M240 sensor cleaing question

[Ko.Fe.]

So when people tell you that the digital is cheaper: did you count in the camera sensor cleaning kit+swabs?

The in-camera sensor cleaning is gimmick. Where do you think the dust goes when the sensor "shakes it off" ?

I have dust reduction on 2009 EOS 500D. Its sensor has less dust than M-E returned from Leica with new sensor in 2018. I changed lenses on 500D much often. I haven't done dust cleaning at all. Not needed, on 500D. M-E already has one big spot not removable with the rocket blower.

Cleaning is not expensive for DIY. Just hard to find 90% alcohol these days. Nothing in the regular stores as it used to be. Only 70%.
I reuse swabs with Kimberly-Clark Kimtech Kimwipes. Did it only few times over 10+ years.

 

[shawn]

Jeez, reading all these Do’s and Dont’s
Makes me think
Why shoot digital ?

Question: I never hear Nikon, oly, Fuji camera users here on RFf
asking about cleaning dust off sensors
Are they less prone ?

My D700 got plenty of dust on it too. Fuji's have ultrasonic cleaners on the sensors so they tend to self clean a little better. Still have to use the rocketblower a few times on them though.

Shawn

 

[shawn]

.... or completely botching up the development (that`s my favourite ) or pay a lab to botch it up for you .

... or water marks....

Shawn

 

[Godfrey]

Jeez, reading all these Do’s and Dont’s
Makes me think
Why shoot digital ?

Question: I never hear Nikon, oly, Fuji camera users here on RFf
asking about cleaning dust off sensors
Are they less prone ?

Leica M cameras do not have an automated ultrasonic cleaner on the sensor, like nearly all mirrorless cameras do. Olympus was the first manufacturer to provide that on the E-system cameras in 2003, Panasonic followed suit when they released their first FourThirds camera in 2006 (2007?), Fuji, Sony, Leica (on the TL, CL, and SL lines), Pentax, and practically all the mirrorless cameras since include at least some form of automated sensor cleaning system. SLRs ... well, I'm not sure who beyond Olympus, Panasonic, and Pentax does sensor cleaning automation because I haven't followed them, but a quick check shows that Nikon includes the function now (don't know when they started) and Canon probably does too (didn't check).

Regardless, sometimes some bit of schmutz gets stuck on a sensor and you have to clean it off manually. The anxiety over it is misplaced: it's not difficult to do, and in most cases, a puff with a nice hand blower will remove it.

My personal experience: I've never had a sensor cleaned professionally, on any digital camera and I only very occasionally find it necessary to clean a sensor. I mean, at most, maybe I've had to clean a sensor once every year or three, and usually when I fit a pinhole onto a camera (the smaller the aperture you use, the more likely you'll see any miscellaneous dust that might be there). The cleaning I've had to do has never been beyond the "open the shutter for cleaning as required when you see some dust in a photo, take off lens, with the camera body pointing down, puff with a hand bulb upwards onto the sensor two or three times, re-check that the dust is gone" ...

The worst camera I ever had with respect to sensor dust was the M9: I had to clean it three-four times in the three-four years I had it. None of my Olympus or Panasonic cameras ever showed any dust, I don't recall any with the Leica SL and I cleaned the CL sensor once. I'm sure one or another of my other interchangeable lens digital cameras needed to be dusted too, but I can't remember which or when.

Some people just have high anxiety about everything to do with a digital camera, it seems. To me, they're just another little machine that you use and maintain as needed... Nothing mysterious or delicate (at least, any more so than any other fine camera). 🙂

G

 

[JohnWolf]

Well there is always
The possibility of scratches , dust on negs ...:bang:

I get a strange satisfaction from cloning out dust spots on film scans. On digital they annoy me. Go figure.

 

[Beemermark]

Jeez, reading all these Do’s and Dont’s
Makes me think
Why shoot digital ?

Question: I never hear Nikon, oly, Fuji camera users here on RFf
asking about cleaning dust off sensors
Are they less prone ?

