M Edition 60: the terrorists have not won

Great article. Sums up my feeling towards the M60 (and Leica modern in general) very nicely.

It's not that I can't afford a digital M, and not that I don't enjoy the RF experience. It's Leica's insistence of not including perfectly useful functions or not delivering them well that keeps me away. Yes, I can still shoot a M9 or M240 with good results, but when I'm expected to pay upwards of $6,000 absolutely nothing on a camera should be hit-and-miss.

I sincerely hope Leica doesn't go further along the path of the M60, and build cameras that are on par with the best and latest from competing brands.
 
Thanks for the link Dante. Very interesting little article and a good viewpoint on the Edition 60. It will be fun to track this and see if you are right.

Leica seems to be doing a relatively good job of walking the tightrope between the M design credo they created and the rest of the digital world.

I do enjoy using my M9 and feel it is a good camera for me at this point in time. Unfortunately I don't generally feel the same way about their film cameras. With the exception of the M3, kept strictly for nostalgia, I unapologetically (that sounds as if it should be a word) moved to the ZI for my film work quite awhile ago. Its a shame Zeiss discontinued production but the rangefinder market truly is a small place, particularly when it is combined with the shrinking film market.

It is very hard to predict where this is all going, but at least Leica seems financially well situated to continue the exploration. Those companies who succeed in this market are going to have to figure out how to incorporate easy file sharing, along with simple, yet powerful, in-camera editing and printer communication, into their cameras. The world is fast becoming more connected, not less, and the camera manufacturers are woefully behind that curve.
 
Not really fair, is it?

Leica are struggeling to earn their money to survive in an environment where they make unique cameras (well, there are some who make non-autofocus cameras, I just don't remeber the name...)

The whole message is, well, the "Edition 60" is a collectors item. Great deal, thanks for telling, we didn't know that.

If some collectors produce a hype aroud Leica and this is only a markting campaingn, I don't mind.

I hope it works out.
Nikon will never make an FM-D (we have seen the DF).
 
Yes, digital is fundamentally different. But the reason I stick with film is not because I dislike digital. I just dislike digital cameras. The camera that I like the feel, exposure control layout and reflex viewfinder takes film so....ah well, that's what I use.

Sure, film cameras are not near as complex a digital boxes but I think after all that the complexity is in that innocent little can of color negative or color reversal material. The flexible, one use sensor that you feed your little marvel with. I have a notion even B&W is not so simple either.

PS; No, I'm not a professional or even an artist. If I had to make a living off of photography I'm sure I'd be using current digital photographic equipment.
 
jschrader said:
Not really fair, is it?

Leica are struggeling to earn their money to survive in an environment where they make unique cameras (well, there are some who make non-autofocus cameras, I just don't remeber the name...)

The whole message is, well, the "Edition 60" is a collectors item. Great deal, thanks for telling, we didn't know that.

If some collectors produce a hype aroud Leica and this is only a markting campaingn, I don't mind.

I hope it works out.
Nikon will never make an FM-D (we have seen the DF).
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+1

And there are other manufacturers who have also done this kind of thing for publicity, too (think of VW and the Bugatti Veyron; that wasn't a for-profit exercise at all.)
 
Thanks Dante, as usual well written and thought-provoking.

Having as my "user" a Hexar RF, I agree with what you say about Leica's (and Leica fan's) self-denial of technology - until Leica can/ do it.

I think the M Edition 60 is an interesting sideline. I agree that there will be a mainstream successor to the M 240 and that it will have bells and whistles. I hope (for their sake) they put in a hybrid viewfinder before Fuji completely master the tech to build a true electronic equivalent to the opto-mechanical rangefinder.
 
zuiko85 said:
Yes, digital is fundamentally different. But the reason I stick with film is not because I dislike digital. I just dislike digital cameras. The camera that I like the feel, exposure control layout and reflex viewfinder takes film so....ah well, that's what I use.

Sure, film cameras are not near as complex a digital boxes but I think after all that the complexity is in that innocent little can of color negative or color reversal material. The flexible, one use sensor that you feed your little marvel with. I have a notion even B&W is not so simple either.

PS; No, I'm not a professional or even an artist. If I had to make a living off of photography I'm sure I'd be using current digital photographic equipment.
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+1

"But the reason I stick with film is not because I dislike digital. I just dislike digital cameras."

