M2 or M3 or M4 or M4 - P or newer M's??
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squirrel$$$bandit
Veteran
It isn't. But it's fast!
noah b
Established
If you like 50mm I'd say M3, but it doesnt' have the 35 framelines. You can get a 35mm Summaron lens with the goggles on it if you like. M4 or M2 for 35 would be my best bet, I've always wanted one of those myself. I'm not familiar with any of the newer M bodies, I'm partial to the older models.
KoNickon
Nick Merritt
No one has mentioned the M5 -- I think an M5 with something like the Ultron 35/1.7 ought to fall easily within the original poster's budget. Framelines for 35/135, 50, and 90.
And it's not THAT much bigger than the other Ms.
And it's not THAT much bigger than the other Ms.
usagisakana
Established
I'm sort of trying to decide between a metered M body or a meterless at the moment- I find that most of the time when using a camera with metering, I am using a manual mode anyway... so I'm starting to think that having a meter in camera isn't all that important for me personally.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
JNewell
Leica M Recidivist
JNewell
Leica M Recidivist
Good observations all, though I think my point is valid! 😉😀
sepiareverb
genius and moron
paachi
DOF Luster
Thanks a lot folks..it is interesting to hear perspectives on the various M's..Vic's comment on the even numbered M's is quite an observation..I have indeed lusted after the M3 but the lack of 35mm puts me off..So it looks like it could be an M2 or M4 for me..surprisingly in the many months that I have lurked here at RFF I have never seen a M4 on sale..probably because it is the most sought after Leica??
Also, I would like to share an observation..I was at the Schipol airport in Amsterdam, where I got a chance to play with an M8 with a 75mm Summilux..it was the first time I was holding a range finder in 15 years (my last tryst was a Minolta HiMatic)..it somehow felt bulky and unwieldy to my inexperienced hands..Is this my hallucination or do folks in the forum also have such an experience?? The Minolta and Pentax ME II Super (my vintage 🙂 ) were manual cameras that felt perfect in my hands..the M8 somehow did not..I am hoping you folks will tell me that film M's are much more handleable..
I am also interested to know of other options to buy RF gear from. Somehow the RFF feels like a very safe place and one tends to believe the sellers here (don't ask me why, I did a try in KEH but never got the feel good factor of RFF)..
Also, I would like to share an observation..I was at the Schipol airport in Amsterdam, where I got a chance to play with an M8 with a 75mm Summilux..it was the first time I was holding a range finder in 15 years (my last tryst was a Minolta HiMatic)..it somehow felt bulky and unwieldy to my inexperienced hands..Is this my hallucination or do folks in the forum also have such an experience?? The Minolta and Pentax ME II Super (my vintage 🙂 ) were manual cameras that felt perfect in my hands..the M8 somehow did not..I am hoping you folks will tell me that film M's are much more handleable..
I am also interested to know of other options to buy RF gear from. Somehow the RFF feels like a very safe place and one tends to believe the sellers here (don't ask me why, I did a try in KEH but never got the feel good factor of RFF)..
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maddoc
... likes film again.
paachi,
you have missed my M4 on sale here at RFF about a month ago 😉
Cheers,
Gabor
you have missed my M4 on sale here at RFF about a month ago 😉
Cheers,
Gabor
paachi
DOF Luster
drat!! grad school and its demands..my bad..
Roger Hicks
Veteran
(1) Hardly.
(2) Yes, the few millimetres of pudginess on the M8 make it feel disproportionately bigger than film Leicas.
Cheers,
R.
Mark Jones
Newbie
Having had the good fortune, over the years to own and use the M2, M3, M4-P, M6ttl, M7 and MP, I would say:
(1) My least favourite is the M4-P. No logic to that, it just doesn’t “feel” as good as some of the others to me.
(2) The M3 is an icon, but beware if you want to use anything shorter than a 50mm lens. Also, I don’t buy the “it’s better built” view. It might be (I can’t say), but I never noticed any discernible difference.
(3) The M6ttl and M7 are great cameras, but (a) the “wrong way round” shutter speed dial is irrationally irritating and (b) the extra 2mm or 3mm of height is noticeable (although that might be because I have smallish hands).
(4) I’d be hard put to choose between the M2 and MP. They are my two favourites. Both of them “just feel right”. If I absolutely had to choose one or the other, I'd go for the MP, but only because it has a built in meter.
But when all is said and done, you can’t really go wrong with any of them. Good condition and a good price are probably of more practical importance than which model you buy.
So, for me, it doesn’t really matter which model you choose - just buy one and enjoy using it!
(1) My least favourite is the M4-P. No logic to that, it just doesn’t “feel” as good as some of the others to me.