I always thought dust on negatives happened in the dark room. Then when I got into digital I starting thinking dust on film happened in the camera. No longer have a darkroom but develop film in bathroom and scan. Don't have a a problem with dust on negatives. Utterly confused. Are digital sensors dust magnets? In all honestly the only digital camera I ever cleaned was my D750 - once.

 

[willie_901]

So when people tell you that the digital is cheaper: did you count in the camera sensor cleaning kit+swabs?

The in-camera sensor cleaning is gimmick. Where do you think the dust goes when the sensor "shakes it off" ?

Some cameras have adhesive areas that collect the debris.

But your point is well take, After many years the adhesive surfaces area will be completely covered with debris.

 

[Huss]

So when people tell you that the digital is cheaper: did you count in the camera sensor cleaning kit+swabs?

The in-camera sensor cleaning is gimmick. Where do you think the dust goes when the sensor "shakes it off" ?

Going through my records, last year I shot 163 rolls of colour film.
Dev cost was $6.60/roll
= $1075.80

For 4428 exposures 35mm
480 exposures 120

4908 shots total.
= 22 cents a shot dev cost only. Not including the cost of the film. Nor scanning which I did myself.

I love film. But if you actually shoot film, it gets expensive and it always has been expensive. And by shoot, I mean not putting a roll in a camera, spending a month to finish it etc.

A used Nikon D750 is now about $750. And is a superb camera. A 50mm AF lens can be $60-$120 used. So pretty much you can have unlimited shooting for the rest of the camera's life (should last a bunch of years) for hundreds of dollars less than what I pay for one year of film shooting.

Will I change my ways? Not likely but as big a film fan as I am, the economic reality is right there.

 

[willie_901]

There are two types of sensor debris.

Often dust and debris the is easily removed by using a properly designed brush. This is the easy job.

Sometimes dust and debris that solidifies on the sensor cover glass. Usually small oil drops from the shutter mechanism form on the sensor. These collect dust and debris. When the cold evaporates the debris adheres to the sensor cover glass. This is the difficult job. By the way, the M240 is not known as an oil spitter.

It's difficult these days to find a camera repair technician who will wet clan a sensor. But that's how I cleaned my D200/300/700 sensors. These were oil spitters.

Since I've used cameras with ultrasonic sensor cleaning, I have not had to visit a camera tech for cleanings.

 

[Ko.Fe.]

Going through my records, last year I shot 163 rolls of colour film.
Dev cost was $6.60/roll
= $1075.80

For 4428 exposures 35mm
480 exposures 120

4908 shots total.
= 22 cents a shot dev cost only. Not including the cost of the film. Nor scanning which I did myself.

I love film. But if you actually shoot film, it gets expensive and it always has been expensive. And by shoot, I mean not putting a roll in a camera, spending a month to finish it etc.

A used Nikon D750 is now about $750. And is a superb camera. A 50mm AF lens can be $60-$120 used. So pretty much you can have unlimited shooting for the rest of the camera's life (should last a bunch of years) for hundreds of dollars less than what I pay for one year of film shooting.

Will I change my ways? Not likely but as big a film fan as I am, the economic reality is right there.

I won't count lenses. They are same expense for film and digital.

My Canon 500D is from 2009. I took much more than 100K exposures with it. It still works. It was open box camera for 1100 CAD. Less than 100 CAD per year. Something like 70 USD per year for current exchange rate.

 

[arseniii]

I won't count lenses. They are same expense for film and digital.

My Canon 500D is from 2009. I took much more than 100K exposures with it. It still works. It was open box camera for 1100 CAD. Less than 100 CAD per year. Something like 70 USD per year for current exchange rate.

To add more: you will also need CaptureOne/Lightroom license, Color Calibrate Monitor, Modern PC, Storage Disks, Archival DVDs, Flash Cards, Batteries (at least one spare). I seriously doubt digital is cheaper, well unless you shoot like 5 rolls per day everyday.

