M246 or M10?

[Sonnar Brian]

I spoke with the Leica store in London for a trade in and to be honest the trade-in for the M9M is quite low, less than 2K.

That is pretty bad. You might want to run some "Want to Trade" ads here and on the Leica User Forum to see if you can do better.

 

[Sonnar Brian]

The outline of the hard edge makes me believe this is a conversion.

It is similar to the chimney that I showed.

Of course you could be using a post-processing algorithm to enhance edges just to fool me...

 

[Sonnar Brian]

In terms of "pure quality", a Monochrome sensor picks up 1 F-Stop of sensitivity, as it gets rid of the color filter in front of the sensor. It picks up 4x the resolution for red and blue objects, and twice the resolution for green objects. Subjective difference? It's just better, but if people are comfortable with desaturating the image from the color sensor, hard to say. If I were going to buy an M9 for professional B&W work, I'd spend the extra money on it for work. For home use, probably not.

Too funny, quoting myself from Jan 2010. Looks like I made a mistake. I bought the M9 and M Monochrom both, for home use. If there had been an IR version, would have bought six of them for work.

https://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=85186

More than two years before the M Monochrom came out, we had this discussion on RFF.

Okay- this is funny. I missed this post from Roger.

At photokina I specifically asked Stefan face-to-face about this. He was completely dismissive because of the cost of the chip. I said that I knew someone who believed it would be affordable and he assured me it would not.

Personally, I don't know enough to argue either way.

Cheers,

R.

I let Roger know that I called Kodak and discussed this with their engineers, Jan 2010...

Software is trivial as you skip the Bayer Interpolation. Cost of inventory and size of the market is the real issue. The advantages, picking up twice the sensitivity for the sensor and eliminating any chance of Color Aliasing.

And- after writing my own code to process DNG files directly, software is trivial.

 

[JohnWolf]

FWIW, after going back and forth with myself on these same M10/M246 options, I just ordered an M246. No doubt the M10 is an all around better camera, and the slimmer profile really draws me. But after reviewing the files of my long gone MM1 and considering how I worked with it, I decided I prefer an all-BW workflow without conversions.

I'm not sure you can compare the two cameras in any objective way because there are nearly infinite conversion recipes with a color camera. I'm sure both will produce stellar BW. But for me it comes down to an all-BW mindset and way of working.

John

 

[redefine]

I went for the M246 in the end. I found a MINT one in the Leica Store in London for such a great price. In the end, I thought my main usage is BW so I may as well go Mono.
My only temptation to get the M10 was the slimmer body.

It's a shame we are on heavy lockdown at the moment so I didn't had a chance to shoot much - but I definitely look forward to put it in action!

 

[Ko.Fe.]

Two of the images in the group below were taken with my M9M. The others were B&W conversions from DNG/TIF files shot from one of my "color" digital M cameras. They all underwent the same level of processing in post. Can you "subjectively" tell me which ones came from the M9M?

Sorry, I'm late. Can't tell the difference because some of them are so over-processed it could be just from the iPhone 🙂

 

[Ko.Fe.]

I went for the M246 in the end. I found a MINT one in the Leica Store in London for such a great price. In the end, I thought my main usage is BW so I may as well go Mono.
My only temptation to get the M10 was the slimmer body.

It's a shame we are on heavy lockdown at the moment so I didn't had a chance to shoot much - but I definitely look forward to put it in action!

Good move! Hopefully it will be more comfy to go out...

 

[Bill Blackwell]

Sorry, I'm late. Can't tell the difference because some of them are so over-processed it could be just from the iPhone 🙂

The only one that might look over-processed would be the last one of the couple; that one was film. The shot of the soccer kids was with an M8.

Sonnar Brian was correct in his analysis. The two lotus flower pics were the only ones in the group shot with a monochrom.

 

[Ko.Fe.]

The only one that might look over-processed would be the last one of the couple; that one was film. The shot of the soccer kids was with an M8.

Sonnar Brian was correct in his analysis. The two lotus flower pics were the only ones in the group shot with a monochrom.

Something went terribly wrong with film, processing or else. It looks just awful.
First two on the top looks natural. Starting from the forest it looks like processing turning in not natural to me. Sorry.
Look at the links in this thread. This is where BW is great. IMO.

As I mentioned many times, it is next to impossible for me to find decent bw from Monochrom. In terms of tonality and not over processing.

SB's photos in this thread looks like under exposed darkroom prints, BTW. I do it often and have to re-print. 🙂

 

[helen.HH]

I went with 246
no regrets...
cept sometimes I wonder would it be nice to have the choice of 'color'
coming from a person that shoots 99.9% b&W,hmmm





Grit and Mist by Helen Hill, on Flickr

 

[helen.HH]

246




passing thru by Helen Hill, on Flickr





electric crosses... YAY to EXPLORE, Thank You ! by Helen Hill, on Flickr

 

[Corran]

Sorry, I'm late. Can't tell the difference because some of them are so over-processed it could be just from the iPhone 🙂

Unusually I have to agree with kf. Well except the last one that indeed looks like a 80x120 pixel image from an office scanner sized up 500%. Why?

 

[airfrogusmc]

Late to the dance here and probably decisions have already been made. But here are some high ISO samples from the M 10 Mono
50,000 ISO

 

[airfrogusmc]

And M 10 M at 12,500



Same image cropped (12,500)

 

[Sonnar Brian]

Nikkor-PC 8.5cm F2, wide-open on the M Monochrom. Still going after 10 years.

ISO 5000.

 

[Michael Markey]

The quantitative data Dante Stella presented here: The Leica Monochrom typ 246 and filters shows the difference in colour response between the MM and 246 is tiny, and that the MM and 246 both have major problems with red filtration.

This is why Leica only makes yellow, orange and green filters for the Monochroms.

If you have an MM that works well, I’d keep it and put cash aside for the M10M in a couple of years. The 246 disappointed me, particularly in that the live view was hopeless, and that the better high ISO performance did not maintain the image tonality like the MM did.

Marty

Back on the board after many years absence and now using a 246 .Thinking of buying some filters and right there after only a few seconds on here I find some useful info re red filters. Thanks .

 

[Michael Markey]

Oh : the board required me to change my user name ... real name .... Michael Markey

 

[Sonnar Brian]

I've had the M Monochrom since 2012- routinely use R60 Red filters with it. The only issue: the Photocell for the meter is more sensitive to Red than is the CCD. I end up using +2/3 to +1 EV compensation with the Red filter. Do not use R72, the Photocell is sensitive in this region, but the BG55 and S8612 cover glass used on the M Monochrom kills more than 99% of the response.

 

[Godfrey]

With M10-M, I routinely use a medium Green filter. I feel it gives a lot more tonal values to work with for average scenes. For more contrast, I switch to an orange filter.

And the M10-M nets using up to ISO 50,000 with excellent results.

G