Lost and Disconnected

[jimithing616]

She could have done as she was asked to do and put it in the $1 envelope that is sold a mere foot or two from where she was standing when she mailed the envelope... This IS what the OP asked her to do afterall....

But, Like I said, I see your point too... just saying, some of us expect different things of our friends... to each their own.

 

[ferider]

I suspected as much, but have never worked on Leica lenses. So getting a lens right, using Chinese "replacements" would just be blind luck. Does Leica use shims in the mount, or do they shim the lenses internally (like Nikon RF)?

Many guys are willing to "adjust" their new M9! 😱

No shims in Leica lenses underneath the flange. Also, obviously, wide lenses are more sensitive to flange thickness variations than longer ones. And personally, I would not trust a machine shop in Brooklyn more than a machine shop in Hong Kong that comes with good references. Regarding the "blind luck", any of us who buy used lenses trust the same luck. Look at the cam of a 50's Summicron and tell me what you see: it was ground to adjust to a given film camera. Who knows who did that 50 years ago ? If it was done by Leica it was not adjusted to a digital Leica for sure.

It's a cheap experiment: get the Chinese adapter, put it on, see if the camera still focuses to infinity. All this takes is a screw driver. If the camera was working properly before, it's an easy proof that the flange thickness is correct. If it's off, you are out 20 bucks.

The best accuracy you get of course when you send all lenses and cameras together to Leica or a trusted technician, wait 6 months and have them calibrated. I personally think that's a bit too much for a (mostly) hand-held camera anyways. YMMV.

Roland.

 

[jimithing616]

I asked my friend about how she mailed them. She said she put two thin pieces of styrofoam in the envelop I gave her and mailed them first class. She stressed first class as if that was necessarily the best class. I reminded her that I wanted her to put them in one of those padded envelops. I said that in the envelop I gave her, the flanges may tear open the sides and they'll fall out. She seemed unaffected by my concerns.


-Russell

He clearly did in fact state that 😉

It was a lot to read though, so no worries. Oh, well, we will just have to agree to disagree! Not worth arguing over personal opinions... get us nowhere fast

 

[tunalegs]

I wouldn't have even put them in a padded envelope, I can just imagine somebody dropping then stepping on it.

I would say though that if the OP was asking his friend to do this favor he should have had the flanges properly packed himself. If they were that important, they should have been treated as though they were that important. It's a shame though, I do agree.

 

[mfogiel]

I think you have already had some technical advice about how to fix the lenses.
As to the emotional side of it, I think you should relax a bit. The nice thing about being passionate about photography, is that it hopefully brings out something beautiful out of you. Don't let a simple "random" adverse outcome in life detract you from this, and the same applies to your relationship with this friend. You have to be able to discern between a purposeful neglect or wrongdoing, or a somewhat lighthearted decision taken in good faith. After all this friend is a woman, and not a photographer, so her priority world is very different from yours. Finally, she is not even Italian, so you can't blame her lack of reliability on the latin character... Take it easy, and smile 😀 Then, take some photographs...

 

[jtm6]

Im with the OP, dump the friend. Some of you must have some pretty low expectations of your FRIENDS (which can, in SOME cases, be more important than family)...

I feel bad for whoever accepts less from their own friends, because that is not truly a friend...

When I was 25, I "dumped" a very good friend over a material item worth about $400. Maybe he wasn't the best friend and I was technically right, but it wasn't worth losing a friend over it. That feeling has been growing stronger ever since that conversation ended, years ago.

In the case of the OP, the friend offered to help him by taking them to the US, then pack and mail them for him. Maybe it is ultimately her fault they are lost but she's only guilty of screwing up along the way due to ignorance/naivety.

 

[russelljtdyer]

Off Topic and On Their Way

Off Topic and On Their Way

Thanks for all of the responses. Thanks especially for the sympathetic ones and the suggestions about how to resolve the problem. I shouldn't have mentioned my reaction to my friend's part in this. That was off-topic, which lead to the thread going further off topic. I should have stuck to the facts: I lost two Leica lens flanges in the mail and I need new ones. But, I was upset. Now I feel I should respond to some of the observations.

As for the friend, I'm a chump and I'm very forgiving. She has not been on-line to read my message yet. So I've had time to let go of my anger. When she does come on-line and read the message, she'll probably say that she's sorry and I'll say, "That's alright. Don't worry about it. It was my fault." She won't offer to pay for them: she can't afford to do that.

