Honus
carpe diem
I'm new to this forum looking for help. I just purchased a 9+ IIIc on eBay for $215 and want to match a 50mm lens with it. I have promised my wife I would keep the kit to about $500, so I have about $300 left for a lens.
Background: For the last year or so I have used a Leica Digilux 2. I like the D2, but really want to spend time with a pure rangefinder and b&w film. I want DOF control, and only shoot with available light. I shoot both street photography and landscapes. Hell, I shoot anything that is in front of me
For a lens choice, I am currently thinking either a nice used Elmar, or a new 1.5 Nokton. The Elmar is obviously a good match with the IIIc, but lacks speed. The Nokton is bigger and heavier, but is a much newer design and has significantly more speed.
I realize that a question such as this is liable to make my decision much more complicated, rather than easier, but isn't that what forums like this are for?
Cheers
Background: For the last year or so I have used a Leica Digilux 2. I like the D2, but really want to spend time with a pure rangefinder and b&w film. I want DOF control, and only shoot with available light. I shoot both street photography and landscapes. Hell, I shoot anything that is in front of me
For a lens choice, I am currently thinking either a nice used Elmar, or a new 1.5 Nokton. The Elmar is obviously a good match with the IIIc, but lacks speed. The Nokton is bigger and heavier, but is a much newer design and has significantly more speed.
I realize that a question such as this is liable to make my decision much more complicated, rather than easier, but isn't that what forums like this are for?
Cheers
richard_l
Well-known
I would try to find a nice Summitar (50mm f/2) or Summarit (50mm f/1.5). Either will give you good DOF control, and they are both sharp. I would rather have the Summitar for a general purpose lens on a IIIc since it is smaller and lighter than the Summarit. The Nocton is a good lens, but somehow it seems inappropriate for a Barnack camera.
aizan
Veteran
ditto the summitar.
ddutchison
Well-known
I kind of like the idea of mating a 60 year old camera with a completely modern aspherical lens. You might want to try it out for fit first, as it's a big lens for a IIIc (bigger than an Elmar anyway) - it might block too much of the viewfinder. Even then, an auxiliary finder on a IIIc isn't too much of a hassle as the RF and VF are separate entities anyway.
Also, there's a couple of 50mm Summicrons (rigid and collapsible) for sale here in the camera classifieds ("Leica Glass thread", not sure if they're thread mount.), they're in your budget too. I'd think that if you're only going to have one lens for a while, a fast one would be the best choice..
Also, there's a couple of 50mm Summicrons (rigid and collapsible) for sale here in the camera classifieds ("Leica Glass thread", not sure if they're thread mount.), they're in your budget too. I'd think that if you're only going to have one lens for a while, a fast one would be the best choice..
R
rich815
Guest
I have a Summitar 50/2 and love it. My vote too. Two examples shot with my 50 'tar attached.
I vote for the Summitar or Summarit too. Both can give you a "classic" looking image from your classic camera.
If you really want the speed, you might also look at the Canon and Nikkor lenses in Leica Thread Mount. The Canon 50mm F1.4 and Nikkor 5cm F1.4 were both found on many classic Leica's "in the day". They are smaller lenses than the modern Nokton. They run $200~$300 depending on condition and your luck. They are shorter than the Summarit. The Summarit is "softer" wide-Open and gets sharp at F4. It's a great existing-light portrait lens. None of these fast lenses collapse, so they are not as compact when not in use as is the Summitar or Elmar. The Canon 50mm F1.9 lens will collapse, and can be found for less than the Summitar. The Canon 50mm F1.8 is a little slower than the F1.4 "big brothers", but is very sharp wide open and is smaller and lighter. It can also be found $125~$175.
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richard_l
Well-known
Oh, man! That's what I call sharp! People don't realize how good these older lenses are. The Summicron may have "better" performance wide open (depending on one's definition of "better"rich815 said:
), but stopped down a bit it's not significantly sharper than your Summitar.It's a similar situation with the 35mm Summaron vs. the 35mm Summicron, but people are beginning to appreciate the excellence of the Summaron, and it's driving up prices.
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I will offer one more possibility along with the non Leica options Brian mentions. A Canon 50/1.5 is more contemporary with the IIIc, is truly a small fast excellent lens (maybe my favorite actually).
Agree about the Canon 5cm F1.5. It is very sharp and a bit better behaved than the Nikkor wide-open regarding "out-of-focus" areas. -Smoother Bokeh-
It is also the most difficult to find and probably the most expensive of the lenses mentioned in the thread- except for the Rigid Summicron in Thread Mount. The Canon F1.5 and Nikkor F1.4 are both "copies" of the Zeiss Sonnar. The Canon F1.4 is a "Xenon" formula lens, and the Summarit is a modified "Xenon".
