MartinL
MartinL
Been wondering about this question for, maybe. . . a decade. Used to be that the decision was made at the point of film purchase. Pop in Tri-X, and all done. Irrevocable. Maybe take along a second camera with color (drove me crazy---lost how many shots? because I'm standing there compounding variables of cameras, lenses, and film.)
A big problem with digital is that to my eye any single-shot comparison of color and B&W will always favor the color. That is, an A-B comparison makes B&W seem like a "loss" of detail and experience.
As an experiment, I decided to commit myself to posting a "routine" gallery of M8 snapshots in B&W only, and not make individual decisions about what photo looked better in one or the other.
These would be the most recent on Pbase. Maybe I'll have this figured out in another 10 years.
A big problem with digital is that to my eye any single-shot comparison of color and B&W will always favor the color. That is, an A-B comparison makes B&W seem like a "loss" of detail and experience.
As an experiment, I decided to commit myself to posting a "routine" gallery of M8 snapshots in B&W only, and not make individual decisions about what photo looked better in one or the other.
These would be the most recent on Pbase. Maybe I'll have this figured out in another 10 years.
Dave Wilkinson
Veteran
We live in a coloured world, and yes - the right subject well executed in mono can be a thing of beauty, but the instances of this are far, far more infrequent than a lot here will admit to - hence the large amount of dull, lifeless grey and white images foisted upon us on internet forums in the guise of 'art'.Been wondering about this question for, maybe. . . a decade. Used to be that the decision was made at the point of film purchase. Pop in Tri-X, and all done. Irrevocable. Maybe take along a second camera with color (drove me crazy---lost how many shots? because I'm standing there compounding variables of cameras, lenses, and film.)
A big problem with digital is that to my eye any single-shot comparison of color and B&W will always favor the color. That is, an A-B comparison makes B&W seem like a "loss" of detail and experience.
As an experiment, I decided to commit myself to posting a "routine" gallery of M8 snapshots in B&W only, and not make individual decisions about what photo looked better in one or the other.
These would be the most recent on Pbase. Maybe I'll have this figured out in another 10 years.
Dave.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
You're living in the past.
You used to see in colour, think in colour. You've changed. This doesn't mean that mono is one iota less valid. Just that it's not the way you see any more.
I've recently been working on this theme for an AP column: not submitted, not even finished. But the idea is there: why do so many of us still want to take the same pictures as our (sometimes much) younger selves?
Cheers,
R.
You used to see in colour, think in colour. You've changed. This doesn't mean that mono is one iota less valid. Just that it's not the way you see any more.
I've recently been working on this theme for an AP column: not submitted, not even finished. But the idea is there: why do so many of us still want to take the same pictures as our (sometimes much) younger selves?
Cheers,
R.
f16sunshine
Moderator
The old idea Zone System of "pre visualizing" the scene seems to have yet to evolve in the digital era. I don't do it as often as I did when shooting only film and having only one shot per frame of having the exposure or emulsion I want. Sometimes I'll take a specific snap with B+W only in mind. Place my exposure for a certain detail and feel it through. More often It's color now though and counting on 1 stop of latitude in the Raw converter as my final decision of what exposure I want. More time is spent deciding what sort of PP technique will be used to emulate what color film from the past. Dave put's very well. We live in a color world. Why not enjoy it?
> take the same pictures as our (sometimes much) younger selves?
Easy. Years, and Years of practice makes perfect. Not limited to photography. You get good at something with the years, it's hard to switch to something else. Especially when what you know gets the job done.
Easy. Years, and Years of practice makes perfect. Not limited to photography. You get good at something with the years, it's hard to switch to something else. Especially when what you know gets the job done.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Dear Brian,
Yes, but are you still chasing teenage girls, the same way you did when you were 19?
Our lives change...
Cheers,
R.
migtex
Don't eXchange Freedom!
No we don't Roger.. now is more the other way around... the girls I mean.
Nevertheless we do change of course.. that doesn't mean we are getting better (Brian is other story, he is always great).
