m2 frame counter

[mojobebop]

i've acquired a m2 #1049xxx
for $849.00.

all seems to be working fine.
the frame counter is incredibly difficult to turn.
seems like a minor matter, since i would guess that
the mechanism is independent of the internal gears/shutter.

should i be concerned?

advance shutter, and speeds, rangefinder all seem to be working.
cosmetically it's also looking good.

thank you for any advice

 

[like2fiddle]

It should not be that difficult to turn. Perhaps it needs to be lubed. Does it advance properly when winding the film? Some have suggested a drop of lighter fluid to temporarily revive dry lubricant in camera gears. The bottom line is, of course, a proper CLA.

 

[helen.HH]

my M2 has an even lovely click sound and ease of movement when turning on
each frame number....
Cheers!- H

 

[Al Kaplan]

If it loosens up with the lighter fluid take a toothpick and apply a wee little bit of a light penetrating oil- Marvel is good - and a 4 oz. squeeze bottle won't break you, but apply it BEFORE all the lighter fluid evaporates from under the dial. It'll help get the oil under the dial as you work the dial back and forth. You'll feel it getting smother and smoother. Eventually, though, a mixture of dirt and corrosion will still build up under the dial, but that should get you through until the next CLA.

The dial is designed so that if you always shoot full 36 exposure rolls it'll always end up in the same place for the next roll. Well, that's the theory anyway...LOL. When you load the camera and wind off the couple of blank frames make note of what it says on the dial and write it down with a fine point Sharpie on the piece of masking tape on top of your camera, right next to where you wrote "Tri-X". (This looks really "pro" on a black body.)

The last possibility is to admit that you rarely look at the dang frame counter anyway when you're actually involved in shooting. You know that when the wind lever stops half way that it's time to rewind.

 

[mojobebop]

it does advance, and i do hear the clicking as well.
just really hard to turn.
no big deal i suppose.
possibly with time it will ease up.

as long as everything else functions correctly
i will probably live with it.

in terms of the lighter fluid fix.
nothing needs be disassembled?

 

[Al Kaplan]

No disassembly. You just want to get it under the dial followed by a bit of lubricant. It's a very common problem with old M2 bodies. After all, they were the "entry level cheap" Leica M, about 1/3 less than an M3 if you bought the version without a self timer.

 

[nobbylon]

Al,
the only problem is that the felt washer will probably stop the lube or lighter fluid getting underneath and will prob ruin the adhesive that keeps said washer in place under the dial,
regards j

 

[mojobebop]

No disassembly. You just want to get it under the dial followed by a bit of lubricant. It's a very common problem with old M2 bodies. After all, they were the "entry level cheap" Leica M, about 1/3 less than an M3 if you bought the version without a self timer.

--------------------
sorry, i am not mechanically minded in any sense.

to apply the lighter fluid, i would put a drop around the circumference of the dial
using the tip of the applicator? then move it around, and if successful then use oil?

the lighter fluid evaporates quickly and if using a sparse amount there should be no danger of it seeping into the body. is this correct?

sorry to be so detailed.

 

[FrankS]

If you are going to try the lighter fluid, do not use the lighter fluid container to apply it. You can't control the amount that comes out well enough. Drip some lighter fluid on a toothpick so you can see that there is only one drop or a partial drop there. Then apply it to the circumference of the film counter ring, then turn the ring. Repeat if necessary but only a few times.

It would not be a big problem for a technician to disassemble this area of the camera and clean it up properly. I would do this: take it to a technician.

 

[Al Kaplan]

In most old and well used M2 and M1 bodies I've seen the felt washer is loose, sometimes sticking out a bit on one side or another from under the dial, and often pretty much disintegrated from age and wear or not even present anymore. The oldest M2 bodies are over 50 years old and the youngest are aproaching their 40th birthday.

The tiny amount of lighter fluid or oil that might seep into the camera will only get to the wind mechanism. You'd have to flood the area for any to migrate far enough to get near the shutter mechanism, and the range/viewfinder optics are even further away.

 

[FrankS]

How about using a length of dental floss to clean out the crud under the frame counter dial?

 

[Tom A]

The film counter on the M2 can seize up with age (same as for most of us!). The felt washer gets dry and hard and there is also a flatspring that can push too hard on the lever. If the lever has been removed for a service (getting the top plate off) and the collar (the dish shaped cup around the release) has been screwed down to tight against the spring underneath- it can cause the disc to seize against the felt.
I have to admit that about 1/2 of my M2's have correct counters. proper clicks etc and the other half either spins freely or are stuck. Not a big deal as you cant advance any more when you come to the end of the roll!

 

[Al Kaplan]

Hey, not knowing how many shots you'd taken wasn't a complaint when Ilford marketed the 72 exposure rolls.

Heaven: 72 exposure Kodachrome II and a one-hour K-14 processing machine at Walgreens. Archival slides along with scans and 4x6 prints.

 

[payasam]

Floss is a good idea, Frank. I shall remember this.

 

[mojobebop]

thank you so much for your assistance.
i will take your advice, and make an attempt.

 

[mojobebop]

sorry for my ignorance.
but the button on the m2 framecounter.
should one be able to push that down?
or is it merely cosmetic?

thanks in advance.

 

[Al Kaplan]

I'm not sure what its function is but it doesn't push. Ignore it.

 

[mojobebop]

good.
thanks again.

 

[Tom A]

The chrome "button" on the M2 - next to the frame counter is actually a screw that holds down the top-plate. You can push on it to your hearts content and nothing will happen.

 

[splitimageview]

"Button" is probably the most accurate technical term. 🙂 The M3 has a retaining ring that is under the film advance lever that helps to secure the top plate. Since the M2 has the frame counter in that location, that task is accomplished by the button.