M10M 41-42 MP sensor rumor

[jsrockit]

When a 5 year old Nikon D750 that you can buy new right now for $1500 has a better sensor than the current $7300 Leica M10, well, Leica buyers deserve better.

We both know that Leica M users do not buy Leica Ms for the latest in sensor tech. Also, there is no D750 monochrome direct from Nikon. Finally, not many cameras have surpassed the D750 sensor... this is not a Leica only problem.

 

[Emile de Leon]

I used to own a 1960 Volvo P1800...
Didnt go very fast..but it was fun to drive..and what a looker..

 

[Calzone]

I’m not sure if there will ever be an SL monochrome... has there been a rumor even?

Regarding the size of files, I hear this a lot. If your computer is really old maybe it could struggle, but I’ve been processing 42mp files on a 3 year old laptop and it doesn’t even blink. No difference between the 24mp and 42mp files that I can tell when processing. Of course they take up more space, but that’s the only real difference I can see.

John,

The only one talking about a SLM or SL2-M is me. I'm not sure it is in Leica's planning, but if they made one it would be great for me. Anyways it would be a very serious camera. Not for everyone, but for some a dream come true. Perhaps Leica is lurking on this thread... Ha-Ha.

Maybe make it a "Calzone" version. LOL. In December I'll be in Germany doing that luxury cruise with "Maggie." BTW Leica is one of her followers. Perhaps I might run into Peter Karbe... LOL. I know I'm being a bit of a dillusional artist, but Leica making a M-Monochrome 6 years ago was kinda crazy. Now a M10M is rumored to be released soon.

The APO-SL Crons are a big deal for IQ. A SL2-M would be unreal IQ for B&W.

BTW I suspect that the "Monster" 50 Lux-SL uses APO advances. It lists special glass, but isn't marketed as APO like the Crons. What goes unsaid by many is the great rendering, but it surely is a "Porker."

That's good news that my old Mac powerbook that was fully loaded from 5-6 years ago might have legs. Great to be cheap-cheap-cheap. I often wondered about this. Perhaps if you are using extensive masking in Photoshop in one's post processing the huge file size becomes an issue.

I know when "Mike the skinny hipster" borrowed a Leica "S" three lens kit from Leica for a shoot he said the file size was an issue. Mike had "Max" his retoucher post process the hell out of these images. These images are published in the latest issue of Leica Fotographica Internacional and Leica "S" magazine. This heavy processing I do not do. Also I lack the skills. Max utilized heavy masking.

Way back when I went to a workshop at the Leica Store in SoHo that involved using Leica "S" glass via an adapter on an SL. I wondered why anyone would ever do that. There is a 100/2.0 "S" lens, and John Kreider the Leica technical specialist showed me zoomed in on the skin tone on the corner of one of my eyes. A world of detail that exceeds my native SL glass. It was really impressive how close to medium format IQ it was.

This was evident on a screen of a teathered laptop and not on a calibrated monitor.

My guess is because I print big that my eyes got trained to see and notice the IQ. You have said that the best tool for a photographer is a "trained eye."

BTW this Leica 3 lens "S" kit is basically in the possession of a Leica sponsored artist, that has the stipulation of lending it out when directed by Leica. "Mike the skinny hipster" mentioned that he simply knocked on the door of an address on the Lower Eastside, a guy open the door, and then handed him a loaded Pelican case without exchanging a word like some 1970's drug deal from back in the day.

Cal

 

[Calzone]

I used to own a 1960 Volvo P1800...
Didnt go very fast..but it was fun to drive..and what a looker..

Emile,

My Volvo 122S had the same B18D engine as your P1800 that was featured in the series "The Saint."

Cal

 

[raid]

Raid,

I still have that 70"s attitude. Back then we lived like there was no tomorrow. We did a lot of dumb things. Somehow I became old...

I have had an exciting life. My only two regrets: not using sunscreen; and having been a cigarette smoker for 15 years.

