from the 1930's to the 70's or so, the Leica factory offered "upgrades" from older to new Leica screw mount models.
Show Yours!
Stephen
Show Yours!
Stephen
Dralowid
Michael
I will show off some conversions just as soon as I have managed to sort my PC, which still thinks this site is still under construction.
I can offer two different sorts of black IIIa, a so called 'white dial' II and III, a decidedly unofficial black IIIc and some variations on the original I theme.
My quest is for a black IIIb which is theoretically possible but I have yet to see one that I believe came from the factory. Has anyone got one?
Michael
I can offer two different sorts of black IIIa, a so called 'white dial' II and III, a decidedly unofficial black IIIc and some variations on the original I theme.
My quest is for a black IIIb which is theoretically possible but I have yet to see one that I believe came from the factory. Has anyone got one?
Michael
LeicaTom
Watch that step!
Hmmmmm Black IIIb..........
I would say they are quite rare, I`ve seen Leica II or III black to IIIa, but for them to change the top to a IIIb top on a black camera?
.......that`s just like a "wartime" stepped rewind platform IIIC to IIIFBDST
(Self Timer) conversion.....they just don`t exist, if someone has one that`s documented, I`ll buy it!
Tom
I would say they are quite rare, I`ve seen Leica II or III black to IIIa, but for them to change the top to a IIIb top on a black camera?
.......that`s just like a "wartime" stepped rewind platform IIIC to IIIFBDST
(Self Timer) conversion.....they just don`t exist, if someone has one that`s documented, I`ll buy it!
Tom
Last edited:
MikeL
Go Fish
Here's a Standard converted to a III.
As you can guess from the photo I was planning on selling it, but it works well and didn't need to be adjusted so....
As you can guess from the photo I was planning on selling it, but it works well and didn't need to be adjusted so....
Last edited by a moderator:
Dralowid
Michael
How's about some sweeping generalisations about black conversions:
1 That pre-war conversions are entirely logical in that the upgrading service continued to use the existing body. It is a service we would still like to see offered today.
2 That war time conversions are deeply suspicious. During the early part of the war, production was high and the market somewhat limited. In the latter part of the war I would suggest that the German market had something else on its mind. (I apologise if this offends). Maybe a much higher percentage of production went to the military(?).
3 That postwar conversions start to look very expensive and marginally economically viable. (see any typical II or III to so called II or III white dial, new body/shutter et al.) That III to IIIc conversion on Ebay US recently, though interesting and worth having at a price, is hugely improbable.
I propose that there was something else driving the business of post war conversions. Was it that all new camera manufacture was prioritised for export by beneficial tax incentives? (Like the car industry in the UK at the time). Therefore the only economical route for a German national living in Germany to get an upgraded camera was by way of a conversion?
Discuss...someone put me straight and can I remind you that I am only talking about black cameras.
Michael
1 That pre-war conversions are entirely logical in that the upgrading service continued to use the existing body. It is a service we would still like to see offered today.
2 That war time conversions are deeply suspicious. During the early part of the war, production was high and the market somewhat limited. In the latter part of the war I would suggest that the German market had something else on its mind. (I apologise if this offends). Maybe a much higher percentage of production went to the military(?).
3 That postwar conversions start to look very expensive and marginally economically viable. (see any typical II or III to so called II or III white dial, new body/shutter et al.) That III to IIIc conversion on Ebay US recently, though interesting and worth having at a price, is hugely improbable.
I propose that there was something else driving the business of post war conversions. Was it that all new camera manufacture was prioritised for export by beneficial tax incentives? (Like the car industry in the UK at the time). Therefore the only economical route for a German national living in Germany to get an upgraded camera was by way of a conversion?
Discuss...someone put me straight and can I remind you that I am only talking about black cameras.
Michael
Erik van Straten
Veteran
I also saw that black IIIc on ebay. A conversion from a III into a IIIc is impossible. Black IIIc's do not exist, there is only one example known.