It is also the most difficult to find and probably the most expensive of the lenses mentioned in the thread- except for the Rigid Summicron in Thread Mount. The Canon F1.5 and Nikkor F1.4 are both "copies" of the Zeiss Sonnar. The Canon F1.4 is a "Xenon" formula lens, and the Summarit is a modified "Xenon".
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And why haven't we mentioned a Chrome barreled Canon 50/1.8 which can be found for $200 or less? Another handsome small sharp lens.
I mentioned the Canon 50mm F1.8! I just bought one here at RFF for $125.
The few lenses not mentioned were the 50mm f1.2: just BIG on a classic Leica, and the 50mm F2 Summar: soft wide-open and fall-off at the edges, mostly a problem for color film. The Summitar was brought out to replace the Summar when color film became more popular (as Per "The Leica Manual" by Lester and Morgan). The Summar can be found under $100.
See this thread for discussion on fast optics.
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9614
Lots of wide-open shots with the Nikkor 5cm F1.4, and some with the Summarit are here:
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9602
The few lenses not mentioned were the 50mm f1.2: just BIG on a classic Leica, and the 50mm F2 Summar: soft wide-open and fall-off at the edges, mostly a problem for color film. The Summitar was brought out to replace the Summar when color film became more popular (as Per "The Leica Manual" by Lester and Morgan). The Summar can be found under $100.
See this thread for discussion on fast optics.
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9614
Lots of wide-open shots with the Nikkor 5cm F1.4, and some with the Summarit are here:
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9602
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N
Nikon Bob
Guest
Another vote for the Summitar or an Elmar.
Bob
Bob
hth
Well-known
I vote for a small lens.
/Håkan
/Håkan
Graybeard
Longtime IIIf User
I'd suggest the 50mm/f2 Nikkor or the 50mm/1.8 Canon(aka Serenar). Both are excellent optics, are compact in size, and can be found for $200 or less. If you have a choice, go for the Nikkor; the 40mm filters for the Canon are difficult to find.
The 50mm/f1.4 Canon is a large lens and, IMHO, a compact camera such as a Barnack Leica should have a compact lens to best be enjoyed (the 1.4 Nikkor is quite a bit smaller). The 50mm/1.5 Nokton is a sharp as a razor fully open but is also a large lens.
You might consider also picking up a Russian 50mm/f3.5 in addition to one of the other lenses mentioned here or elsewhere in this thread. They are inexpensive and quite good optically. A Barnack Leica was meant to have a collapsible lens (at least part of the time) and you will enjoy using it.
The 50mm/f1.4 Canon is a large lens and, IMHO, a compact camera such as a Barnack Leica should have a compact lens to best be enjoyed (the 1.4 Nikkor is quite a bit smaller). The 50mm/1.5 Nokton is a sharp as a razor fully open but is also a large lens.
You might consider also picking up a Russian 50mm/f3.5 in addition to one of the other lenses mentioned here or elsewhere in this thread. They are inexpensive and quite good optically. A Barnack Leica was meant to have a collapsible lens (at least part of the time) and you will enjoy using it.
S
Skinny McGee
Guest
If you are going to use mostly B+W film then don't rule out the Elmar3.5 just push the film up
peter_n
Veteran
Yes don't rule out the Elmar, I have a lovely one but you are limited at f3.5 and you are looking for DOF control. It is however a superb lens. The Summarit at f1.5 gives you most DOF effect but they can run over your budget awfully easily. I think your best bet is the Summitar, it has f2, is collapsible, and they sell at reasonable prices. Look in the classifieds here or over on photo.net, and if you don't see what you want put out a WTB notice on both forums. Buying an older lens on eBay can be dodgy.
BTW welcome to the forum Honus!
BTW welcome to the forum Honus!
Brian Sweeney said:
So you did. My bad.
Graybeard said:
See, there are lots of less expensive options. I have been shopping a little bit for an f2 Nikkor. Another Sonnar copy and highly regarded. They have been selling for closer to $250 recently from what I have seen.
Honus, as you can see none of us here have preferences...
The Summarit usually goes fairly cheaply, less than the Elmar. It does have a tendency to develop Haze on the interior coating, which usually can be "deep-cleaned" as I was told by Essex. Each of my Summarits ran under $240 including the cost of the CLA. As most people use this lens without investing the $80 to have it cleaned, it gets a "bum Rap". It also gets "cleaning marks" as the coating is softer than what Canon and Nikon used. These have no real impact on image quality. It is a big lens.
The Summarit usually goes fairly cheaply, less than the Elmar. It does have a tendency to develop Haze on the interior coating, which usually can be "deep-cleaned" as I was told by Essex. Each of my Summarits ran under $240 including the cost of the CLA. As most people use this lens without investing the $80 to have it cleaned, it gets a "bum Rap". It also gets "cleaning marks" as the coating is softer than what Canon and Nikon used. These have no real impact on image quality. It is a big lens.