Cal

Watching out for such risk factors has become more discussed in recent years, as you know, Cal. Stay healthy.

 

[filmtwit]

How big do you want to print?

Cal

who has walls big enough for images that big!

 

[Calzone]

who has walls big enough for images that big!

FT,

I wonder since your interest is in making digital negatives is the added resolution overkill in your case?

I also wonder is how big is big and how to define it. For me I like nosing into a print where I don't see any pixelating or fuzziness as per large format.

As an example I cite the Salgado print from "Genesis" I saw in Chelsea that was matted and framed without glass. I was able to nose into a large format print that was expertly performed.

Also consider at some point the barrier between film and digital gets crossed.

Salgado's "Genesis" exhibition made that distinction somewhat very hard to tell.

Only because I print big I could make out the digital image capture via the enhanced shadow detail, and the film image capture had the smoother rolloff in the highlights.

Granted that Salgado had the best lab in Paris, and that the wet prints were made from 4x5 digital negatives.

I would think that the enhanced resolution would serve contact printing large prints in say limited editions using current Piezography.

I would also think that these advances in both Piezography Digital Negatives for contact printing and the enhanced overkill in resolution and IQ makes the availability of approaching or even matching Salgado's results without having the best lab in Paris printing for us.

Basically even a guy like me can do a "Salgado" using turnkey systems at home. To me this is a big deal. The heavy lifting has been done for us by both Jon Cone and Leica. For B&W only printing a dream has become reality.

Cal

 

[Calzone]

Watching out for such risk factors has become more discussed in recent years, as you know, Cal. Stay healthy.

Raid,

I'm taking very good care of myself now. I quit smoking decades ago, and I still look young. Today I'm 153 pounds and that is within 2 pounds of the median BMI for my height. I remain muscular.

Never thought I would live this long, but now it seems I likely could live past 100 if I have enough money to do so.

Cal

 

[raid]

Good for you! I wish I were as healthy as you are.

 

[Ko.Fe.]

I’m not sure why MF IQ has to be measured in MP only.
Nine of the digital M has decent DR of even 135 format.
Or is it about digital MF; which is crop of real MF 🙂

 

[Huss]

I used to own a 1960 Volvo P1800...
Didnt go very fast..but it was fun to drive..and what a looker..

I like to use a pepper grinder with a hand crank. Not the type with the knob. It may seem more awkward but it produces are far more satisfying grind.

 

[filmtwit]

FT,

I wonder since your interest is in making digital negatives is the added resolution overkill in your case?

. . .
Cal

I'm still looking at my walls, going, 24" x 24" print, now add 6-10" for the frame, and I can put this on exactly one wall in my apartment and I don't think I should put up anything else as it will make things too busy and . . .
The same could be said for most people I know and their living conditions.

Extra resolution is great, but practicality is where it's at. I've also only had my M246 for about 9 months, so I'm not included to toss it for the next best thing. Hell, I kept my first gen M longer then I think most people should I and upgraded in part because I could literally cycle my M7 quicker.

 

[Freakscene]

The APO-SL Crons are a big deal for IQ. A SL2-M would be unreal IQ for B&W.

New lenses generally make a big difference. I’ve found that even with 24mp in the 246 that older lenses show their flaws substantially more than on the 18mp MM sensor. The film era lenses, for example, seem to be quite poorly protected from rear element-sensor flare. So my f1 Noctilux which was almost flare proof on film, shows some very interesting and weird flare with a digital sensor under some lighting conditions.

Marty

 

[filmtwit]

New lenses generally make a big difference. I’ve found that even with 24mp in the 246 that older lenses show their flaws substantially more than on the 18mp MM sensor. The film era lenses, for example, seem to be quite poorly protected from rear element-sensor flare. So my f1 Noctilux which was almost flare proof on film, shows some very interesting and weird flare with a digital sensor under some lighting conditions.

Marty

Aye. I really liked my old 50mm f1.4 Nikkor-sc on my 1st gen Monochrom, but it wasn't soo special on the M246 and I've subsequently been using a much newer 50 these days.