Back to sensor cleaning: I'd rather wet clean my sensor then let the dust to be shaken off into the camera. If small debris keep getting into the shutter mech it will shorten the lifespan of the shutter. And you'll never know when it fails. This shutter are made of teflon coated plastic, thinner than a sheet of paper. They don't do titanium/metal shutters since a long time now, like they did in Nikon FM2 and the like.

 

[Bill Blackwell]

Going through my records, last year I shot 163 rolls of colour film.
Dev cost was $6.60/roll
= $1075.80.
...

I have my film processed and scanned (TIF files) to a disk and it costs me around $20 per roll (add the cost of the film to that)! If I only had my film processed, it would cost me ~$7.00 per roll, plus the cost of film (call it $15 per roll). I no longer have a film scanner (if you have one, add that to the cost of the camera); I find having my film scanned (with processing) is much more efficient.

Shots taken with my M10-P - or any digital camera for that matter - are much, much cleaner and the decompressed TIF files are larger with more detail (and processing costs me nothing) compared to film. If I happen to want a film look, I can do that in post-processing - but I can't do the reverse with film.

... does the sensor need to be cleaned? ...

I would say, as others have suggested, try a rocket blower and get yourself some sensor swabs (Google it). If you start with a clean sensor, you'll find if you keep one lens on your camera during an outing, you'll end up with much less, or no, sensor dust.

Your M240 has a sensor dust detector in its menu system - and it actually works pretty well. It won't work at all unless you use it properly, so you can't miss. Check it out too.

 

[jhthomasii]

I would say, as others have suggested, try a rocket blower and get yourself some sensor swabs (Google it). If you start with a clean sensor, you'll find if you keep one lens on your camera during an outing, you'll end up with much less, or no, sensor dust.

Your M240 has a sensor dust detector in its menu system - and it actually works pretty well. It won't work at all unless you use it properly, so you can't miss. Check it out too.

yeah i ran the dust detector and it showed a fair bit. i ordered a cleaning kit from amazon today. i always keep a lens on my cameras though so no worries there. i just got this one last week and finally got a chance to go shoot with it.

 

[Ko.Fe.]

To add more: you will also need CaptureOne/Lightroom license, Color Calibrate Monitor, Modern PC, Storage Disks, Archival DVDs, Flash Cards, Batteries (at least one spare). I seriously doubt digital is cheaper, well unless you shoot like 5 rolls per day everyday.


Back to sensor cleaning: I'd rather wet clean my sensor then let the dust to be shaken off into the camera. If small debris keep getting into the shutter mech it will shorten the lifespan of the shutter. And you'll never know when it fails. This shutter are made of teflon coated plastic, thinner than a sheet of paper. They don't do titanium/metal shutters since a long time now, like they did in Nikon FM2 and the like.

One more time 🙂
Our family EOS 500D was purchased in 2009. Never had wet clean. By now it has much more than 100K exposures taken with it. It works.

I have film EOS with sticky shutter blades due to deteriorated part. I cleaned it with paper by moving it between shutter blades. It works.

CaptureOne/Lightroom license

- just optional, Canon comes with its own, fine working software.

Color Calibrate Monitor

totally optional.

Modern PC

My PC is ten years old.

Storage Disks

hundred bucks per 2+ TB.

Archival DVDs

🙂, why not LTO-6 tape?

Flash Cards

twenty bucks or less.

Batteries (at least one spare).

Made in Japan battery is well under $100 and lasts longer than five years.

vs

Film:
Scan: Cheap, but decent flatbed Epson is around $150. Or digital camera rig 😀. Plus PC, plus software, plus almost everything you have mentioned. 😛
or/and
Darkroom: Nothing special 8x10 RC paper is $69 (USD) per 100 sheets at least. To me as real darkroom printer, not forum theoretic and not film advocate on the internet, DR paper risen more than double cost in recent years is killing factor to use b/w film. Just because of the out of mind cost of DR paper. For my inkjet I'm getting fine paper for twice if not three times less and price of inks isn't any different from price of color chemicals for film, paper.
Color darkroom prints? I'm not a maniac with spare lungs and time to kill.

