Paul T.
Veteran
The real question is - is this your first Leica?
If you've owned, say, a chrome M6 or a chrome M4 and feel they're lacking exactly what you need, go for the a-la-carte. But if it's your first M camera, and you feel you want to start at the top, I think that might be a mistake. Start off with a chrome M6.. you could get a CLA and improved VF but that's not crucial. And spend the balance on a lens, to support Leica. Your money will go on adding optical quality and functionality, rather than fripperies or overpriced leather.
When you take the camera out, you won't be worried about denting it... and your photos will definitely be better.
If you've owned, say, a chrome M6 or a chrome M4 and feel they're lacking exactly what you need, go for the a-la-carte. But if it's your first M camera, and you feel you want to start at the top, I think that might be a mistake. Start off with a chrome M6.. you could get a CLA and improved VF but that's not crucial. And spend the balance on a lens, to support Leica. Your money will go on adding optical quality and functionality, rather than fripperies or overpriced leather.
When you take the camera out, you won't be worried about denting it... and your photos will definitely be better.
Dittos to the previous three posts.
The camera doesn't matter, no one can tell by looking at the photograph whether it was a 50 year old M3 or a brand new ala carte MP.
The camera doesn't matter, no one can tell by looking at the photograph whether it was a 50 year old M3 or a brand new ala carte MP.
ERV
Well-known
Paul T. said:
I agree with Paul and others. Consider another M as well if this is your first Leica.
I bought my M bodies (M5, M6) with idea of using them on daily basis, and since none of them have been new, I don't worry about the finish or the bag I put them in every time I step out the door. They're Leicas after all. A chrome M6 is a beautiful camera.
Last week I emailed a gentlemen who had an early Wetzler M6 for sale on ebay with a recent CLA from Sherry at Golden Touch. It was in perfect shape, reasonably priced, and ready for another 20 years of service. No one bid on it, which was too bad because it was a great camera. So, you have options...in fact, here's your MP on ebay-
item number: 250167375486
Last edited:
BigSteveG
Well-known
This thread seems to have struck a nerve w/ members.
Bill Blackwell
Leica M Shooter
shadowfox said:... it still doesn't change the point in my post one bit.
shadowfox is right. Buy an M6 instead. You'll have money left over for a lens or two (or three) and some cash left in the bank.
Tuolumne
Veteran
It has to be difficult when customers believe the best product you ever made ceased to be produced 50 years ago, but there are plenty still available on the used market. In this week's New Yorker article on Leica the CEO of Leica is quoted as saying that for every $1 in sales that Leica has the Leica market does another $4. That's used products changing hands. Mostly older, out of manufacture products.
The New Yorker issue, the Style issue for the year, was very interesting because it contained James Surowicki's always insightful economic column on how fashion knock offs help drive the demand for new fashions. Otherwise, the rich would just hang onto their threads longer. It made me realize that there is no dynamic that makes users want to buy the next product cycle in the Leica market. On the contrary, many feel that each successive cycle just gets farther from the best. This is why the digital market is so wonderful for those manufacturers that can play in it. There is an inbred obsolescence built-in to every product cycle. The next is always better, sometimes much better. You may decry it as useless consumerism, but it is what has driven the evolution of the digital camera so far and so quickly that film is now a niche product.
/T
The New Yorker issue, the Style issue for the year, was very interesting because it contained James Surowicki's always insightful economic column on how fashion knock offs help drive the demand for new fashions. Otherwise, the rich would just hang onto their threads longer. It made me realize that there is no dynamic that makes users want to buy the next product cycle in the Leica market. On the contrary, many feel that each successive cycle just gets farther from the best. This is why the digital market is so wonderful for those manufacturers that can play in it. There is an inbred obsolescence built-in to every product cycle. The next is always better, sometimes much better. You may decry it as useless consumerism, but it is what has driven the evolution of the digital camera so far and so quickly that film is now a niche product.
/T
Last edited:
Uncle Bill
Well-known
You only live once, if you got the cash, I would go for the a la carte while you can, once kids come along you will have other priorities.
V
varjag
Guest
If I had free cash, I'd get an a la carte MP 0.85. And with personal engraving, not from vanity but just not to worry in the back of my mind about resale value from the start.
But then as said above, if it's your first Leica experience, try with a user body initially. Once you make up your mind, should be easy to sell at no loss and contribute money to a la carte.
But then as said above, if it's your first Leica experience, try with a user body initially. Once you make up your mind, should be easy to sell at no loss and contribute money to a la carte.
Rob-F
Likes Leicas
I would get an MP or an M6. If an M6, I would have the finder upgraded to the MP style. This is, in fact, what I have actually done. I have these two, along with another M6 with .58 finder, and my M2. So I am recommending what I have actually done, and am Happy with. Spend the extra money on several really good lenses. My favorites are the 24mm ASPH, 35mm ASPH Summilux, the 28mm ASPH, and the 75mm SUmmilux. I have others but those are favorites.
