Looking for a film rangefinder

[Doktorkay]

Echoing some other comments:

-Nikon S2 or S3, and SC 5cm f/1.4
-Contax IIa (plus a CLA, they always need work), and 50mm Sonnar, or 35mm post war Biogon/Planar. You could start with one of the inexpensive Kiev copies and see how you like it.
-Later Canon LTM cameras
-Bessa R plus a lens
-Yasuhara T981 plus a lens

Watch what comes in at Kamarastore, the Finnish used shop. They often have cameras like these, much closer to home than buying from Japan.

I'll definitely take a look at it!

But maybe you shouldn't write off fixed lens RF's. There are tons of options, some of them have great lenses, and the benefit of a simpler construction and more minimal viewfinder. A lot of them have some form of metering and a mechanical shutter. What focal length do you like using? That will tell a lot about what camera you should wind up with anyway.

I'm not considering fixed lens cameras because I would like to have a single camera with multiple lenses, because I often use 28/35 or 40/50.
Otherwise I would have already considered the Canonet QL17 GIII

 

[lynnb]

Hi Francesco,

I'd consider the mount that gives you most choice in lenses and body options, and at different price/quality points. I think that would likely be LTM, where you'll have more options than you can poke a stick at - including the excellent Canon 7 and P; and a vast range of lenses from top of the range Leica to very inexpensive but often very good Russian lenses like the J8.

 

[jsrockit]

Plenty of good Canon P cameras on Japanese eBay sites. The Bessa R is another budget option. These are easy to use and comfortable cameras. Barnacks, as cool as they are, might not be what you’re looking for as far as easily usable.

 

[tbhv55]

Plenty of good Canon P cameras on Japanese eBay sites. The Bessa R is another budget option. These are easy to use and comfortable cameras. Barnacks, as cool as they are, might not be what you’re looking for as far as easily usable.

The 'P' is definitely a good call, jsr.

I agree that the Barnacks aren't the 'easiest' 🙂, however, I did think they would merit consideration, judged against the OP's requirements.

 

[David Hughes]

Thanks for the reply!
As for the Leica CL, my fear is that, in fact, the electronics will die in a short time or that they are cameras for those who already own a Leica Ms and need a "support", not for those who need a main camera.
What do you think about it?

It is not electronic but manual with a meter added, like all cameras mentioned, it will depend a lot on the previous owner(s) for reliability and condition. The limitation is that it has framelines for only 90 and 40mm lenses; although almost all* non-CL lenses will fit and the 50mm ones have framelines in the VF.

In your shoes, I would be looking for spending most money on the lens and as little as possible on the body - for reasons that escape me the bodies seem most important to many people.

Regards, David

* Very few in fact cannot be used according to Leica...

 

[jsrockit]

however, I did think they would merit consideration, judged against the OP's requirements.

For sure, but you either love or hate actually using them for photography...due to the separate VF/RF... but, of course we all love looking at them! 🙂

 

[zuiko85]

Just to start in the 35mm rangefinder experience, why not go for a Fed 2 with the 52mm f2.8 lens?
The thing is, your budget is in the middle ground. And, if you have to struggle to purchase just the body and one lens, how will you ever afford a second or third lens?
The Fed 2 will have a combined range/viewfinder for the 50mm lens and any other lens you get in LTM will fit either a screw mount or M mount body.
The price will equal what, maybe 10 rolls of 36exp B&W film. And, you can start taking photographs sooner, rather than later with a camera that probably won’t be a target for thieves.
Meanwhile you can still save up, if your interest in using this type of camera continues.

 

[jsrockit]

Just to start in the 35mm rangefinder experience, why not go for a Fed 2 with the 52mm f2.8 lens?
The thing is, your budget is in the middle ground. And, if you have to struggle to purchase just the body and one lens, how will you ever afford a second or third lens?
The Fed 2 will have a combined range/viewfinder for the 50mm lens and any other lens you get in LTM will fit either a screw mount or M mount body.
The price will equal what, maybe 10 rolls of 36exp B&W film. And, you can start taking photographs sooner, rather than later with a camera that probably won’t be a target for thieves.
Meanwhile you can still save up, if your interest in using this type of camera continues.

He has a Zorki and wants something better...

 

[Doktorkay]

Hi Francesco,

I'd consider the mount that gives you most choice in lenses and body options, and at different price/quality points. I think that would likely be LTM, where you'll have more options than you can poke a stick at - including the excellent Canon 7 and P; and a vast range of lenses from top of the range Leica to very inexpensive but often very good Russian lenses like the J8.

thanks for the advice, i think i will do so in the end 🙂

 

[Doktorkay]

Plenty of good Canon P cameras on Japanese eBay sites. The Bessa R is another budget option. These are easy to use and comfortable cameras. Barnacks, as cool as they are, might not be what you’re looking for as far as easily usable.

Thank you very much for the advice, I certainly agree!

 

[Doktorkay]

The 'P' is definitely a good call, jsr.