 

[arseniii]

One more time 🙂
Our family EOS 500D was purchased in 2009. Never had wet clean. By now it has much more than 100K exposures taken with it. It works.

I have film EOS with sticky shutter blades due to deteriorated part. I cleaned it with paper by moving it between shutter blades. It works.

- just optional, Canon comes with its own, fine working software.
totally optional.
My PC is ten years old.
hundred bucks per 2+ TB.
🙂, why not LTO-6 tape?
twenty bucks or less.
Made in Japan battery is well under $100 and lasts longer than five years.

vs

Film:
Scan: Cheap, but decent flatbed Epson is around $150. Or digital camera rig 😀. Plus PC, plus software, plus almost everything you have mentioned. 😛
or/and
Darkroom: Nothing special 8x10 RC paper is $69 (USD) per 100 sheets at least. To me as real darkroom printer, not forum theoretic and not film advocate on the internet, DR paper risen more than double cost in recent years is killing factor to use b/w film. Just because of the out of mind cost of DR paper. For my inkjet I'm getting fine paper for twice if not three times less and price of inks isn't any different from price of color chemicals for film, paper.
Color darkroom prints? I'm not a maniac with spare lungs and time to kill.

Ohh don't even get me started on inkjet printing 🙂

My Epson printer is a little princess: some days she spits masterpieces and some days refuses to cooperate. The outcome is never knows with her.

 

[shawn]

To add more: you will also need CaptureOne/Lightroom license, Color Calibrate Monitor, Modern PC, Storage Disks, Archival DVDs, Flash Cards, Batteries (at least one spare). I seriously doubt digital is cheaper, well unless you shoot like 5 rolls per day everyday.

And if you have your film scanned you will need "CaptureOne/Lightroom license, Color Calibrate Monitor, Modern PC, Storage Disks, Archival DVDs" and if you do it yourself a scanner too. You just save on a spare battery ($20 for most cameras.. other than Leica a couple of rolls of film without processing) and memory card which is 20 or 30 bucks. A 100 pack of negative sleeves cost the same.

My F5 cost about $3k when I bought it new. I replaced it with a D1H for $1200 on closeout. A SRT101 was $240 in 1973 about $1400 in todays money. B&H has the D750 for $1496 or a D610 for $900 with a lens, grip and wireless adapter.

Shawn

 

[boojum]

Up at the top of this thread there was a caution against using gel sticks to clean the camera sensor. The gel stick manufacturer says that it is what Leica uses and a video of the factory shows an employee cleaning a sensor with the gel stick and explaining about the sticky paper where the dust is transferred after finishing the sensor cleaning. On that basis I would assume that gel sticks were the best way if that is how Leica does it.

Can anyone comment on this? I am confused.

 

[Doug]

I have used a stick with a sticky pad - not sure if it would be termed a gel stick or not. It worked great. I had some of pads left over that sat for a couple of years. Then I dug out the container and used another pad, which deposited sticky gunk on the sensor cover glass. Ugh. The camera went back to Leica USA for cleaning. So these sticky pads deteriorate over time.

 

[boojum]

I have used a stick with a sticky pad - not sure if it would be termed a gel stick or not. It worked great. I had some of pads left over that sat for a couple of years. Then I dug out the container and used another pad, which deposited sticky gunk on the sensor cover glass. Ugh. The camera went back to Leica USA for cleaning. So these sticky pads deteriorate over time.

Now I am really confused. I thought that the gel stick was for cleaning the sensor and the sticky pad was for cleaning the gel stick afterwards. You say you used the sticky pad to clean the sensor not the gel stick?

 

[Doug]

It was a plastic stick with a flat bottom, to which one fitted a sticky pad by peeling off one protective paper and pressing it onto the blat base, then one removes the protective paper from the business side of the sticky pad. It's a bit confusing which side of the sticky pad is which, because the stickiness is different on each surface. As I recall, the stronger adhesive goes onto the stick base and the less sticky side is for cleaning the sensor. I suspect we're talking about two different products... As I recall this one came in a rectangular metal container very much like BandAids do.