From the little I told y'all, I can understand why many of you feel that I was overreacting by wanting to ditch a friend for making a mistake. There's much more to the story than I've said, or rather more to the relationship with her. I've done so much for her over the five years I've known her (e.g., paying regularly for things for her, giving her a place to stay a few times when she lost her apartment, and many other things) and I've asked and received almost nothing in return--other than her friendship. Which is fine. It's a friendship, not a business relationship--and she's not a girlfriend; it's not a sexual relationship. Still, after always being there for her, when she let me down on this small thing that was so important to me, it upset me. Fortunately, she has been off-line for a few days, giving me time to calm down before I talk to her.

Some people criticized me for not packing the flanges properly before giving them to her. I didn't give them to her in a better envelop and prepackaged because the idea of her taking them happened the evening before her morning flight, and she wanted it to be as small as possible to put in her already stuffed bag. Some others criticized me for assuming she knew the value of them. She was well aware of the value of the flanges: I've told her about the cost of the lenses when I bought each. I told her about the flanges and the cost of buying them at Leica. Nevertheless, I should have just sent them by FedEx.

I've given up on fighting this problem. I wrapped the lenses in bubble wrap this afternoon, stuffed them into a box with plenty of cushioning, sealed it well, and took it to the post office a few minutes ago and sent it to Solms, Germany. I've heard others say that in addition to putting the 6-bit coded flanges on the lenses, they'll calibrate, clean, and lubricate the lenses. They could use that kind of special treatment after the years of use they've had. So, they're now on their way to their birthplace.

Thanks again for everyone's concerns, sympathy, and other responses. I appreciate them all.

-Russell

 

[Godfrey]

That's a good resolution to the tale, Russell. I'm glad for you. You'll have many great moments with the lenses in the future, and you'll share those results with us and with your friend. There's nothing better that could come of all this. 🙂

G

 

[daveleo]

That's a good resolution to the tale, Russell. I'm glad for you. You'll have many great moments with the lenses in the future, and you'll share those results with us and with your friend. There's nothing better that could come of all this. 🙂

G

+1 for me too

 

[noisycheese]

consider how ridiculous this statement sounds to an objective person not immersed in leica-lore: "Losing the mounting rings for my Leica lenses [...] ends the friendship."

sorry, you could have easily avoided all of this mess. if you want something done right...

...do it yourself - or if a piece of Leica M gear is involved, send it to Sherry Krauter. 😉

I had a friend who one night came to my apartment and snorted cocaine in front of me twice, although I told him not to do it. I've never spoken to him again.

I will agree with you 100% on that point.
True friends do not bring unlawful drugs into your home and use them - twice - when plainly told not to do so.

Life is too short for such nonsense; your life will be much better off without this type of "friend" in it.

As for the situation with your female friend and the lens mount rings - sounds like either she or the USPS dropped the ball. Fixing this situation won't be cheap and will be inconvenient, but it is doubtful if you will ever know with 100% certainty who messed this up.

I would be inclined to call it one of life's tough little lessons and let it go at that...

 

[Jockos]

I've given up on fighting this problem. I wrapped the lenses in bubble wrap this afternoon, stuffed them into a box with plenty of cushioning, sealed it well, and took it to the post office a few minutes ago and sent it to Solms, Germany. I've heard others say that in addition to putting the 6-bit coded flanges on the lenses, they'll calibrate, clean, and lubricate the lenses.

I had a repair done in Solms this summer; the servicedesk asked me to send my digital camera along with the lens so that the could calibrate the lens to the camera.
I don't have a digital Leica, and it sounded like a stupid idea to calibrate the lens to the camera (when the camera is more likely to go out of adjustment and is MUCH easier to correct), so I asked if the could calibrate it against my other lens.
Leica agreed to this, so my 50 lux asph and my 90 elmarit-m went to Solms.

5-6 weeks later the lenses arrived back in Sweden. Both had been CLAd, since the lux was still under warranty. However when checking infinity on both my cameras, the lenses were adjusted differently. I checked the test certificates, and found that the lenses were handled by two different techs.
I made a test on film, talked to Leica and finally sent both lenses back. This took an additional three weeks, but now both lenses focus perfectly against one another and my M3 is calibrated to them.

Be sure to check carefully when getting the lenses back, even Leica is not perfect.

 

[russelljtdyer]

Be sure to check carefully when getting the lenses back, even Leica is not perfect.

Ah, good advice. I will check them. They didn't ask me to send the camera, though. I don't want to calibrate the lenses to the camera since I want to replace one day my M8.2 with an M9.

They said things are slow this month, so they said it should take only two weeks from the time they receive them to send them back to me. I hope that's correct. The sooner this is totally resolved, the better I'll feel.

-Russell

 

[_goodtimez]

This will have a happy end I'm sure.
I already learned the lesson: small expensive stuff ships in large boxes, always.
One time I shipped a Leica M3 body inside a box which could contain 4 pairs of boots easily. Doing so makes it less attractive to potential stealers.