I agree that the Barnacks aren't the 'easiest' 🙂, however, I did think they would merit consideration, judged against the OP's requirements.

Thanks a lot!
Do you think the "P" is better than the "7"?

 

[Doktorkay]

It is not electronic but manual with a meter added, like all cameras mentioned, it will depend a lot on the previous owner(s) for reliability and condition. The limitation is that it has framelines for only 90 and 40mm lenses; although almost all* non-CL lenses will fit and the 50mm ones have framelines in the VF.

In your shoes, I would be looking for spending most money on the lens and as little as possible on the body - for reasons that escape me the bodies seem most important to many people.

Regards, David

* Very few in fact cannot be used according to Leica...

thanks for the answer, it sure seems reasonable .. I will probably look for a solution like "Canon P or 7" or a Bessa

 

[Doktorkay]

Just to start in the 35mm rangefinder experience, why not go for a Fed 2 with the 52mm f2.8 lens?
The thing is, your budget is in the middle ground. And, if you have to struggle to purchase just the body and one lens, how will you ever afford a second or third lens?
The Fed 2 will have a combined range/viewfinder for the 50mm lens and any other lens you get in LTM will fit either a screw mount or M mount body.
The price will equal what, maybe 10 rolls of 36exp B&W film. And, you can start taking photographs sooner, rather than later with a camera that probably won’t be a target for thieves.
Meanwhile you can still save up, if your interest in using this type of camera continues.

Actually, as jsrockit wrote, I already own a zorki and have been photographing for a while with both that and some point & shoot, but I wanted something better 🙂

 

[zuiko85]

Then save for an M mount body. Why? Because it is a universal body that will fit both M mount and LTM lenses. With a screw mount body you are stuck with screw mount lenses but with an M mount you can use, with a adapter, the lens off your Zorki and any other bargains you may find in screw mount. But it also opens up to you all the M mount lenses, in case you find just what you are looking for there for a good price.

 

[das]

Hexar RF is a really good choice for a beginner.

 

[tbhv55]

For sure, but you either love or hate actually using them for photography...due to the separate VF/RF... but, of course we all love looking at them! 🙂

You hit the nail on the head, there! 😀

 

[PaulDalex]

A vote for a clean CLE. The viewfinder is one of the best and it is very easy to focus. Even Minolta lens are excellent. And it is small and light too.
Incidentally, I live in Italy and buying in Japan with Fedex ha the enormous advantage that you pay customs at delivery.
I guess it is the same with DHL. I don't know (don't remember) about EMS

 

[David Hughes]

He has a Zorki and wants something better...

There's always the FED 2 which has a huge fan base on these forums. And they are dirt cheap even with a proper service etc included in the price. And there are still bargains to be had in Leica lenses like early Summictons; I saw one a week or so ago for under €500...

But that FED throws up the frame-line problem; so it looks like finding a bargain M Leica and using the Zorki lens with an adapter and then saving up for a couple more lenses. Say a 35 or 28 and an 85mm to go with the - I guess - Zorki's 50mm.

Regards, David

 

[Ko.Fe.]

I won't call anything with decades old electronics as reliable. CLE and Hexar are exotics with non-existing or next to not existing services. Nikon RF are another exotics, which means next to none service.
Canons are OK, but they are "improved" copies of original Leitz LTM cameras. 7/P aren't really compact. Maybe only if compared to large format cameras.
You could get Barnack camera right after service and couple of FSU/Canon LTM lenses within your budget or Barnack LTM camera with original LTM Leitz lens.
This is RF as close as you could get to original 🙂. And after service they will go for decade or more.
I had mine IIIc right after service earlier this year for under 300 USD. Shipping was from USA. Don't know if this particular person will ship it to Italy.

If you are only limited to Italian market... Serviced, tested Kiev cameras are OK, they are better RF cameras than Zorki.
Anything known to be working and tested with film from Canon, Nikon as RF are OK.
Also working in known condition Nicca, Leotax RF cameras are OK as well. I have some.
Those are made in Japan Leitz LTM copies. Closer camera to original Leitz the better. Usually it is cameras from fifties. Just like some Leitz LTM cameras.
But Canon P is fine, just not really compact.

For Bessa you might get T, R, R2. Just make sure to get half-case and always have it on camera while using, storing it gently. Those cameras have non durable exterior. You might get R2M, R3M or something like this if you spend some time for search and get lucky within your budget. Those aren't more durable on exterior cameras, but they have freshest electronics for been pricey. No gamble as with too old CLE and Hexars. Those I won't touch with ten feet pole due to their age and absence of service, parts.

 

[Doktorkay]

I thank everyone for the clear and very comprehensive messages, now I definitely have a better idea of what to do and a lot of possibilities that I am considering (I will probably go to a Canon 7 or a Bessa R ..).

After the choice (and the research) I will move on to the most interesting part, which will be the research of the lenses 🙂

Thanks again everyone 😎