price offer for the M9 and applied it to a discounted M-P 240. They sent me a replacement shutter dial for my 1946 Leica IIIc when the old one was marred for $25. Never mind all the other incidences of information and advice I've had with them for the past forty-some years. Never mind that the cameras are some of the best made and nicest designed for simplicity and ease of use. Never mind that the lenses are amongst the best on the market...
Yeah, just terrible support and service. Why do I persevere with Leica? 🙄 Ask me in another thirty years, if I live that long.
G
raydm6
Yay! Cameras! 🙈🙉🙊┌( ಠ_ಠ)┘ [◉"]
Should this thread be moved here?