Your theory that Germans could not buy new Leica's in the post war era can hardly be true, taking the ad's in the german photographic magazines of the fifties into consideration. Wirtschaftswunder! Also, the conversions were very expensive ideed!
I think the main reason for the conversions was the installation of a flash sychronisation. Post war conversions without synch are much rarer. I have a black II postwar conversion (without synch) and I love it. I use it with a SCNOO. Wonderful.
Your theory that Germans could not buy new Leica's in the post war era can hardly be true, taking the ad's in the german photographic magazines of the fifties into consideration. Wirtschaftswunder! Also, the conversions were very expensive ideed!
I think the main reason for the conversions was the installation of a flash sychronisation. Post war conversions without synch are much rarer. I have a black II postwar conversion (without synch) and I love it. I use it with a SCNOO. Wonderful.
Last edited:
landsknechte
Well-known
That's not 100% the case. I've got a 1946 IIIc converted to a IIIf, that by definition has to have been done no earlier than the 1950, and it doesn't have the GmbH marking.
jfretless
Established
dralowid,
regarding the problem with your PC... If it still thinks that this site is still under contruction, could be that the browser is not going out to get the current page, but rather grabbing a copy from it's cache. Try the following one should work...
Click "refresh", hit F5 to refresh, hold down the CTRL and click refresh, hold down the shift key and click refresh.
One of those, probably the last two, will force the browser to go out and get the latest copy.
regarding the problem with your PC... If it still thinks that this site is still under contruction, could be that the browser is not going out to get the current page, but rather grabbing a copy from it's cache. Try the following one should work...
Click "refresh", hit F5 to refresh, hold down the CTRL and click refresh, hold down the shift key and click refresh.
One of those, probably the last two, will force the browser to go out and get the latest copy.
beezerc15
shep
hello mike, my coversion is like yours is a 3301 1936 standard upgraded to a 3a at sometime,it was the number that caught my eye. regards john.
Dralowid
Michael
Erik,
Do you or anyone have any copies of invoices or receipts that will help us understand how much these conversions cost? I have many of the original price lists but nothing that would give me a clue as to how much it would cost to have one's camera converted or upgraded.
Also, when discussing conversions, we are focussing on the later cameras. Don't lets loose sight of early conversions of Is of all sorts into later standardised Is. I know that in a collectors world these conversions reduce the value of the original camera but none the less they are of great interest.
Michael
Do you or anyone have any copies of invoices or receipts that will help us understand how much these conversions cost? I have many of the original price lists but nothing that would give me a clue as to how much it would cost to have one's camera converted or upgraded.
Also, when discussing conversions, we are focussing on the later cameras. Don't lets loose sight of early conversions of Is of all sorts into later standardised Is. I know that in a collectors world these conversions reduce the value of the original camera but none the less they are of great interest.
Michael
Erik van Straten
Veteran
Maybe this suits your needs.
This document makes clear that another reason for a conversion was that repair of the oldest cameras could no longer be undertaken under warranty! But the camera's could still be converted.
Also there's a very strange note that a conversion from an original black camera into a chrome one was only possible under special conditions! Strange, because black parts were more expensive to produce than chrome ones.
regards,
Erik.
This document makes clear that another reason for a conversion was that repair of the oldest cameras could no longer be undertaken under warranty! But the camera's could still be converted.
Also there's a very strange note that a conversion from an original black camera into a chrome one was only possible under special conditions! Strange, because black parts were more expensive to produce than chrome ones.
regards,
Erik.
Last edited by a moderator:
Dralowid
Michael
Erik,
Thanks, interesting document. I will post pictures of some of my conversions when I have mastered my pc. Alternatively I may change my name and use a Mac!
Michael
Thanks, interesting document. I will post pictures of some of my conversions when I have mastered my pc. Alternatively I may change my name and use a Mac!
Michael
Dralowid
Michael
Now, why the xxxx can I post but not view attachments?
The site keeps asking me to log in when I am already logged in? Any advice welcome!
Michael
The site keeps asking me to log in when I am already logged in? Any advice welcome!