A workhorse M6 and enough lenses to give some versatility will mean more in the long run than an a la carte with meaningless cosmetic features.
A workhorse M6 and enough lenses to give some versatility will mean more in the long run than an a la carte with meaningless cosmetic features.
peter_n
Veteran
Not all customers believe this, but certainly some do. They are entitled to their opinion but it doesn't hold for all.Tuolumne said:
Doctor Zero
Established
thank you, all
thank you, all
First off, thank you to all those who responded! As I expected, many interesting ideas and things to think about. I will not respond to everyone individually, but here is a general answer.
1. Yes the camera would be used, all the protective tape would come off, bring on the scratches! I have never molly-cuddled a camera.
2. I don't mind the people who did tell me I am nuts. If I was afraid of the answer, I wouldn't have asked the question.
3. I am amused, though, because there was another thread not too long ago stating that the MP is about the best camera there is. Unreserved praise. This thread is not like that. Merely an observation on my part, not judging anything or anyone.
4. Being nostalgic/emotional about it is probably lunacy, as some suggested. Which would argue for me to wait to buy it in the US.
5. My main hesitancy is because it *is* a lot of money! And I blame my dad for this attitude. He taught me to not spend much money without making sure it truly is worth it. He is also the one who sold his uncle's M3 and lenses when a CLA would have done, long before I ever realised quite what a beautiful camera it was :bang: .
6. Strangely - my partner is very supportive of me getting the camera. Maybe because she supports the habit, or to get me to shut up about it ! And lest I forget: thanks for the wedding congratulations. I should have said I am marrying my girlfried, who is American. I'm not marrying an American specifically
7. The suggestion that since this is my first M I ought to get another M first is very, very intriguing. When I got into this game, I had indeed thought about an M6. That's why I got my R2, to make sure I like rangefinders. But now, reading so much about the MP... The idea of an M4(-P) is interesting as well. And I have tried to train myself in the sunny 11 (s*dding UK weather...). Thanks for that suggestion.
8. Buying an M6/4 also allows me to buy a Leica 21 mm new - I like the VC, but since using my dad's Biogon 21 on his Contax G2 - wow! That's something else.
9. Lastly, the heir loom approach had occurred to me. It's a great camera in my lifetime, and a nice paperweight for future generations.
I'll let you know how I end up...
Doctor Zero
thank you, all
First off, thank you to all those who responded! As I expected, many interesting ideas and things to think about. I will not respond to everyone individually, but here is a general answer.
1. Yes the camera would be used, all the protective tape would come off, bring on the scratches! I have never molly-cuddled a camera.
2. I don't mind the people who did tell me I am nuts. If I was afraid of the answer, I wouldn't have asked the question.
3. I am amused, though, because there was another thread not too long ago stating that the MP is about the best camera there is. Unreserved praise. This thread is not like that. Merely an observation on my part, not judging anything or anyone.
4. Being nostalgic/emotional about it is probably lunacy, as some suggested. Which would argue for me to wait to buy it in the US.
5. My main hesitancy is because it *is* a lot of money! And I blame my dad for this attitude. He taught me to not spend much money without making sure it truly is worth it. He is also the one who sold his uncle's M3 and lenses when a CLA would have done, long before I ever realised quite what a beautiful camera it was :bang: .
6. Strangely - my partner is very supportive of me getting the camera. Maybe because she supports the habit, or to get me to shut up about it
! And lest I forget: thanks for the wedding congratulations. I should have said I am marrying my girlfried, who is American. I'm not marrying an American specifically 7. The suggestion that since this is my first M I ought to get another M first is very, very intriguing. When I got into this game, I had indeed thought about an M6. That's why I got my R2, to make sure I like rangefinders. But now, reading so much about the MP... The idea of an M4(-P) is interesting as well. And I have tried to train myself in the sunny 11 (s*dding UK weather...). Thanks for that suggestion.
8. Buying an M6/4 also allows me to buy a Leica 21 mm new - I like the VC, but since using my dad's Biogon 21 on his Contax G2 - wow! That's something else.
9. Lastly, the heir loom approach had occurred to me. It's a great camera in my lifetime, and a nice paperweight for future generations.
I'll let you know how I end up...
Doctor Zero
thomasw_
Well-known
Do as you wish, it is your money.
If I had 6K to throw at a kit, I'd call Popflash.
MP .58 $3000
ZM 50/2 $700
ZM 35/2 $900
ZM 25/2.8 $900
Megaperls 1.35x magnifier $200
**with $300 left over for film and accessories.
If I had 6K to throw at a kit, I'd call Popflash.
MP .58 $3000
ZM 50/2 $700
ZM 35/2 $900
ZM 25/2.8 $900
Megaperls 1.35x magnifier $200
**with $300 left over for film and accessories.
cmogi10
Bodhisattva
Get the MP, it will make you so happy and you never have to wonder.
rxmd
May contain traces of nut
Hi,
From an investment point of view, future generations are unlikely to have much gain from having a nice camera left to them, unless it's a rare camera in pristine shape. You say yourself that you like to use a camera and don't mind scratches; that, in my opinion, practically excludes the investment argument. If you are ready to spend extra money on a Leica because you think future generations might use the money, put the money in a savings account, an education fund or something similar, they'll have much more use for that.
