M3 - buy on ebay or pay more at a dealer?

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ssmc

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So for some reason I've been bitten by "the bug" to get an M3 (apologies in advance if this has been asked before but I couldn't work out how to search for a topic like this)

My question is this: would it make more sense to pay the premium for one from a dealer, which presumably would come with some kind of warranty, or take a punt on ebay and budget for a CLA? I live in Australia so sending it overseas for a CLA would add around $300 to the price (200 for the work and the rest for shipping each way). I'm looking for a cosmetically nice body rather than a "beater"

Any opinions on which would be the best way to go? Experiences either way?

I've been watching a few M3 auctions and there seems to be some very strange stuff going on (people bidding against themselves, getting into "bidding fights" with a week to go, etc.) so I wonder if the system is producing "realistic" prices or what's going on? On the other hand, nice cams from dealers are quite expensive and may still need a CLA... what to do?

Thanks
Scott
 
Well, no M3 will come with a warranty. It is 50+ years old. I'd buy from wherever you get the right price. CLAs aren't always necessary... even from ebay. Ask the right questions of the seller and you'll get a good one. The problem is that you are looking for a camera that is very hot right now... the hottest it's been in years. The Chinese want your camera! ;)
 
Prices on ebay for seemingly decent M3 range from @$700 to $2,000, with no rhyme or reason to the result. (I have been watching) I think ebay is a real crap shoot right now, and not someplace bargains are being found.

On the other hand Tamarkin had one listed for $800 or $900 about a month ago. I saw that camera in the shop and it was very nice. Not perfect, but a high quality user.

If I was serious about buying, and wanting to do it immediately, I think I would hunt the shops for some deals rather than get into the fights on ebay.
 
I think that you should budget for a CLA no matter where you are, and if the camera is fine then you will be pleasantly surprised. You should be able to find a user condition M3 for around $700 if you shop around for example there is one for $695 at igorcamera, alternatively you could email ken hansen or youxin ye and see if they have any in stock. I'm sure there are others but I have experienced dealings with these guys.

Also regarding a CLA, have you checked the prices within Australia, if you are going to be paying around $300 I think that there would something equivalent in that price range.
 
Green_Blue said:
I think that you should budget for a CLA no matter where you are, and if the camera is fine then you will be pleasantly surprised...
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Hi,

I'll second that. Leicas often belong to people who use them and love them. So you can get them in perfect condition just because the previous owner has looked after it. But you can also get bad 'uns and that's when the service work is needed. But given the age of them, it's going to be needed sooner or later so I'd look on it as a synchronisation problem. Meaning, if you're going to keep it and use it then you'll end up paying for a service and why not now rather than then when spares are dearer and harder to get?

When you see one on an auction site with just the opening price but two bids showing it means, perhaps, that the opening bidder came back and upped his maximum. Also when you see people fighting over one, do a search for the one they've overlooked due an hour or two later. You might just get it cheaply as few will bid on two identical items (because they don't want to end up with both... ).

Anyway have fun, few people regret buying a Leica.

Regards, David
 
If you can find one that's already been serviced (like some that sell here) your in good shape, as it seems sellers never get back all the costs for a CLA etc.

However I agree that a service should always be factored in. Even the lubricants fail after 40 to 50 years of light use.
 
Not every Leica M needs a CLA. If it works, it works. I think people are CLA crazy these days. If it isn't working correctly, then ok....get the CLA. However, it seems people send perfectly fine cameras for CLAs just for the hell of it and because it is the RFF thing to do.

:)
 
I purchased my first M3 after it had been serviced. I have no idea if my M2 or M4 have ever been serviced, but they work very well. I bought a beat up M3 last year that I had serviced because it was in bad shape. All 4 work without problem. Eventually I will get that M2 and M4 serviced, but they don't show any signs of needing service at the moment.
 
My personal experience (buying an M3 and having it shipped here to Oz) is that I kept my eye out on the auction site, and here, and elsewhere, until I found a seller who seemed fair dinkum and had the kind of camera I wanted (I wanted a DS which had seen recent and successful use by the seller). Anything that even looked like an "auction fight" I stayed well away from. It took some time, but patience paid off. (Though from all reports I got a much better deal than is available now because of an overall rise in M pricing.)