(2) The M3 is an icon, but beware if you want to use anything shorter than a 50mm lens. Also, I don’t buy the “it’s better built” view. It might be (I can’t say), but I never noticed any discernible difference.
(3) The M6ttl and M7 are great cameras, but (a) the “wrong way round” shutter speed dial is irrationally irritating and (b) the extra 2mm or 3mm of height is noticeable (although that might be because I have smallish hands).
(4) I’d be hard put to choose between the M2 and MP. They are my two favourites. Both of them “just feel right”. If I absolutely had to choose one or the other, I'd go for the MP, but only because it has a built in meter.
But when all is said and done, you can’t really go wrong with any of them. Good condition and a good price are probably of more practical importance than which model you buy.
So, for me, it doesn’t really matter which model you choose - just buy one and enjoy using it!
vieri
Leica Ambassador
Totally agree. I was thinking that the MP was the best M out there (I got 2!), then I got an M2... 😀 it has a fantastic feel to it, and if you don't need a meter, just go for it. You'll not regret it.
tedwin
Established
I finally get the 'feel' thing. Since needing a stand in for my away being aligned ZI I bought an M3. Fell in love, and decided an MP would be best of both worlds. I found an MP, took the M3 and returned ZI to meet it. Had a good old play / comparison of wind on, weight, balance, viewfinders etc. between the three.
The ZI had best viewfinder, the M3 undoubtedly felt the best, and was the smoothest, quietest, loveliest of the lot to handle. The MP struggled to live up to its price. Although any cheaper and I would get one.
To the OP - who hasn't actually mentioned preferred focal length I can strongly suggest you consider an M3, VCII meter, and Voigtlander 40mm f1.4 lens. In budget, best feel, fast crisp lens, metered. The 40mm is a great compromise between 35mm and 50mm, and the M3 viewfinder covers the whole image so long as you are not a glass wearer.
Let us know what you end up with.
The ZI had best viewfinder, the M3 undoubtedly felt the best, and was the smoothest, quietest, loveliest of the lot to handle. The MP struggled to live up to its price. Although any cheaper and I would get one.
To the OP - who hasn't actually mentioned preferred focal length I can strongly suggest you consider an M3, VCII meter, and Voigtlander 40mm f1.4 lens. In budget, best feel, fast crisp lens, metered. The 40mm is a great compromise between 35mm and 50mm, and the M3 viewfinder covers the whole image so long as you are not a glass wearer.
Let us know what you end up with.
Tom A
RFF Sponsor
It probably will not come as a surprise that I recommend the M2. Over the decades I have at one time and another owned and used every M-model, but I somehow revert back to the M2. Simple finder, 3 frames and only the one in use shows up! They are easier to fix than M3's (particularly when it comes to finders and early Double Stroke shutterbrakes).
$1500 should get you a decent M2 with a recent service (preferably documented) and either a 35 (Zeiss ZM Biogon 35f2) or a 50mm f2.0 Planar. Both of these lenses are as good as, or even better than the Leica offerings, unless you are looking at $3000 50f1.4 Asph or Summicron 35f2 Asph/Summicron 35mm f2.0 IV.
Start off with one lens only and get used to the camera. The loading/unloading is different on the M2 from the M4. Not worse or better, just different. Either way you can unload/reload in 25-30 sec. with some experience with with either one. The M4 is good, but why have a 135 frame sitting in the middle of your 35 frame, if you can avoid it. The slanted rewind on the M4 is weaker than the "post" style of the M2/M3 - I have bent or cracked a multitude of these on M4/M4-2/M4P's.
Just get one lens/one body to start with in any case and the suggestion to get the Nokton 40f1.4 is not a bad one either. Simple and a damned good lens too. Just take a step back for a 35 view and a step forward for something close to a 50.
However, be forewarned - Leicas and particularly M2's are highly addictive and you will develop all kinds of rationals for getting "just another one"!
$1500 should get you a decent M2 with a recent service (preferably documented) and either a 35 (Zeiss ZM Biogon 35f2) or a 50mm f2.0 Planar. Both of these lenses are as good as, or even better than the Leica offerings, unless you are looking at $3000 50f1.4 Asph or Summicron 35f2 Asph/Summicron 35mm f2.0 IV.
Start off with one lens only and get used to the camera. The loading/unloading is different on the M2 from the M4. Not worse or better, just different. Either way you can unload/reload in 25-30 sec. with some experience with with either one. The M4 is good, but why have a 135 frame sitting in the middle of your 35 frame, if you can avoid it. The slanted rewind on the M4 is weaker than the "post" style of the M2/M3 - I have bent or cracked a multitude of these on M4/M4-2/M4P's.
