M2 light leak

[Shoot film]

Hi David,
Thanks for dropping back in with the update and congrats on solving the problem. I will look at the door possibility. However, others have noted that leaks that come through the back flap have to hit the emulsion after passing through the film base and should therefore appear orange, whereas my leak comes up white on color film. I don't know how absolute that rule is however.

Another suggestion for another forum is the take up side strap lug, because the film is wound emulsion side outwards onto the take up spool. Light from a loose lug would hit the emulsion first, and the position of the leak on my negatives might be consistent with a lug leak. My lugs seem rock solid however.....

I will do some further testing

Grateful to all who have pitched in

Mike

 

[davidnewtonguitars]

And here I am a little over a year later with the same light leak. This is again stitched together from 2 adjacent frames scanned. On fast film on sunny days, not every frame, but many.
I taped over the back door seams again, and shot a roll on a very sunny day, and that roll was perfect.
I made felt seals with adhesive backing, about 1/16" wide, and placed them in the three back door light seal gutters, but where the door lips did not press on the felt, but closed next to the new seals.
I shot a test strip of six shots and it shows no leaks.
I will add a picture of the seal job shortly, when the camera is empty, after checking the next developed roll for any leaks.

 

[davidnewtonguitars]

So I also shot a roll of C-41 before sealing, and the leaks show as red. Per another "leak thread" a red (orange) leak indicates the leak is from behind the film.
After doing my sealing job, I shot a roll of PanF 50, new film for me, in bright sun here Texas with no hints of leaks of any kind.

The felt seal is a 2-part job, with felt attached to the un-sticky side of gaffer tape with 2-side adhesive, then cut into narrow strips and placed in the light-trap channel on 3 sides. These sealing strips sit on the inner side of the back door tabs, but not under them, so as to not obstruct the door from shutting fully.
The top side of the door has a strip of tape that just turns the corner into the hinge channel, sealing the top of the door. Maybe I could have done this one from the inside, but this way I can renew it easily.
I think the leak comes primarily from the upper right door corner area and leaks onto the film where it feeds onto the sprocket.

 

[nickthetasmaniac]

Keep us updated on how this goes.

So I also shot a roll of C-41 before sealing, and the leaks show as red. Per another "leak thread" a red (orange) leak indicates the leak is from behind the film.
After doing my sealing job, I shot a roll of PanF 50, new film for me, in bright sun here Texas with no hints of leaks of any kind.

As mentioned in another thread, my M2 has been going back and forth to the Australian Leica service centre trying to fix a very similar issue. Their latest repair was to place a light seal around the rewind lever (which I hadn't thought of as a possible source). I'll have a roll developed by the end of the week to see if the issue is still present...

 

[nickthetasmaniac]

If someone does a CLA on an early M2, and replaces the early M2 light shield with a light shield from a later M2, (don't laugh, it happened to me) and does nothing else, you will get a light leak.

An update for anyone who stumbles across the same issue...

TL;DR - it was the missing RF light trap, exactly as highlighted by Larry.

To elaborate... I ended up sending my M2 to DAG (after two years and a bunch of visits to two seperate and well regarded Australian technicians). Don quickly diagnosed the issue as the missing baffle at the end of the RF assembly.

What led to the confusion was that my M2 is a late-model (sn. 1104xxx) and the issue is very specific to early-model bodies. Mine should have the later RF assembly with the plastic plug.

However, back in 2017 (when the leak first began to appear), I had the M2 repaired for a detached VF optic ('viewfinder blackout'). What the technician didn't tell me then, was that in the process of fixing the viewfinder he replaced the original RF with one from an early model (apparently with the late model's light baffle)... Knowing this would have saved an awful lot of time, money and anxiety.

An example for anyone trying to diagnose a similar leak.

 

[Freakscene]

Thanks Nick. So Camera Clinic didn’t fix it on more than one visit? Discouraging.

Marty

 

[nickthetasmaniac]

Thanks Nick. So Camera Clinic didn’t fix it on more than one visit? Discouraging.

Marty

No. It went back to them 6 times over an 8 month period before they eventually refunded me. Every time it came back they said they’d fixed it, and a single test roll made it clear the leak was still there.

Frustratingly, I suggested the RF issue before they worked on it the first time, and actually sent one of Larry’s photos above to highlight the possible problem.

I know people generally speak highly of CC, but I won’t use them again.

 

[Freakscene]

No. It went back to them 6 times over an 8 month period before they eventually refunded me. Every time it came back they said they’d fixed it, and a single test roll made it clear the leak was still there.

Frustratingly, I suggested the RF issue before they worked on it the first time, and actually sent one of Larry’s photos above to highlight the possible problem.

I know people generally speak highly of CC, but I won’t use them again.

I have only ever sent them modern film Leicas (MP and M7) and they did a good job. This is useful to know.

Marty

 

[Larry Cloetta]

To be fair to other repair clinics out there, the first time I sent my M2 to DAG with this problem, and included the negative strips demonstrating it, asking that it be fixed, it came back to me with the same leak. I shot a couple of rolls, found it was still there, and sent it back to him. In the meantime I had done a few test rolls and discovered that the leak wasn’t there if I covered up the RF window with tape and shot a few frames. He apologized and then spent some time figuring it out on his own. He told me that in the entire time he had spent with Leica being trained, this was never mentioned as being a potential problem. He’d never addressed it before until he spent what he said was a fair amount of time piecing it together. Someone who didn’t have his level of knowledge of which parts went into which serial number group of cameras would have likely never figured it out. He allowed as, given how innocuous the parts substitution would seem to most techs, this is probably going to be a more common issue with M2 bodies that have had CLA’s. I had originally purchased the M2 from a long time member here who refused to take the camera back when I told him it had a light leak. He sold it to me as having had a recent CLA, a CLA which had been done by one of the more popular techs in the U.S. I am not criticizing that tech; as Don said, it’s an easy mistake to make, and one wouldn’t think it would make any difference. As he said at the time, no matter how long he has been working on Leicas, he’s still learning things.

 

[rolfe]

DAG is also the only one who could fix a stubborn M3 light leak for me after trips to two other well known techs here in the U.S.

Rolfe

 

[davidnewtonguitars]

Sorry I didn't post the solution to my light leak here, but in another M2 leak thread. It was the baffle that Larry Coletta posted above. I sealed the flap of the baffle around the rangefinder prism and all is good now. Not an easy fix to take of the top cover, but at least that is as deep as was needed.