Leica these days (a little rant)

[Ansel]

It is fascinating to see is how much time Leica users spend trying to justify their camera choice..

Well, I was posting some Leica photojournalist pics that where not weddings, in response to:

I thought he said he wanted to be a photojournalist, not a wedding photographer. 😕

p.s. Apple was not taken over by marketing folks, its the other way around. Its success of late is due to the product folks being in charge, its about making the best product.

 

[user237428934]

- prices with no relation with production costs

You have detailed information about the margins they make with selling a camera?

Can you post them? I think no one else on this forum has these infos.

 

[Roger Hicks]

Oh man...sigh. I didn't realize I was a hack. I think my only retort worth saying would be that passion doesn't come from the equipment you use, it comes from the pictures you make. Using a Leica and calling a Canon amateur does not actually make you a better photographer. But what do I know? I'm only a professional photographer working in New York City. We're just a bunch of amateurs with digital SLRs.

Oh and as for my language. How do you even get through the day, man? They say worse on the evening news.

You don't really read very carefully either. Go back to my post where I carefully distinguished "most" from "all". And note that I made no reference to your language, about which I really do not care very much.

Passion is about taking pictures, and most people find that some cameras give them better pictures than others. Otherwise we'd all use camera 'phones. Trying to tell someone that they need a particular camera, based on your own particular prejudices and experience, is meaningless. Telling them that they may find a particular camera works better for them, but equally, that they might not, is another matter.

Cheers,

R.

 

[_lou_]

You have detailed information about the margins they make with selling a camera?

Well, I can only see that another company produces similar products (mind you even slightly better) and sell them for a third of the Leica price. Would the labor cost be so much higher in Portugal than in Japan to justify this ?

 

[Roger Hicks]

Well, I can only see that another company produces similar products (mind you even slightly better) and sell them for a third of the Leica price. Would the labor cost be so much higher in Portugal than in Japan to justify this ?

Really? Who?

Also, rather less of the skilled work is done in Portugal than in Germany.

Cheers,

R.

 

[Mcary]

I demand that all you wealthy "amateurs" personally apologize to myself and everyone else here for choosing to work hard and or choosing a career field that pays well. I mean how dare you be able to afford things like the a new Leica M(240) or Monacrome when I can't
Also don't try telling me a bunch of BS about how you drive a 10 year clunker of that you don't eat out at fancy restaurants or buy expensive new cloths all the time, everyone knows that only wealthy people can afford a Leica these days.

 

[tarullifoto]

This thread is beginning to remind me of the old joke about the Irish guy who walks into a bar, and happens upon a huge brawl. Everyone is throwing punches and taking them. One of the guys lands at his feet, so the Irish guy asks him, "Is this a private fight; or can anybody join?"

 

[Roger Hicks]

I must be a real amateur hack as I just took delivery of two amateur Canon 1dxs, in my experience there are lots of great photographers but the ones that are making a good living are the average photographers with a good business plan!

You are of course absolutely right. It just depends on how much of your soul you want to sell. I've just come back from Arles. Very few of the photographers there are in it for money: almost all are in it for love.

Financial reward is not the sole criterion for measuring success. Most (far from all) of the photographers I know who make 'a good living' are stuck in a frankly boring niche. Or at least, a niche that would bore me silly in a few weeks. Some of the best photographers I have ever met live more or less from hand to mouth, and have never written a business plan in their lives. A few of the best make a lot of money: two I knew were Terence Donovan and Monte Zucker. I never asked them about business plans, though. Money isn't everything.

Cheers,

R.

 

[Roger Hicks]

I demand that all you wealthy "amateurs" personally apologize to myself and everyone else here for choosing to work hard and or choosing a career field that pays well. I mean how dare you be able to afford things like the a new Leica M(240) or Monacrome when I can't
Also don't try telling me a bunch of BS about how you drive a 10 year clunker of that you don't eat out at fancy restaurants or buy expensive new cloths all the time, everyone knows that only wealthy people can afford a Leica these days.

TEN years old? Our newest cars (Peugeot and Seat) are 23 years old. Then there's the 41 year old Land Rover, and on two wheels, the 1978 BMW R100RS and the 1960s Mobylette. This is turning into the famous Monty Python "Four Yorkshiremen" sketch, http://www.phespirit.info/montypython/four_yorkshiremen.htm -- "We lived for three months in a paper bag in a septic tank..."

Cheers,

R.

 

[OurManInTangier]

You are of course absolutely right. It just depends on how much of your soul you want to sell. I've just come back from Arles. Very few of the photographers there are in it for money: almost all are in it for love.

Financial reward is not the sole criterion for measuring success. Most (far from all) of the photographers I know who make 'a good living' are stuck in a frankly boring niche. Or at least, a niche that would bore me silly in a few weeks. Some of the best photographers I have ever met live more or less from hand to mouth, and have never written a business plan in their lives. A few of the best make a lot of money: two I knew were Terence Donovan and Monte Zucker. I never asked them about business plans, though. Money isn't everything.

Cheers,

R.

In my case, just enough to keep my wife from making me work in a Bank ( I did that when I was trying to start out and loathed the monotony of it, that is one thing that even the most pedestrian professional photography can avoid, every day can be different...or at least a little different.)

I ease my wounded soul with my personal photography - not that I'd expect anyone else to see the torment within😉

 

[SaveKodak]

I demand that all you wealthy "amateurs" personally apologize to myself and everyone else here for choosing to work hard and or choosing a career field that pays well. I mean how dare you be able to afford things like the a new Leica M(240) or Monacrome when I can't
Also don't try telling me a bunch of BS about how you drive a 10 year clunker of that you don't eat out at fancy restaurants or buy expensive new cloths all the time, everyone knows that only wealthy people can afford a Leica these days.

