Lens choices

3dit0r

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Ah, I hate to do this to y'all, but I need some help choosing a lens setup for a Leica M6 TTL or M7 (I miss using a Leica, and film, so going to buy another and run it alongside my X-T1, with the digital doing what Leica-M doesn't do easily - macro, long telephoto, and low-light).

So, the dreaded lens choices come up and I'd really appreciate some advice, as my needs are slightly different to the last time I was using a rangefinder. My photography ranges from casual people/street photography while in cities or travelling, to landscape/seascapes at home.

Previously, I had an M6TTL and 35 summicron pre-asph, 50 summicron-M pre-asph, and a 90 Elmarit-M. In those days my most used lens was the 35, but, since moving to digital full-frame, my preferences over the years have changed quite a bit, with a fast 50mm by far used for most shots (yes, even landscapes and portraits!), only changing to something wider (say 24, 35) when I can't move back, or when I want to emphasise a foreground element in, say, a landscape shot or get a deliberately exaggerated perspective on something like a 17.

I have to say, when I used wide angle zooms (17-40, 14-24) I had a lot of fun, but generally find the wider end is a little too unnatural for my eye - I only have a couple of shots from those lenses which suited well and I printed big. So I'm little more wary of using such lenses on a rangefinder as I find I need to be super careful with framing and positioning at that FL so as to minimise perspective distortions to buildings, etc., and that's hard enough with an SLR showing you exactly what you get.

I do use telephoto lenses quite a bit for landscapes, to isolate an area of interest, or for compression.

Another consideration is weight and filter size - trying to keep that the same, if possible, and second hand cost - none of these lenses will be bought new if Leica, although new ZM are in my price range.

My current thinking is either 4 lenses-
21, 28, 50, 90

Or three lenses-
24(or 25), 50, 90

The advantage of the first set is that I think I can either move my feet or slightly crop without losing too much quality by heavy cropping. Also that 21 only used occasionally so the 'main three' lenses covered by internal VF is nice. Perhaps VC 21/4 for the 21, likely only to be used occasionally for landscape, the rest either Leica or Zeiss. Also I believe with Leica 28 2.8, 50/2, 90 2.8 I could use a 39mm filter for every lens(?).

The advantage of the second set is its lighter and cheaper, and I'm likely to use 24 more than 21, although perhaps less than 28. My fear is there's quite a jump between 24-50 which, if you can move feet might result in too heavy a crop for 35mm to take and print to a reasonable size? I could always add a 35 into the second set, which would probably be my first choice as a 'one lens' kit for light city walks?

What I have no experience of is FLs which are wider than the internal finder in a .72 Leica. Can you really see a 24/25mm by just squinting around the very outside of the VF?

Only other requirement is that the 50mm has great oof quality as I use it a lot for most portraits, etc., doesn't have to be quantity (f/2 is fine as I'll usually stop down to there to stand a chance of both eyes being in focus anyway).

What a long, rambling post. If anyone got to the end of that without losing the will to live, I'd really appreciate your thoughts!

James
 
Based on your choices, you might want to consider a .85 finder as it would be a treat for 50/90. The three lens setup seems a better option. I've been able to get a 46mm setup with Leica, 24mm elmarit, 35mm summilux, 50mm summilux, and 75mm summarit f/2.4.

I'd focus on what your most used focal length will be, let's say 50mm. And try the voigtlander f/1.5, Zeiss f/2 to see if you can get along with either of those. Then your next focal length. You might find you end up with a two lens kit and it might be 35/50! I never found 90mm to be to my liking on M.
 
Hello,

Why not begin with only one lens (may it be a Summicron 50mm), then later complete the set with some lenses as need be.

Or another "non-solution", a Tri-Elmar-M 28-35-50 with a 21mm AND 90mm.

This set is my "all round set": 21 Elmarit-M asph or S-A 4/21 (for compactness and E39 filter), MATE, Macro-Elmar-M 90 .

With almost all time the MATE on the body.

