M3 questions

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minoltist7

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I'm considering to get M3 from ebay.
but since I never hadled and seen it in real life, some things are unclear for me

1. Single vs double stroke
does it mean that you need to advance lever twice (in case of double stroke)?
I think is'not very convenient, so I'd prefer single

2. Frameline selector
earlier models have automatic selection, latter - manual selector in addtion.
I'd get manual, to use some thread-mount lenses with non-marked adapter

How to determine that particular M3 has manual frameline selector,
and single stroke ? (by year of manufacturing, or S/N)
and is there are visible clues to identify what "generation" is it?

3. Film loading to M3
Maybe somebody have pics, how camera is loaded?
From what I seen on photos, it has strange loading mechanism (bottom is removed instead of traditional "hinged door").
I have a FED-5 which bottom needs to be removed too - but it detached together with rear "wall" of the camera box. In case of Leica it isn't.

4.Film rewinging. how it wokrs? just pull the thing up, and crank it, right?
does it have some folding handle for easier cranking, or not? (I can't see it from pics)

5. CLA
How long camera works between major service ?
Is it safe to buy a camera which was serviced 20 years ago? (it depends from usage , but think about "average amateur" who shots no more than 2 rolls per week )
 
I'm not an expert (though I'm sure some will be along shortly) and don't have an M3, but here's what little I know...

1. Single vs double stroke
does it mean that you need to advance lever twice (in case of double stroke)?
I think is'not very convenient, so I'd prefer single
Click to expand...
Yes indeed - the early ones were made double-stroke apparently for fear that the torque on the gears would be too much for single-stroke operation (a fear that turned out to be unfounded)

2. Frameline selector
earlier models have automatic selection, latter - manual selector in addtion.
I'd get manual, to use some thread-mount lenses with non-marked adapter
Click to expand...
The "manual selection" is really just a preview. You can't, for example, set it to 35mm frames and go around shooting - it's a sprung lever that has to be pushed in the appropriate direction and held like that in order to see alternative frames to the auto-selected one. So I think it's really only useful for thinking "I wonder what this scene would look like with a different lens" rather than for an actual manual selection. To find out if an M3 has viewfinder preview, as far as I know you just need to look at the front of it - it's the lever to the right of the lens mount as you look at it from the front.

Hope this helps,
 
Stephen Gandy's website has some very helpful information about the M3: http://cameraquest.com/mguide.htm#M3's

Alan is correct about questions 1 and 2. Film loading is actually pretty easy -- but you need to be sure the M3 you get comes with a film spool! Slip the end of the film onto the spool as far as it will go, and load the spool and the cartridge into the camera. There is a drawing inside the bottom of the camera that shows you what it should look like. Push the spool down into the camera as far as it will go, and line the film up with the sprockets (which is easily seen with the back door open).

Rewinding -- there is a small lever on the front of the camera, in front of the shutter button. Turn it down to the "R" marking, and then you can pull up the rewind knob and start rewinding.
 
I have owned a few M3s. Except for extremely rare Black Paint M3s, you should find a good user M3 for a price ranging from 500-600 US to 1200 US. This comes down to condition and the date of manufactor, which is seen by the serial no., as seen on CQ. If you want a M3 that is single stoke, you should look for a specimen made beyond 1959. However some earlier models were converted from DS. The DoF markers in the M3 VF seem to have appeared after 1959 as well. But the M3s with Serial Numbers 1 million or higher will cost you the most if they are in good user condition. As you buy a M3 built in 1964 to 1967, you buying one of the finest pieces of mechanical machinery!

I think you should look at expecting to CLA a user -- 2 roll/wk -- M3 about once every 5 to 10 years. If you buy a M3 without having been serviced in 20 yrs, count a CLA into your budget.

The M3 is a fantastic body for the 50 mm and higher focal lengths; the key thing to look at is the condition of the viewfinder: is it bright and contrasty, with NO haze?

good luck finding your M3. I recommend that you buy from someone on RFF rather shop at eBay. But that's just me....
 
I am a double-stroker! I love to double-Stroke! Brings water to my mouth every time I do it. That's why I love Leicas so much, I guess: The striking feeling!
 
I got my SS M3 from ebay. I may have been lucky, but it has had no problems. (knock on wood)
minoltist7 said:
1. Single vs double stroke
does it mean that you need to advance lever twice (in case of double stroke)?
I think is'not very convenient, so I'd prefer single
Click to expand...
This is entirely a preference issue. Some people like it, others don't. Double stroke models tend to go for slightly less, all other things being equal. BUT if you get a DS, and it breaks, it will come back repaired as a SS.