Absolutely not what this thread is about. It's about running a commercial photography business and whether or not Leica digital is a wise choice considering the expense. Try again, smug rich dude/

 

[jsrockit]

Absolutely not what this thread is about. It's about running a commercial photography business and whether or not Leica digital is a wise choice considering the expense. Try again, smug rich dude/

I believe he was joking... 😀

 

[Roger Hicks]

In my case, just enough to keep my wife from making me work in a Bank ( I did that when I was trying to start out and loathed the monotony of it, that is one thing that even the most pedestrian professional photography can avoid, every day can be different...or at least a little different.)

I ease my wounded soul with my personal photography - not that I'd expect anyone else to see the torment within😉

Ah, another Monty Python sketch:

He's joined the ranks of the living dead!

You don't mean...

Yes. He's become a chartered accountant.

(I survived articles for three months. Then I went to the training partner and said, "I don't think I was cut out to be a chartered accountant." He said, "I wouldn't argue with that.")

Cheers,

R.

 

[Roger Hicks]

I bought my first two Leica cameras—a IIf and IIc, with an Elmar 3.5cm f/3.5 and Elmar 5.0cm f/3.5—for $99 in 1969.

A couple of years later, I almost bought a Ferrari 250SWB Scaglietti for $5000—would have bankrupted me, but I'd have enjoyed the Ferrari (someone else got there first). I bought a Lamborghini 350GT instead, which almost bankrupted me. But I really enjoyed the Lambo while I owned it.

Money and price mean little. If I don't have the money for something, I don't get it. No big deal. If I don't have the money for something essential, like paying the rent or whatever, then I work harder to make more money, and/or sell off the non-essential stuff I've accreted.

Cameras are just so much stuff, in the end.

G

Dear Godfrey,

Highlight 1: Very wise.

Highlight 2: Not everyone has this option, though. A schoolteacher or an ambulance driver just can't. And demand (and payment) for books & magazine articles are so variable that I don't really have the option either.

And, of course, there are those of us who'd rather have the time and freedom rather than working harder at something we don't like. As long as we can eat, keep a roof over our heads, etc., we're happy to live on less. Less stuff, as you so accurately depict it. But are cameras just stuff? For some of us, photography is a part of what we do, even of who we are. And for photography, you need at least one camera...

Cheers,

R.

 

[Godfrey]

...
Highlight 2: Not everyone has this option, though. A schoolteacher or an ambulance driver just can't. And demand (and payment) for books & magazine articles are so variable that I don't really have the option either.

And, of course, there are those of us who'd rather have the time and freedom rather than working harder at something we don't like. As long as we can eat, keep a roof over our heads, etc., we're happy to live on less. Less stuff, as you so accurately depict it. But are cameras just stuff? For some of us, photography is a part of what we do, even of who we are. And for photography, you need at least one camera...

Everyone can exercise choice. My friend who is a highly sought after physicist through one thing or another ran into some financial trouble. He took a job working a couple of evenings a week at a clothing store restocking shelves. Did it for two years, paid off his debts, and actually enjoyed the exercise of simple, manual work without need for creative engagement. Didn't make much money at it, but it was enough to cover his problems and bootstrap him back into reality.

Choices. They're not always sacrifices. I don't hold to things very tightly.

Myself ... I've been broke and I've been flush many times in my life. I've taken some risks along the way, and some have paid and others not. Through it all, I have not been without a camera since I was eight years old. Sometimes it was only one rather cheap camera. Other times, like now, it's an overflowing cabinet full of fabulous stuff. Sometimes I could only afford to shoot negatives and look at them with a loupe. But doing photography is what I do, a part of who I am.

The equipment, however, is always just stuff.

G

"Equipment is transitory. Photographs endure."

 

[Roger Hicks]

Everyone can exercise choice. . . .]

Indeed. For many, a rational choice is (a) not getting into debt and (b) not selling their free time to acquire more stuff.

And, for example, a very good friend of mine (I was best man at his wedding) is a builder. Physically exhausting work. How much 'choice' has he about working more?

Cheers,

R.

 

[jsrockit]

Whereas I prefer to stick with the stuff that I know and enjoy using, rather than (as I see it) wasting time and money piddling around with different stuff all the time. My Leicas are a good example. So is my Land Rover (unchanged in well over a decade). Neither attitude is superior, though there are many who will try to convince you otherwise.

Roger, forgive me for being blunt, but you are an older man. Many of us still have to figure out things by piddling around until we know what we enjoy using. I'm 39 and I'm still working things out (though not as bad as 20 years ago). Some people on here are 20 years old and are just starting with the process.

 

[Roger Hicks]

Roger, forgive me for being blunt, but you are an older man. Many of us still have to figure out things by piddling around until we know what we enjoy using. I'm 39 and I'm still working things out (though not as bad as 20 years ago). Some people on here are 20 years old and are just starting with the process.

You are immediately and unhesitatingly forgiven, because you are absolutely right. Remember Dr. Johnson: "Our tastes greatly alter. The young man does not care for the child's rattle, and the old man does not care for the young man's whore."

Cheers,

R.

 

[Bruno Gracia]

Probably if I have childs my Grandchild will use my MP

 

[peterm1]

quote

Originally Posted by Roger Hicks
You are immediately and unhesitatingly forgiven, because you are absolutely right. Remember Dr. Johnson: "Our tastes greatly alter. The young man does not care for the child's rattle, and the old man does not care for the young man's whore."

Cheers,

R.

I agree with exactly half that statement. 😉