 

[Calzone]

I'm still looking at my walls, going, 24" x 24" print, now add 6-10" for the frame, and I can put this on exactly one wall in my apartment and I don't think I should put up anything else as it will make things too busy and . . .
The same could be said for most people I know and their living conditions.

Extra resolution is great, but practicality is where it's at. I've also only had my M246 for about 9 months, so I'm not included to toss it for the next best thing. Hell, I kept my first gen M longer then I think most people should I and upgraded in part because I could literally cycle my M7 quicker.

FT,

I understand. I live in a 650 square foot apartment with a celeb fashion blogger. The place is booby trapped with woman's clothes, shoes and handbags.

For me I have all these images of NYC that could be marketed to decorate lobbies of high rises, commercial buildings, hotels and other large buildings. Pretty much if you live in an apartment one big image is like living with a billboard, unless you live in a loft.

For me the overkill is a good thing because it will likely get used. Also know that I still own and shoot my 18MP Monochrom because it is still a great camera warts and all. I know the M-246 is a much more advanced camera...

Cal

 

[Calzone]

I’m not sure why MF IQ has to be measured in MP only.
Nine of the digital M has decent DR of even 135 format.
Or is it about digital MF; which is crop of real MF 🙂

Ko.Fe,

For me MF IQ to some extent is related to print size.

Printing big expands the tonal range, and this is where files from small format cameras look and resemble medium format. The tonality is less about contrast and is more about shadow detail and a vast midrange.

So my response is that the medium format look is twofold: one is enhanced detail via resolution; and also enhanced detail in an expanded tonality.

Files have a lot of detail that you can't see unless you make big prints. I print 12x18 image size for my proofing and for my small image size, but my large prints are 20x30 image size on 24x36 sheet. Things really open up on a big print. Much more detail as far as resolution and tonality.

I dare say that with some files from my Monochrom (18MP) have made people ask if it was shot with large format.

Your point is well taken. Resolution alone does not make medium format IQ.

Cal

 

[airfrogusmc]

Ha ha yeah I knew it wouldn't take long for the Leica haters to jump in. No matter how you slice it a Nikon D 750 (great camera BTW) will never be a rangefinder. The M 10 is a great camera no matter how you slice and dice it. Don't like it, don't buy it, period. There are a multitude of the others that aren't rangefinders out there. Pick one.

I am really curious to see what the M 10 M will be. Cal, I have had similar responses from seeing my work from the original 18mp MM.

 

[Calzone]

Ha ha yeah I knew it wouldn't take long for the Leica haters to jump in. No matter how you slice it a Nikon D 750 (great camera BTW) will never be a rangefinder. The M 10 is a great camera no matter how you slice and dice it. Don't like it, don't buy it, period. There are a multitude of the others that aren't rangefinders out there. Pick one.

I am really curious to see what the M 10 M will be. Cal, I have had similar responses from seeing my work from the original 18mp MM.

Alan,

The original MM makes great files in the right hands. With some exceptional files I wish I had a 44 inch printer.

My friend Klaus and I say, "Big prints don't lie!" LOL.

Cal

 

[Emile de Leon]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emile de Leon
I used to own a 1960 Volvo P1800...
Didnt go very fast..but it was fun to drive..and what a looker..

Huss,

I like to use a pepper grinder with a hand crank. Not the type with the knob. It may seem more awkward but it produces are far more satisfying grind.

Yeah...but try picking up girls with your pepper grinder..lol...

 

[airfrogusmc]

Alan,

The original MM makes great files in the right hands. With some exceptional files I wish I had a 44 inch printer.

My friend Klaus and I say, "Big prints don't lie!" LOL.

Cal

Absolutely. Shot a job for a client that the finals were 36 X 54 and you could get right up on the prints. They were the main stairwell of a hospital client.

My show in Chicago June 2018 were all 12 X 18 though the exhibit in Germany this past May weren't that large because the gallery supplied frames and also the cost of shipping.