Leica R4S diagnostics time

[CharlesDAMorgan]

A strange phenomenon appeared on a roll of colour film recently put through my Leica R4S. In about 24 of the roll, to a greater or lesser extent, a black mark appeared in the same position every time, complimented by the vertical band of light. Now the camera doesn't have a strap that could intrude and I used 3 different lenses with the same result. Plus the photos were taken at different times and places. No amount of playing with the camera can produce this bar when firing blind

Anybody have a clue? I bought the camera for the Summicron 50mm that came with it so there's no value to defend in it, but it's absolutely mystifying!

 

[tbhv55]

A strange phenomenon appeared on a roll of colour film recently put through my Leica R4S. In about 24 of the roll, to a greater or lesser extent, a black mark appeared in the same position every time, complimented by the vertical band of light. Now the camera doesn't have a strap that could intrude and I used 3 different lenses with the same result. Plus the photos were taken at different times and places. No amount of playing with the camera can produce this bar when firing blind

Given what you've said above, Charles, it does seem to be something of a mystery. I'd have put money on it being the camera strap finding its way into the frame (since I've had this happen... more than once 😱), but evidently not. Although not actually IN focus, it seems too nearly in focus to be something situated as close as the inside of the mirror chamber area. However, since the problem is still there after changing lenses, it surely must be in the mirror chamber. 😕

I'm not familiar with the particular construction of the R4s, but could there perhaps be a piece of light seal (or mirror bumper rubber/foam) moving around, and making an occasional appearance?

 

[raydm6]

Could it possibly be a light leak from the rear cover film window foam and intrusion of stray foam in the light path? Is the foam intact?

 

[CharlesDAMorgan]

No issue at all with the light seal for the film window, it's new and absolutely tight. There is evidence of a tear at the base seal for the film compartment, which could be the culprit, but the bit missing is mm long, not the length that would leave such a long mark.

I think it's time to put some self-loaded film through to test.

 

[farlymac]

Red streaks are indicative of light striking the film from the rear of the camera. One other indicator is that they tend to go completely across the film, not just the width of the film gate. The fact it is always in the same place means it happens just after the film has left the canister. Since you have a metal blade vertical running shutter we can rule out a shutter gap fault between curtains. It's too far from the edge of the door lock for that type of strike, so I'm going to say replace the film window seal.


The black mark would have to be from the front of the film. Is it consistent in size and shape? Do you take your glasses off and hold them in your hand while taking photos? Like this:



Almost by P F McFarland, on Flickr


Other than that it looks like a piece of film stuck in the shutter curtain track. But it could be a piece of the shutter itself. If you look at the camera from the rear with the film door open watch the bottom of the film gate (images are reversed and upside down) to see it it pops up. Vary the shutter speeds from fastest to B. Do this with and without the lens mounted. It doesn't look like something in the lens but hey, you never know.


PF

 

[wpb]

Put the camera on "B" without a lens and open the shutter. Looks like some object (film, light seal foam) caught in the shutter curtain track. It may have dislodged itself and be in the camera body between lens and shutter curtain.

 

[jajong]

Maybe something was wrong during development.
Cheers,
Jan

Of course there wasn't.

 

[Dralowid]

Does the camera have a strip of felt on the mirror mechanism to dampen the 'whack'?

 

[Huss]

Red streaks are indicative of light striking the film from the rear of the camera. ..
PF

Serious question, why would that be? It is light hitting film. Inquiring minds want to know!

Charles' issue looks like a light leak due to a piece of foam breaking off. Which is now appearing in the image.

 

[wpb]

I think the anti-halation backing on the film masks all but the red wavelengths during an unintentional light strike. Yellow marks are usually from in front of the film. Dark marks are usually from an obstruction in front of the film and the more clearly defined the closer the object was to the film itself. Lens based foreign objects are the hardest to diagnose as they are effected by focal length, aperture used and focus distance.

 

[Huss]

I think the anti-halation backing on the film masks all but the red wavelengths during an unintentional light strike. Yellow marks are usually from in front of the film. Dark marks are usually from an obstruction in front of the film and the more clearly defined the closer the object was to the film itself. Lens based foreign objects are the hardest to diagnose as they are effected by focal length, aperture used and focus distance.

Aha! Thank you. Forgot about that layer.

 

[BillBingham2]

Put the shutter on T, take off the lens, fire the shutter and look in through the front.

Might be under the mirror flopping down into the path of light.

The light streak might be a reflection from the magical object of your frustration.

If you don't have T, use B and hold down the shutter release.

B2 (;->

 

[CharlesDAMorgan]

I've had a really good hunt throughout the mirror box, the shutter area, in B mode etc.

As I say I've found only one 3 mm patch of foam missing, certainly it does appear to be a light leak from behind, but for the life of me, I can't account for something this size appearing on my negative!

 

[valdas]

Have you tried another roll? Maybe there was something that is gone by now and that’s why you can’t find it? Shoot a cheap roll of film and see again if it’s there.

 

[Pál_K]

Keeping in mind that the image is inverted, the dark object will be in the lower part of the film gate.

Also, to me, it seems that the object moves - my bet is that the object is attached to one of your shutter blades and moves down slightly as the blades move.

Can you lock the mirror up on an R4s? If so, I suggest removing the lens, lock the mirror up, and trip the shutter while looking from the front.

 

[CharlesDAMorgan]

Have you tried another roll? Maybe there was something that is gone by now and that’s why you can’t find it? Shoot a cheap roll of film and see again if it’s there.

That's the plan.

 

[Pál_K]

Here's something you could try that doesn't cost anything: if you have a smartphone with video, check to see whether you have a "slow motion" option. If so, remove the lens from the R4s and make a slow motion video of the shutter being tripped - it will help to have the smartphone's flash on during the video.

That may reveal something. Your latest photo shows quite a sizeable object!

 

[CharlesDAMorgan]

Here's something you could try that doesn't cost anything: if you have a smartphone with video, check to see whether you have a "slow motion" option. If so, remove the lens from the R4s and make a slow motion video of the shutter being tripped - it will help to have the smartphone's flash on during the video.

That may reveal something. Your latest photo shows quite a sizeable object!

I'll give that a try (I think I have it if not for certain).

But yes, the object's half the height of Buckland Abbey, and that's not a small building!

 

[farlymac]

Hope that's not the shutter brake flopping around.


PF

 

[iphoenix]

Just something out of left field, but could it be possible that a tiny grub or worm has entered your camera's shutter box?
I've been in the automotive industry and have seen these get into the wierdest places.