 

[russelljtdyer]

Estimated Cost

Estimated Cost

My two lenses arrived in Solms, Germany on Friday. I received just now an estimate for the parts and work. The 6-bit coded flanges will cost €239--that's about what they told me to expect. But the estimate includes also the cost for labor to attach them and to adjust the lens. They told me before I sent the lenses that the €239 would include the labor. Now they're saying that labor will be €144.30 extra. With the additional cost of tax and shipping it back to me, the total will be €959.85 to recover from this problem.

I wrote them back saying that I was told the cost of the flanges would include the labor charges. I told them I think that €239 for a flange seems excessive if it didn't include labor to put it on. I asked them if the quote was a mistake. It probably wasn't, but I'm hoping.

It seems my misery on this topic is renewed.

-Russell

 

[ChrisPlatt]

Sorry for your misfortune. At USPS mail processing is a highly automated process. Mailing even small parts in an envelope with letter mail is very risky.
The AFCS/AFCS200 machine at the USPS processing center will mangle them or squeeze them from the envelope, as it is designed only for paper mail.
Unfortunately this happens all the time. I guess most people don't realize that 99% of letter mail is processed by machine. If special handling is required
items must be placed in a suitable mailer, marked NONMACHINEABLE and brought to the post office counter where an additional fee applies.

Chris
USPS employee

 

[Landshark]

Thanks for the tip, currently only priority is available from USPS web site. I get a lot of this kind of packages, they are easy to spot there is a big "F" on them.

You're incorrect about 1st class not being available from the USPS site. They don't offer an online price though.
I just calculated a price for a 6oz rigid, thick rectangular envelope to a zip in Ca. The site gives $2.58 for postage alone. $600.00 insurance is $8.55and a return receipt is $2.55 for a total of $13.68.

BTW "F" is first class, "P" is priority mail.

 

[russelljtdyer]

The Results are In

The Results are In

I received today my lenses back from Leica. The lenses have now the much ballyhooed 6-bit coding (see photo below) that lured me into this personal catastrophe--which is what prompted me to start this thread. I am quite pleased with the work they did. I'm less pleased with the hit on my credit card. The final cost was €959.85 ($1,271.53), per the estimate. Had it been half that cost, I would be much happier. I hope after the credit card is paid and I've forgotten the sting of it, I will focus on the pleasure I get from the results of the lenses and not the cost of all of this.

Before I sent the lenses to Leica in Solms, there were many specs of something inside the 50mm lens. It didn't seem to cause a problem, but there was something in there that glittered. The 90mm lens had some dust or mildew in it--not much, but a little bit. They took the lenses apart and cleaned them. Below is a pair of photos showing how clean they look now. I wish I had taken photos of them before I sent them to Leica so I could show the difference.

As part of the package of adding the lens flanges, they recalibrated the lenses. To try that out, I took photos of a poinsettia plant in my home today to see how well I could focus them. Below is a photo taken with the Leica Summicron-M 50mm. It looks pretty sharp to me. Maybe someone with more experience with this lens and camera could do better--especially someone who doesn't use eye-glasses. I focused on the one large leaf with a reddish hint to it.

The 6-bit coding added not only the name of the model of the lens attached to the camera, but its able to judge the aperture correctly. Before they serviced the lenses, the camera seemed to guess poorly as to the aperture setting. They're manual lenses with no electronic information transmitted to the camera. Somehow by knowing the specific lens and measuring the width of the light coming into the camera--I guess, but don't know--it determines the aperture setting. So instead of recording apertures of f/4.8, f/5.7, f/9.5 and other odd increments, I'm getting now true apertures of f/4, f/5.6, and f/8.

Below is a photo I took with the Leica Elmarit-M 90mm lens. Again, I focused on the one large, reddish leaf. It looks very good to me.

I feel good about my lenses now. I bought them at very low prices. Adding another €480 to the cash I paid for each was not preferred, but the total cost is still much less than I should have paid for each lens in their current condition. So, I guess it's fine. Thanks everyone for your comments, advice, and support. I appreciate it.

-Russell

 

[leicapixie]

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=135385

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=135385

Seeing those repair prices..Glad the work looks good.
I think i would NOT have gone that route.
When i lost 2 lenses in an attack/theft on my car,
i saw the then new prices on a 35mm and a 90mm.
I added lenses to my Nikon-F. It was for me the better decision.
I had the Tele Elmar 135mm. I only replaced the 35mm a few years ago..
A friend offered a damaged 35mmRF at a reasonable price.
Sorry but Leica's prices are simply too high for me!
Most important, Enjoy.