Less Expensive Alternatives to CV 21 & 25?

tedwhite said:
Doug:

I wish I could look through both the 21 and 25. Would be easier to make the decision. I can only afford one.

Ted

There's a page with pre-visualization tricks somewhere, we you can visualize a 21 or a 25 by using a blank 35mm slide mount, attaching piece of string to it, and marking off distances of 21mm & 25mm (and also the regular 35mm, 50mm and other such frequently used focal lengths). By holding the slide mount 21mm away from your eye, you'd see what a 21mm lense would see, same with the 25mm mark.

Of course, I also have a 15-30mm zoom on my EOS film camera so I don't have that problem.
 
Well, it can be a tough choice. The 25mm Snapshot Skopar has an angle of view of 82 degrees, while the 21mm sees 90 degrees (diagonally). I think anything much wider than 21mm is getting into weird territory, along with the fisheye lenses! I have a 15 that doesn't see much use, but not a 21. I do have a 22-equivalent in medium format that I like a lot, and the 25mm Skopar was most useful on a tourist visit to southern Spain. I had 15, 40, and 90 with me too, that time, and I essentially had to be forced by circumstances to use the 15.

Extreme wide-angle lenses demand extra work from the photographer; they can be difficult to use effectively. Wider is harder. In regard to the 25mm, I have to admit that I later got a 28mm lens that is coupled... Because I was starting a project of indoor environmental portraits, wide-open close-up, and felt better with RF coupling, and further because the camera I wanted to use has parallax-corrected framelines for 28. With the f/4 21mm, neither reason would be valid I think. Greater DoF, and an external viewfinder needed in any case.

You might do some searches in the RFF Gallery to seek out 21mm shots to look at, and also 24 & 25mm shots. Might give you a better feel for how they're each used. I even once went to the extreme of buying a 21mm viewfinder to look at the world, to check if I "needed" that angle of view. It turned out I didn't get the 21...
 
Ted, I got my L from ebay. I had intended to get one from Mr Gandy but saw this new one (I'm in the UK) and opted for the BIN option as the cost was similar. I too will have to flog/trade some gear if i'm to buy a brand new 25/4 lens unless anyone here has one they're willing to part with. Anyone need an OM-2 Spot/Prog or an XA?

Paul
 
Hmm. Tough choices here. I had a 24/2.8 with my Minolta Maxxum AF system. Bought it in '86. It was my most often used lens. Learned how to use it so that I minimized or eliminated any strange effects.

There's always a learning curve with a new camera and lens. If you look in my gallery at the coffee shop crowd shot with a borrowed-for-a-day Leica M2 with 21/4 Super Angulon you can see how distorted the woman on the left is. I didn't see it in the viewfinder, but again, I had no practice looking through it.

I would probably be happy with the 25 as a dedicated lens for the Bessa L. The drill for using it street shooting would no doubt be similar to using my XA, as its rangefinder is so dim as to be virtually useless. I estimate distance and F stop (the XA selects the shutter speed), raise the camera quickly to eye level, frame and shoot. With the Bessa the only difference would be the additional selection of shutter speed plus pressing slightly the shutter release to get the meter reading.

Are the little external meter lights bright enough to be visible outdoors in sunlight?

Ted
 
tedwhite said:
I estimate distance and F stop (the XA selects the shutter speed), raise the camera quickly to eye level, frame and shoot. With the Bessa the only difference would be the additional selection of shutter speed plus pressing slightly the shutter release to get the meter reading.

Are the little external meter lights bright enough to be visible outdoors in sunlight?

Ted

Absolutely! The LEDs are quite bright - that's the way I try to use my Bessa L & 25/4 - make a reading once in a while, have the focus pre-set, and then just frame & shoot...

Roman
 
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I've got sweaty palms, folks (always get 'em when I'm nervous, tense, anxious....waiting).

Just ordered the Bessa L and the "Snapshot" (jeez, what a name) 25/4 Skopar. I was leaning toward the 21/4, but it was about $85 more. And just for another 4mm. Whereas, over the 35/2.5, that's currently on my Bessa R, I picked up a whole 10mm.

Never was much good at logic and math, but as a rationalization it works for me.

But I noticed as I was doing some house-under-construction interiors for a client, that the 35mm just wasn't wide enough.

Plus the whole Idea of street shooting with the "L" and the 25/4 sounds like, well, fun.