From an emotional point of view, whether future generations appreciate a camera depends much on their attitude to photography, and on their view on how this particular camera was an important item in your life. That's highly dependent on their individual character as well. If they aren't even born yet, that will be very difficult to assess.
And by the way, congratulations on getting married My wife gave me her FED-5B as a wedding gift, which was her father's before her. No monetary value at all, but the emotional value is certainly there. If I have to sell all of my photographic gear, the FED will be the last thing I hold on to.
Philipp
In that case, I wouldn't get a new camera in the first place. The MP is an M6 with a slightly better finder. Your MP looks pretty conventional. Get a chrome M6, have someone do a CLA, upgrade the finder and put an old-style wind lever on it. If you insist on custom leathering, buy some from CameraLeather and have the CLA man install it. After that, you've for all practical purposes got exactly the same camera as in your à-la-carte example configuration, for a fraction of the money. If you don't molly-cuddle cameras, the new MP will represent no added user value.Doctor Zero said:
Well, show me any opinion and I'll show you a thread somewhere on the Internet that supports it.Doctor Zero said:
Your dad is a wise man.Doctor Zero said:
If you were impressed by the Biogon on the G2, get a Biogon 21/2.8 for whatever camera you'll buy. $887 at Popflash, vs. $3197 for a Leica 21/2.8, and there is no agreement on whether the Leica lens is better at all (and it probably isn't 3.6 times better then). Not worth paying an extra $2300 in my book - I guess your dad would agreeDoctor Zero said:
There's two things to heirlooms, an emotional and a monetary value.Doctor Zero said:
From an investment point of view, future generations are unlikely to have much gain from having a nice camera left to them, unless it's a rare camera in pristine shape. You say yourself that you like to use a camera and don't mind scratches; that, in my opinion, practically excludes the investment argument. If you are ready to spend extra money on a Leica because you think future generations might use the money, put the money in a savings account, an education fund or something similar, they'll have much more use for that.
From an emotional point of view, whether future generations appreciate a camera depends much on their attitude to photography, and on their view on how this particular camera was an important item in your life. That's highly dependent on their individual character as well. If they aren't even born yet, that will be very difficult to assess.
And by the way, congratulations on getting married
My wife gave me her FED-5B as a wedding gift, which was her father's before her. No monetary value at all, but the emotional value is certainly there. If I have to sell all of my photographic gear, the FED will be the last thing I hold on to.Philipp
Last edited:
cmogi10
Bodhisattva
Another vote for the Biogon, it's a fantastic lens.
Eelco Amsterdam
Established
You only live once !!!
You only live once !!!
You only live once !!!
I buy this M7 a-la-carte in August 2006. And I love it !
More then 300 films I phrough through this camera.
(36 exposure = 38/39 in a M camera)
I am a M user for more than 10 years before I buy this one.
A M6, M6 TTL made the same pictures I like the M7 AUTO mode !
It's a little faster good for picturing playing children etc.
Buy it in America or Europe :angel:
Good luck,
Eelco
You only live once !!!
You only live once !!!
I buy this M7 a-la-carte in August 2006. And I love it !
More then 300 films I phrough through this camera.
(36 exposure = 38/39 in a M camera)
I am a M user for more than 10 years before I buy this one.
A M6, M6 TTL made the same pictures
I like the M7 AUTO mode !It's a little faster good for picturing playing children etc.
Buy it in America or Europe :angel:
Good luck,
Eelco
MCTuomey
Veteran
I read through this longish thread with more than the usual curiosity because I've never been faced with such a decision and probably never will. I'm living vicariously and thank the OP and everyone else for the pleasure, btw.
My only comment is that, if you have to think much about it, Doctor Zero, then maybe you shouldn't do it. Decisive confidence seems to be missing, and that's not auspicious for such a luxurious outlay. Of course, the exact opposite might be true - luxury by its nature should need no other justification.
My only comment is that, if you have to think much about it, Doctor Zero, then maybe you shouldn't do it. Decisive confidence seems to be missing, and that's not auspicious for such a luxurious outlay. Of course, the exact opposite might be true - luxury by its nature should need no other justification.
edodo
Well-known
That MP looks just like an M4 with metal levers! My advice get the M4 done for a lot less and buy a summilux to compensate... This combo will last all your life time (but MP might need the electronics done at some point in the time)
spysmart
Established
edodo said:
You may have a good point: The MP and M7 and M8 all are RoHS compliant, which means they use lead free solder on their PCBs. Just google Tin whisker growth - lead free soldered components are much more at risk.
For long term reliability traditional tin-lead solder is the choice of those who can choose ( military, space, communications infrastructure etc. )
Having the best fast lenses is my priority over the choice of body.