Michael
ray*j*gun
Veteran
IIIc to a IIIf
IIIc to a IIIf
a IIIf made in 1940's (per Gandy's site).
Ray
IIIc to a IIIf
a IIIf made in 1940's (per Gandy's site).
Ray
Last edited by a moderator:
Dralowid
Michael
I may have shown this one before:
Postwar conversion III to IIIa with 'f type' sync. in different top casing. Body with 'extra lug' (for Leicavit etc?), late winder nob, all chrome and black with late vulcanite. Camera has additional baffles etc within.
I resist the temptation to call this conversion a 'IIIf white dial'.
An interesting point seems to be that later conversions to III of various sorts have a different dioptre 'lever' with a much shorter return than on original IIIs.
Have just acquired a II version of the same type of conversion. Will post pics in due course.
Still find it difficult to accept that these conversions were financially viable.
Michael
Postwar conversion III to IIIa with 'f type' sync. in different top casing. Body with 'extra lug' (for Leicavit etc?), late winder nob, all chrome and black with late vulcanite. Camera has additional baffles etc within.
I resist the temptation to call this conversion a 'IIIf white dial'.
An interesting point seems to be that later conversions to III of various sorts have a different dioptre 'lever' with a much shorter return than on original IIIs.
Have just acquired a II version of the same type of conversion. Will post pics in due course.
Still find it difficult to accept that these conversions were financially viable.
Michael
Erik van Straten
Veteran
Hello Michael!
Beautiful camera, your III converted no. 111145! Beautiful number too. I just love these cameras. Is your shutter release guard real? I've never seen this type. You are right, it has nothing to do with a IIIf. Thank you very much for showing this piece.
I do have a IIa synch, wich does look a lot like this one, but I think III's are much more difficult to find.
Erik.
Beautiful camera, your III converted no. 111145! Beautiful number too. I just love these cameras. Is your shutter release guard real? I've never seen this type. You are right, it has nothing to do with a IIIf. Thank you very much for showing this piece.
I do have a IIa synch, wich does look a lot like this one, but I think III's are much more difficult to find.
Erik.
Dralowid
Michael
Eric,
Thanks.
I think the shutter release guard came with the post war conversion. I have seen them before on conversions of the same age, they are much thicker in my opinion than the original nickel ones and not as tidy.
But watch out for fakes! I have been happily butchering parts from bicycle tyre valves to make shutter collars that are almost convincing if I find one with the right knurling. What is more, they appear to be nickel on brass. They wouldn't fool you lot though.
Michael
Thanks.
I think the shutter release guard came with the post war conversion. I have seen them before on conversions of the same age, they are much thicker in my opinion than the original nickel ones and not as tidy.
But watch out for fakes! I have been happily butchering parts from bicycle tyre valves to make shutter collars that are almost convincing if I find one with the right knurling. What is more, they appear to be nickel on brass. They wouldn't fool you lot though.
Michael
Erik van Straten
Veteran
Michael,
I once found, years ago, a chromed shutter release guard with a small red mark on E-bay. I think that's the original one.
The beauty of these camera's is their wonderful glossy black paint finish. Completely different from the pre-war black cameras.
On most of these cameras the white paint in the engravings became yellow, brown or even green. On your camera it's still white. Can't believe my eyes.
Erik.
I once found, years ago, a chromed shutter release guard with a small red mark on E-bay. I think that's the original one.
The beauty of these camera's is their wonderful glossy black paint finish. Completely different from the pre-war black cameras.
On most of these cameras the white paint in the engravings became yellow, brown or even green. On your camera it's still white. Can't believe my eyes.
Erik.
Dralowid
Michael
Erik,
Yes, the release guard does have a small red mark on it...I'll check the others and report back. The white lettering is just starting to yellow, it is a sort of white cream.
Michael
Yes, the release guard does have a small red mark on it...I'll check the others and report back. The white lettering is just starting to yellow, it is a sort of white cream.
Michael
landsknechte
Well-known
Out of curiosity, do you know how old that document is?