Arnaud
 
My personal choices are weird, but I'm crazy. They would be a Konica M-Hexanon 28mm/f2.8, a Konica UC Hexanon 35mm/f2 in LTM, a Canon 50mm/f1.4 in LTM, a Leica Summilux 75mm/f1.4 and a Nikkor-P 85mm/f2 in LTM. They're my most-used lenses at each focal length. (OK, so I use more 50mm lenses than that; I use lots of different 50s and love them all for their differences and quirks.) But that's just me. I wouldn't use a lens wider than 28mm with a .72 finder (in fact not even with my Hexar RF's .60x finder) without an external finder. But (a) I wear glasses so YMMV; and (b) I'm crazy.

A more rational choice (but don't trust me) would be whatever 28mm takes your fancy (I generally can't see past my M-Hex, but I have a CV Ultron which is nice; I tried but didn't like the ZM 28mm/f2.8), a ZM 35mm/f2 Biogon, a ZM C-Sonnar 50mm/f1.5 (a really nice lens, with quirks; if you can live with f2 the M-Hex and ZM Planar are both great lenses pretty much without quirks) and whatever 90mm that suits you (I've never used a non-quirky 90; and only use 75mm because I can't get past the love of my Lux).

...Mike
 
As I've always said: the best lens is the one mounted on the camera.
At sometime, not so long ago, I had dozen of 50mm for "M" mount (Summar with adapter of course, Elmar, Lux, Cron,Nocti, Hexanon, Jupiter, Canon, etc.),
they are all "good enough for me and my photogs": I could not choose only one.
So now a WATE is the lens to go...
 
Since you have other cameras as well, I'd go more slowly and buy one lens with the Leica, or maybe two.

A kit of 35 or 50 plus a 90 works well for a lot of purposes... pick either a 35 or a 50 and add a 90. Sounds like you'd prefer a 50 at the moment.

I have two 50s: the VC Color Skopar 50mm f/2.5 and VC Nokton 50mm f/1.5 ASPH. Both work beautifully on film or digital. I usually have the Nokton on my M-P and the Color Skopar on my M4-2. Sometimes, I turn that around. 🙂

For a 35, I used the diminutive Color Skopar 35mm f/2.5 P for a long time and was never unhappy with it on either film or digital. The lure of a faster 35 struck me, but I already had the Leica X with its superb modern lens so I didn't want to buy something that just replicated what that did. I decided on a Summilux 35 v2—the classic pre-ASPH Mandler lens. It was expensive, but worth every penny.

For a 90mm, I've been using the M-Rokkor 90mm f/4 (same as the Elmar-C 90mm f/4, both produced for the Leica CL; both were made on the same production line in Wetzlar until Leica discontinued the CL, then the same lens was made by Minolta in Japan for the CLE). This is another diminutive and excellent performer on both film and digital.

For wider, it's a matter of choice and budget. RF ultra-wides often have some issues on digital and the best performers there tend to be the newer, pricier options. On film, there is much more that works well. Personally, I've had a 15mm and found it a bit wider than I was comfortable with, a 20-21mm seems to work very well for me as does a 24-25mm.

I started with the Color Skopar 21/4 and Ultron 28/2. They both work well on film, but both have some issues on digital bodies (the Leica M9 and Sony A7 I used them on anyway; they both did extremely well with the Ricoh GXR). I later acquired a Color Skopar 28/3.5, which worked superbly on film and on the GXR but again has some issues on the M9/A7. Moving to the M-P, the CS28 does better than on the M9, but I was not in love with the Ultron 28/2 or CS21/4 on it.

I decided the best all rounder for me was a 24 which would work well on both digital and film, so I sold the CS21 and UL28, went for the Elmar-M 24/3.8 ASPH new: it is a terrific lens. I kept the CS28 for the M4-2.​

Using wider than a 35 on either M-P or M4-2, I can't see the framelines for even a 28 with the M-P due to my glasses and of course they don't exist in the M4-2. With 24 or 28, I either wing it—approximating the FoV in my head and shooting loosely—or fit an accessory viewfinder. With the M4-2, that's one of either a Ricoh VF-1 for the CS28 or a Voigtlander 21/25 Brightline for the EM24. With the M-P, I fit the accessory EVF. (Approximating the FoV works pretty well most of the time when you're in casual street shooting mode, once you're familiar with the lens, but if you're the type of person who wants/needs precise framing, you'll want to buy an accessory viewfinder.)