Ted
 
Congratulations, Ted, on your move! A good economical package with an excellent sharp lens. With previous 24mm experience, you should have only pleasant surprises! Here's a recent one of mine, a duplex due for demolition...
 
Doug: Noticed where you live. Would that by any chance be La Grande? Eastern Washington State Univ. is there, right. My significant other went there for a semester buy found it a bit cold. My very good friend John Scott abandoned Bisbee for La Grande last year (he's an organic vegetable farmer and the soil here is awful). He lives in a nearby town named Cove.

I'll probably pay him a visit this summer. Sit in a lawn chair with a beer and watch him hoe beets...

BTW, nice shot.. Like the subdued colors.
 
tedwhite said:
Doug: Noticed where you live. Would that by any chance be La Grande? Eastern Washington State Univ. is there, right. My significant other went there for a semester buy found it a bit cold. My very good friend John Scott abandoned Bisbee for La Grande last year (he's an organic vegetable farmer and the soil here is awful). He lives in a nearby town named Cove.

I'll probably pay him a visit this summer. Sit in a lawn chair with a beer and watch him hoe beets...

BTW, nice shot.. Like the subdued colors.
Glad you like the shot, Ted, thanks! La Grande is east of Pendleton on I-84 in NE Oregon, and I believe home of Eastern Oregon Univ. I went to La Grande a few years ago to order a custom office safe from Graffunder Safe Co.

Washington State Univ is north of that in Pullman WA, near the ID border, well-known ag-related specialties cause it to be called "The Udder University," as distinct from the Univ of Washington in Seattle (I live midway between). The other university near there is Eastern Washington Univ, further north in Cheney a bit west of Spokane. I'm sure any of these would be frigid compared to Bisbee AZ!

I hope your L+25 comes quickly to spare you a lot of anticipatory distress... I just experienced that in ordering a used Contax G1 + 21mm from KEH, but asked for "2nd-Day-Air" so I wouldn't go nuts waiting! Shot film today, and it seems to be working fine. Wish you the same...
 
Ooops. Mea culpa. Why would I think Eastern Washington State would be in Oregon?

Duh.

I've also been to Bend, a few decades ago when it was a small, quiet town with a river running through it, as I recall. Driving through from Montana to SF my old Porsche 356 ate a valve a mile outside of Bend. So I spent a week there while parts came from Portland. My sole camera then was a beat up Kodak Retina. I took so many pictures the local drug store ran out of Kodachrome 64.

Never in my life have I been in eastern Washington. Probably like eastern Oregon, only colder?

My friend, John Charley, the very good portrait photographer, just picked up a G1 and is going to loan it to me for a day or two - after he cools off. He mostly uses Hasselblads. I'm not sure why he bought the G1, except that I kept blabbing about RFF and perhaps he had a look. He showed it to me. Quite a nice, small, package.
 
tedwhite said:
... Bend. So I spent a week there while parts came from Portland. My sole camera then was a beat up Kodak Retina. I took so many pictures the local drug store ran out of Kodachrome 64.

Never in my life have I been in eastern Washington. Probably like eastern Oregon, only colder?

My friend, John Charley, the very good portrait photographer, just picked up a G1 and is going to loan it to me for a day or two - after he cools off. He mostly uses Hasselblads. I'm not sure why he bought the G1, except that I kept blabbing about RFF and perhaps he had a look. He showed it to me. Quite a nice, small, package.
Yes, seems to be a very nice package; solid, feels good in the hand. Squinty little viewfinder, but the external 21 viewfinder is great.

In Bend, shooting K64 for a week (but without transportation?), I bet you got some nice shots!

Eastern Oregon & Washington... yeah, similar in some respects, combination of "shrub-steppe" ecology & pine forests, badlands, bordered by volcanos. Eastern WA is generally at a lower elevation. Both, if you pick your places and times, offer some wide-open highways for daring those triple-digit speeds... 😀
 
2maneekameras said:
Would that put you closer to the town of Ellensburg? The other place in Eastern Washington with a state school of "higher learning". Have you taken any macro shots of the ticks that live on sagebrush?
Correct! But no, I have not had that pleasure! 🙂
 
I just missed a Jupiter 8 M39 on ebay that went for $24.90 (one bid) because I was out riding my motorcycle (1075 Hodaka) Darn..

Don't know anything about the lens. Big question, though, is this? Is it rangefinder coupled. Will it work on a Bessa R?

Ted
 
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