Just get one lens/one body to start with in any case and the suggestion to get the Nokton 40f1.4 is not a bad one either. Simple and a damned good lens too. Just take a step back for a 35 view and a step forward for something close to a 50.
However, be forewarned - Leicas and particularly M2's are highly addictive and you will develop all kinds of rationals for getting "just another one"!
paachi
DOF Luster
Hello Everyone!!
Thanks for all the advice and guidance..I finally bought an M2..the 35mm frames did it.. I got a good deal for an M2 with a MR meter with hardly any dents or dings for $775. I have mated it with a 40mm Leitz Summicron, 55 Industrar and 90mm Elmar-C. All totaling to $1400.
As I cruised through my first roll of Tri-X through it, I could immediately realize that I was shooting lesser images and slower. Each image took a gestation period and thereby making me forget about the urgency to capture the moment and rather anticipate it. Proactive instead of reactive if you may. With the 30D I would have blitzed through 10 images in the time I shot one image with the M2. The first roll is almost done. I am making a trip to NY this weekend to get some film developing supplies from Adorama and will try and develop it myself. I will post my scanned images soon. The results should help me refine my technique..I am sure there is going to be a good learning curve.
As far as the aesthetics and feel goes, the M2 feels buttery smooth. The example I have is clocking 48 years years as of today, the film advance is smooth and the rangefinder is bright and contrasty. The vulkanit is pristine (except for a chip under the lens). Infact I shot through 50 frames without the film in it, just for the pleasurable feeling. 😉 Another interesting point is the manual reset of the film counter..it somehow feels very mechanical, very fundamental and appeases the engineer in me to no end. Call me a poseur but the experience of getting the bottom open, loading the reel and film gives you an elitist feeling and I simply love it 🙂
Compared to the Pentax ME Super it feels more dense. But nothing to knock against the ME Super, it is my darling and will always be so.
Once again thanks a lot for all the help..hopefully I can also begin contributing in the forthcoming days..
Oh yes I almost forgot to mention, I have christened my M2 as 'Maya'. Maya means magic or illusion in Sanskrit.. 😀
Regards,
Prashant Kumar.
Thanks for all the advice and guidance..I finally bought an M2..the 35mm frames did it.. I got a good deal for an M2 with a MR meter with hardly any dents or dings for $775. I have mated it with a 40mm Leitz Summicron, 55 Industrar and 90mm Elmar-C. All totaling to $1400.
As I cruised through my first roll of Tri-X through it, I could immediately realize that I was shooting lesser images and slower. Each image took a gestation period and thereby making me forget about the urgency to capture the moment and rather anticipate it. Proactive instead of reactive if you may. With the 30D I would have blitzed through 10 images in the time I shot one image with the M2. The first roll is almost done. I am making a trip to NY this weekend to get some film developing supplies from Adorama and will try and develop it myself. I will post my scanned images soon. The results should help me refine my technique..I am sure there is going to be a good learning curve.
As far as the aesthetics and feel goes, the M2 feels buttery smooth. The example I have is clocking 48 years years as of today, the film advance is smooth and the rangefinder is bright and contrasty. The vulkanit is pristine (except for a chip under the lens). Infact I shot through 50 frames without the film in it, just for the pleasurable feeling. 😉 Another interesting point is the manual reset of the film counter..it somehow feels very mechanical, very fundamental and appeases the engineer in me to no end. Call me a poseur but the experience of getting the bottom open, loading the reel and film gives you an elitist feeling and I simply love it 🙂
Compared to the Pentax ME Super it feels more dense. But nothing to knock against the ME Super, it is my darling and will always be so.
Once again thanks a lot for all the help..hopefully I can also begin contributing in the forthcoming days..
Oh yes I almost forgot to mention, I have christened my M2 as 'Maya'. Maya means magic or illusion in Sanskrit.. 😀
Regards,
Prashant Kumar.
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maddoc
... likes film again.
I think that you made a very good decision 🙂 ... and congrats to your new camera !
Post some photos when the first film is developed (and scanned) !!
Cheers,
Gabor
PS: The M2 is the only M I have never handled .... Hm ...
Post some photos when the first film is developed (and scanned) !!
Cheers,
Gabor
PS: The M2 is the only M I have never handled .... Hm ...
vieri
Leica Ambassador
Tell me about it - am I crazy or what, but I am considering selling one of my MPs and getting a second M2! 😀 With the spare change, I will be able to get a nice lens to go with it too, or a second IIIc or g, which I love as well since I got one... will it ever end? :bang:
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