Perfectly agreed.

I would take the digital equivalent of an M6 with b&w film, as I always repeat
 
Nicely written article.
As a publicity stunt it certainly worked. The Monochrom got Leica similar exposure, though in that case the product genuinely opened up new photographic possibilities.
 
doolittle said:
Nicely written article.
As a publicity stunt it certainly worked. The Monochrom got Leica similar exposure, though in that case the product genuinely opened up new photographic possibilities.
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The monochrom is an exciting camera. Anything that improved performance is, and the Monochrom takes small format B&W photogtaphy to a new height. Leica can definilty deliver when it wants to...
 
jschrader said:
+1

"But the reason I stick with film is not because I dislike digital. I just dislike digital cameras."

Perfectly agreed.
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+2

but I don't think the M60 is a much more likable digital than many other, due in part to some of the difficulties mentioned by Dante (although I don't think the camera --if it ever gets used by anyone seriously-- is meant to be used in the way he seems to imply in his article, ergo, the same way as an M9 or M240) .


I'm glad Leica manufactured it, any way, be it as a publicity stunt, or proof of concept. I hope it open a few creative minds about alternative camera design possibilities.
 
Much ado about nothing.

The M60 is purely designed as an almost whimsical yet collectible piece of photographic sculpture. That happens to be a camera.

If Leica did this as the regular production M, then that would be something to worry about.
 
jschrader said:
I would take the digital equivalent of an M6 with b&w film, as I always repeat
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You're in the magic window where the Monochrom is that camera and it's not $10,000 yet. Just buy a piece of leatherette, stick it on over the LCD (and you don't need a big piece), glue on an ASA dial, add a thumbs-up, and you're golden. If you shoot the equivalent of 400 rolls of film, or 14,400 shots (easy to achieve in a year or two), it pays for itself in what you don't spend on film and processing (or film, chemicals and labor for doing it yourself).

Although there is no question the Edition 60 is a novelty, one point of this is that there is still a contingent that believes that something like it would be functional - or professes to want something like this.

In addition to the PR aspect, like the fabled "shut up" engagement ring, Leica has given these people what they want. Whether they still want it after it takes concrete form (and a concrete price tag) is a totally different question. Leica will have no difficulty selling this quantity to collectors, but the chances are about zero that it would sell well enough to become a production item.

Dante
 
Dante_Stella said:
You're in the magic window where the Monochrom is that camera and it's not $10,000 yet. Just buy a piece of leatherette, stick it on over the LCD (and you don't need a big piece), glue on an ASA dial, add a thumbs-up, and you're golden. If you shoot the equivalent of 400 rolls of film, or 14,400 shots (easy to achieve in a year or two), it pays for itself in what you don't spend on film and processing (or film, chemicals and labor for doing it yourself).

Although there is no question the Edition 60 is a novelty, one point of this is that there is still a contingent that believes that something like it would be functional - or professes to want something like this.

In addition to the PR aspect, like the fabled "shut up" engagement ring, Leica has given these people what they want. Whether they still want it after it takes concrete form (and a concrete price tag) is a totally different question. Leica will have no difficulty selling this quantity to collectors, but the chances are about zero that it would sell well enough to become a production item.

Dante
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Hi Dante,
Love the way you write but I am curious as to why you chose to essentially review a product that you haven't used.
 
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"I would take the digital equivalent of an M6 with b&w film, as I always repeat"

Have you looked at the Epson RD1 series? The only thing it lacks is the low ISO of some films, and that's become rather rare anyway.
 
The RD-1 is not full-frame, but I agree that it is the digital camera that has come closest to offering an enlightened "retro" experience. The perfect M60 for me would have been a digital M7, i.e., same size, same shutter (also the more sensitive meter), but w/a small LCD for menu settings.

Darthfeeble said:
"I would take the digital equivalent of an M6 with b&w film, as I always repeat"

Have you looked at the Epson RD1 series? The only thing it lacks is the low ISO of some films, and that's become rather rare anyway.
Click to expand...
 
furcafe said:
The RD-1 is not full-frame, but I agree that it is the digital camera that has come closest to offering an enlightened "retro" experience. The perfect M60 for me would have been a digital M7, i.e., same size, same shutter (also the more sensitive meter), but w/a small LCD for menu settings.
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The M9 is in a lot of ways the digital M7.
 
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