It looks to me to be more about commitent and sweat than anything else...
the old "Keep on trying"!
proenca
Proenca
Hope that is a rethorical question Roger
But to honest to Martin, for me is the opposite.
When I started in photography was mainly colour with the very random b/w picture.
Today, if I go on Holidays for example ( nothing commercial or paid ) , I would say that 60 to 70% of my photos are b/w and that is because I do make an effort to "salvage" some and let them stay in colour.
But the funny thing is , I still dont get the hang of b/w film - still new to it though.
Velvia is the thing that goes mostly in my MP
Roger Hicks
Veteran
You mean they're chasing you? At 48? Lucky bugger! (Unless you're married...)
Cheers,
R.
Dave Wilkinson
Veteran
I had a dream......:angel:
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Hope that is a rethorical question Roger
Very!
This is precisely because I have a 19 year old sort-of-adopted 'daughter'. She is actually the daughter of a very old friend, and was born on my 40th birthday. We are impossibly close: we are both reasonably convinced we'd be lovers if I were 40 years younger. I have quite a good take on this one -- exactly because I'm not 40 years younger. She and I can discuss anything, including the reasons we are not lovers (I'm happily married, and even if I weren't, I'm her father's age).
Cheers,
R.
MartinL
MartinL
In reference to my "experiment," I'm inclined to think that "dull, lifeless" images are fairly evenly distributed between color and BW renderings (even if the color are sparkling, saturated, and backlit.) Likewise, the choice of color or BW is something I intend to take more seriously--rather than always having color as the default.
Foisting pretensions of artfulness onto viewers is another matter altogether. I agree that well-focused, color, appropriate dynamic range, etc. ought to be the default for photos unless there's some compelling artistic (journalistic, documentary, etc.) reason for departing. Often there is not. And when there isn't such a reason, the color/BW issue is moot.
Lastly, (for now
) I'm interested in how the eye normalizes BW, and how in a less-apparent way, more powerfully normalizes color images. Seeing an entire roll or gallery in BW is very different than those A-B comparisons I referred to in my OP. At least that's my most recent experience.
mfogiel
Veteran
To me the question is simple. When I take the photo at my aunt's birthday, I take a digital colour snap, and this foots the bill to what everybody ecpects it to look like: a "standard", in focus approximation of our normal vision, i.e. what 99% of the people think a photograph should be about.
BUT
When I take the camera to take photographs for my own pleasure of discovery and expression, I want it to look the way I SEE IT, not the way everybody is expecting to see it.
This is not related to age, here are a couple of examples, about 35 years apart.
1975
2010
BUT
When I take the camera to take photographs for my own pleasure of discovery and expression, I want it to look the way I SEE IT, not the way everybody is expecting to see it.
This is not related to age, here are a couple of examples, about 35 years apart.
1975
2010
In about 1 year and 3 months I will be chasing at least one Teenage Girl!
When I was 19, I was chasing a 25 year old. And when I was 21, I was chasing a 34 year old.
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VinceC
Veteran
For the color vs. black and white question, you could try setting the camera to black and white, then proceeding. I tend to shoot differently with black and white film or the digital set to black and white. I'm looking for changes in light and texture and tone, while trying to miminize the impact of colors. With color, the colors themselves are always a top priority of compostion. Worth a try sometimes.
migtex
Don't eXchange Freedom!
I do not understand why either.. fortunately (or not..) I'm married too...
Keep up that complicity you have, it's priceless.
Jack Conrad
Well-known
I've been revisiting the b/w because it kills chromatic digital noise which I feel is ugly.
Teashop
Member
mfogiel: I love your second picture (of the Labrador)- that's how I feel every day at work..! Great shot!
For me, some images work better as color, some better as B&W, so I use both. The great thing about raw files is that I get to choose later instead of when I load the film in the camera.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Dear Brian,
Yes, but you'll be trying to persuade her to do different things from your attempts at persuasion when you were in your teens.
Probably, in fact, the exact opposite of what you wanted then.
Cheers,
R.