I figured a CLA probably wasn't needed as the camera had seen good recent use with no problems reported by a reputable seller who actually used the camera (and was very happy to show recent photos taken with the camera).

I was right, but the RF had been knocked out of alignment in shipping. That's something to keep in mind: the guy I bought from said the RF alignment was spot-on. And I believe him. Things get knocked about in transit and RF mechanisms can have that happen. I had it serviced (but not CLA'd: I asked if that was a good idea and the tech said, quite correctly, that it wasn't and not to mess with a perfectly good camera). Having to wait for the RF alignment was a little frustrating in that my camera was away for servicing for some weeks before I could use it. But the perfect focus (including my 75 Summilux, wide open) was worth it. And I don't have the tools, or the knowledge (nor probably the talent) to do that for myself. A simple (for him) RF alignment wasn't even expensive.

...Mike
 
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re: ebay. My one lucky experience was when I purchased a near-new mint condition M3. Seller had bad picks of the M3 where one shot looked like it had a big dent on the back. Seller had perfect feedback and assured me the camera was in newish condition. A little over $500 for it. That was 3 years ago. Recently I sent it to Youxin Ye because it did need a cla.

Be smart and ask lots of questions. See if they have a return policy if the camera doesn't match what they describe, and or what the photos show.

I'd also check Youxin Ye who sometimes has cameras for sale on ebay. Or Sherry Krauter who has M's for sale from her shop--I'd assume these would have a cla already.
 
Got mine from Dale Cameras in Hollywood, FL (he almost always has some) for $650. Worked beautifully. The covering was shot. Sent to Youxin Ye for CLA and new Vulcanite covering for $160. Now it is good for another 50 years.
 
Personally I'd always go to a dealer, unless I knew already knew the private vendor. A dealer has a reputation to uphold, after all.

Cheers,

R.
 
jsrockit said:
Not every Leica M needs a CLA. If it works, it works. I think people are CLA crazy these days. If it isn't working correctly, then ok....get the CLA. However, it seems people send perfectly fine cameras for CLAs just for the hell of it and because it is the RFF thing to do.

After 5 decades of use (or non-use) its not crazy to think you MIGHT need to lube or adjust the machine its just common sense.
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Tamarkin is a really good source. I purchased one of my M3s and an M4 through them. Small problem with M3 covering and Tamarkin fixed it at no charge. It was worth the extra money.

I also purchased an EBay M3 and it has been a good camera. Neither CLA, but both really smooth with clear and accurate viewfinders.
 
Buying from dealer does not mean the camera doesn't need CLA. I'd get one from ebay and send it to a good service man for CLA before use.
 
I would only buy from a dealer if the shop were local and I could examine the camera myself. Dealer prices are usually higher than from other sources, and the condition of the cameras are no more likely to be accurate than from other sellers. I have had experience with a couple of local camera shops who rate their used equipment a notch or two better than I would, and price them at a premium. I have had good luck negotiating lower prices from dealers a time or two.

I think the best place to buy used camera equipment is from classified ads on RFF or other forums, or from ebay.

I'd budget for a CLA unless the seller had recently sprung for one.
 
aperture64 said:
Not true. I thought the same way two weeks ago, but I recently bought an M6. A 1992 model. The camera 'felt' fine and all of the speeds sounded great. Meter accurate, etc. I took it to Sherry because she had to do some work to another camera. She looked at the M6, for my own peace of mind. She hooked it up to a device to measure the shutter speeds and NONE of them were accurate. She is now overhauling it.
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I think part of what he said was true, "not every Leica M needs a CLA". But "if it works, it works" might not be true (or at least not completely true)

I agree, shutter speeds could and likely are off if not CLA'd in a long time. No one can tell if 1/250 is accurate without someone testing it, or any other shutter speed for that matter.
 
aperture64 said:
Not true. I thought the same way two weeks ago, but I recently bought an M6. A 1992 model. The camera 'felt' fine and all of the speeds sounded great. Meter accurate, etc. I took it to Sherry because she had to do some work to another camera. She looked at the M6, for my own peace of mind. She hooked it up to a device to measure the shutter speeds and NONE of them were accurate. She is now overhauling it.
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I have a freshly Sherry CLAed M2 with goofy speeds. If you hook a brand new MP up to a tester you're also going to have off speeds. Leicas are the funkiest of cameras.
 
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