But as I said before, I'd go slow and pick one or two lenses at first, then add another when it seemed comfortable, and maybe another again after that when it was clear what you want. I find choosing the right ultrawide much harder than the 35/50/90 set, so I usually leave that to last and take my time at it.

enjoy
G
 
In "real life" shooting, if you like the 50mm FL like me, you only need a 28mm and an 85-90mm. 28/50 is a classic combo that can accomplish most of things, and this is usually what I have on me when I go out with the intention of shooting generic stuff. A 90mm is very useful, but to be completely frank, it would pay to get a separate SLR body with one of these just for the sake of not fiddling with lens changes on the fly. A suggestion could be Contax Aria with the Sonnar 85/2.8, which BTW is the same optics as the Contax G 90/2.8. Compact camera, compact lens, top quality, all camera functions present apart AF.
In the 28 and 50mm camp there are many great choices. For a no compromise duo you would have to go for a Summicron 28 and Summilux 50 ASPH, but there are plenty other lenses that are great, depending on your personal taste. Elmarit 28 ASPH is super compact and super sharp for example, and a Planar 50, Summicron 50 or even Summarit 50 are all top notch all round lenses. Personally, unless I need speed I prefer the Elmar M 50/2.8 v2 over anything else.
 
I agree that a 24mm is more useful all-around than 21mm. But I would not go from 24 to 50mm with nothing in between; I agree it's too big a step. I think a good solution is to step from 24mm to 35mm. Then adding a 50mm would make sense, since you like that focal length. Now you have three lenses where each wider lens covers exactly twice the image area as the preceding one (square root of two relationship).

Then the question is what to add for the longest lens. You could add a 90, but of course you are back to four lenses again. One idea is to use a 75mm in place of the 50. Then you have, 24-35-75. A three lens kit that should get the job done--if you don't mind giving up the 50. The 50mm finder frame on the M6TTL and M7 (and MP) is very undersized, much more so than the others, making the 50mm very easy to leave behind when going with minimal gear.
 
For a 21mm, go for the Skopar 21/4... yes, it's slow... but it's a great lens on film (I don't know about digital) for a great price (+ it's tiny!). You would have to pay a lot more for not that much more performance. The 'old' LTM Skopar uses 39mm filters (the M Mount one is the same lens inside). I think the M mount Voigtländer lenses and most of the Zeiss lenses use 43mm filters.

Maybe a Zeiss Sonnar or Planar for the 50mm? Sonnar = more character, faster; Planar = more clinical perfection
 
Thanks for all these guys - some very useful thoughts I hadn't considered. One or two posts made me think of something I hadn't considered; with the crop factor of the X-T1, I could potentially use the Leica glass instead of native (the X-T1 has the best imolementation of digital MF I've ever seen - the split screen mode actually works a treat). What I'm thinking is it might allow me to 'lose' the 90mm, as whatever fast 50mm I go for becomes essentially a 75 (in FOV if not DOF).

Does that sound crazy?

If I had a fast 35mm, that would become my 'normal' lens on the X-T1, and potentially I'd only have to buy a native Macro to cover every eventuality? Just throwing that out there...

So I could potentially end up with 24, 35, 50 (which cover approx. 36, 50, 75 on the X-T1) and maybe a macro tell-zoom x-mount native, if such exists?

Like the idea of a 50 1.5 C Sonnar, looks like it has loads of character, but sharp when stopped down.
 
with a fast 50mm by far used for most shots (yes, even landscapes and portraits!), only changing to something wider (say 24, 35) when I can't move back, or when I want to emphasise a foreground element in, say, a landscape shot or get a deliberately exaggerated perspective on something like a 17.
\...\

I do use telephoto lenses quite a bit for landscapes, to isolate an area of interest, or for compression.
This is exactly what I use my lenses for as well; got the 50/1.4 ASPH for pretty much everything, Elmarit-M 90 for landscapes and occational portrait and the CV 21/4 for emphasizing foreground, I've had these three lenses for a few years now and I consider it a perfect kit.
High image quality, great versatility and light enough for carrying.

The only thing I miss is a compact 50 (like a coll. cron or elmarit) when I just want to carry the camera in my coat pocket, and I'm quite interested in the 21/1.8 just for fun - but know I wouldn't use it enough to justify the cost.

I believe you could replace the summilux with the version 2 nokton (.7 m close focus) without loosing out on much, but it wasn't available when I got my lux.
 
...I could potentially use the Leica glass instead of native...
Does that sound crazy?

Not at all! If you like the manual focus on the camera body, then it makes sense to me.

PM me once you settle on things. I might have a 24mm, fast 35mm, and M6 classic in .85 to sell...
 
This is exactly what I use my lenses for as well; got the 50/1.4 ASPH for pretty much everything, Elmarit-M 90 for landscapes and occational portrait and the CV 21/4 for emphasizing foreground, I've had these three lenses for a few years now and I consider it a perfect kit.
High image quality, great versatility and light enough for carrying.

The only thing I miss is a compact 50 (like a coll. cron or elmarit) when I just want to carry the camera in my coat pocket, and I'm quite interested in the 21/1.8 just for fun - but know I wouldn't use it enough to justify the cost.

I believe you could replace the summilux with the version 2 nokton (.7 m close focus) without loosing out on much, but it wasn't available when I got my lux.

That's interesting - to be honest, if I were able to make that three lens combo work, with the price of the VC 21/4 and 90 Elmarit, I could probably splurge on a second hand 50 Lux Asph and be happy with that for most of my photography. I'd still be wondering if the gap from 21 to 50 might be a little much, but I wouldn't be too fussed about a slower 28 perhaps, maybe a VC one. Thanks for this.
 
Having thought about it, with the benefit of these suggestions, I'm now leaning towards a fast 35 and 50, which can also double up on the X-T1 as normal and portrait for lower light use, with a macro adapter, and then one wider lens, either 21/4 or 24/25 2.8.

I would then add a true tele later, either a 90 2.8 or even just stick to a tele zoom on the X-T1, as it probably would do true tele work better than the rangefinder, and it's a more occasional use for me.

Then I'll have to try and resist getting an M9 as my digital body, once I have all that lovely M glass 😉
 
My most used fl is 35, followed by 50mm. I supplement them with a 21 (originally a 24 Elmar f2.8 - superb). I find this 21/35/50 combo is really all I need. I rarely pull out the 90/4.
I've had a 28mm Summcron for a long time and rarely used it. I'm going to spend the year using it along with a 50 lux or Summicron for a two body combo. I Really like the way this 28 draws, and it's a very sharp lens. In the past I've read, and now I concur, the 28 Summicron is an excellent companion to the 50 Lux Asph. I wonder if I'll become confident enough to take the 28/50 combo alone on a holiday trip. We'll see.
(I only use film)
Pete

28 Summicron:

Scan-150527-0034 by Pete, on Flickr

Scan-150527-0036 by Pete, on Flickr

Scan-150527-0035 by Pete, on Flickr
 
Pete, thanks for that. Those photos are excellent - you're right, the 28 'cron, which is not a lens I'd ever considered, does draw very nicely indeed. Hm...

Thinking back, my first 'real' photographic trip was when I went to the National Parks on the West Coast USA. In those days I just had an old Minolta Dynax 5xi (iirc) and the 28-80 kit zoom, which looking back now probably wasn't really sharp at any FL or aperture! Nonetheless, still some of my favourite photos come from that trip. Now much of that is down to the places, to be sure, but my point is I never remember coming across a view there where I didn't think 28mm wasn't wide enough for me.

Having said that, now I've had wider lenses, I might, but probably very occasionally. I'll definitely consider that 28-cron now I've seen some images though, as I say, I'd totally overlooked it, but that now seems unfair on what is clearly a lovely lens!
 
It's funny, when I used SLRs, I felt I couldn't leave the house without everything from 15 to 300mm equivalent. Since using Leica rangefinders, my whole style of photography has changed and I've found my lens choice narrowing. I very rarely want anything longer than 50, and, up until using this 28/2 the other day, anything wider than 35mm.
You mention viewfinders. I enjoy using external viewfinders with wide angles (and the SBOOI transforms the experience of using a Leica 111f). I use the metal Voigtlander 28mm viewfinder, and the Zeiss 21mm VF on Leica M(I originally had the metal Voigt 21/25 viewfinder but found it a little cluttered).
Incidently, the 111f, a voigt 35 color skopar, and a Leica SBLOO is a superb little combo, and has become my ski touring kit replacing my OM1.......but you've enough to think about ;-)
Pete
 
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