2. Frameline selector
earlier models have automatic selection, latter - manual selector in addtion.
I'd get manual, to use some thread-mount lenses with non-marked adapter
Click to expand...
The frame selection is automatic on all models. The early ones lacked the preview lever that you could use to bring up the other framelines without changing lenses.

How to determine that particular M3 has manual frameline selector,
and single stroke ? (by year of manufacturing, or S/N)
and is there are visible clues to identify what "generation" is it?
Click to expand...
If it has the preview lever, you'll be able to see it to the right of the lens, with the lens facing you. For changes based on Serial #, take a look at the comprehensive list at cameraquest.com

Film loading to M3
Maybe somebody have pics, how camera is loaded?
From what I seen on photos, it has strange loading mechanism (bottom is removed instead of traditional "hinged door")
Click to expand...
The M3, like all M's, has the hinged door. The difference in loading is that the takeup spool must be removed from the camera to reset the film counter.

4.Film rewinging. how it wokrs? just pull the thing up, and crank it, right?
does it have some folding handle for easier cranking, or not? (I can't see it from pics)
Click to expand...
The M3 does not have the folding film crank, but you can buy various aftermarket cranks (or the one from leica) that slip over the knob to make it easier to rewind. otherwise yes, you just pull it up and crank away. (doesn't take long once you get used to it.)

5. CLA
How long camera works between major service ?
Is it safe to buy a camera which was serviced 20 years ago? (it depends from usage , but think about "average amateur" who shots no more than 2 rolls per week )
Click to expand...
I disagree with the CLA every 5 years whether it needs it or not crowd. If they're working well, leicas don't need a CLA. HOWEVER, at the first sign of roughness or slowing they do. The longer they go without when they need one, the more damaging it can be. That said, My M3 was last serviced in 1992 (according to the wax seal) and it is still running smoothly 16 years later. I have put several hundred rolls through it in the last 4 years, with no ill effects.

Just remember, ebay can be hit or miss. If you want to minimize the risk, buy from somewhere else.
 
the double stroke is nicer! I've used it for a year and I can say it is very convenient! Cock once before shooting and once after shooting and that's it! Anyway on my M4 I always double stroke because I ofter hold the body with only one hand. Also, the DS M3 lever is silent while the M4 lever makes a rattle when returning to its position!

PS: the DS can save you from black frames if you want to use TA softreleases (they are nice!)
 
edodo said:
PS: the DS can save you from black frames if you want to use TA softreleases (they are nice!)
Click to expand...

Well, that is a good tip !!:) I never thought about this .... :eek:

I once had an very early M3 without frame view-lever, no problem at all. Different from all other M cameras, in the M3 the 50mm frame lines are permant visible and the 90 or 135 will be additionally visible when attaching one of these lenses. So if you use only 50mm there is no reason to have a frame view-lever. DS is very fine, I double-stroke my M4-P too, it is easier.
 
Consider also whether it's impotant to have the more modern geometric shutter speeds (1, 1/2, 1/4, 1/8, 1/15, 1/30 . . .) or the earlier speed sequence (1, 1/2, 1/5, 1/10, 1/25 . . .). This may be important if you get a Leicameter MR that has the later speeds. Check the CQ listings of serial numbers to see when the switch was made.

Main thing is to get a clear finder. If the finder needs rebuilding, consult Camera Repairs Luton in UK.
--Lindsay
 
The vaunted M3 DS huh? I am a certified gear whore, but for me, photography begins and ends with the M3 DS.

If there is something out there better, I don't even want to know about it.
 
I'm an M3 user, i got mine off of the bay for around $700. It is a 1 millon serial number single stroke. But when I got it the slow speeds were off and the viewfinder was kinda dusty and the vulcanite was peeling off. I wound up sending it to Sherry Krauter who did a full CLA for $300 something. I had it back in 3 weeks and then installed a black lizard skin kit from cameraleather.com.

So to be on the safe side if you want something you can use and use offten ( I used mine everyday in hot and humid Vietnam for 3 months last fall with absolutely no malfunctions.)

plan on spending about a grand. Oh and get at least one spare take up spool to pre-load another roll or two for the fastest reloading M ever, it is truly drop-in loading! Just drop in, tension the rewind, close her up, advance and trip the shutter twice and you're ready to go.
 
If you have a DS repaired by responsible people, they'll give you a choice about turning it into a SS. Don Goldberg is working on my very own M3 SS, and he asked me if I wanted the film advance gear repaired to stay as SS or DS.

It was cheaper to keep it DS, so that was my choice.

Now... I'm impatiently waiting for my camera. It's going to take a while...

Which, of course, takes me to the CLA issue. No matter what, have the camera CLAed, even before any sign of trouble. But most important and foremost: enjoy using it! :)
 
I don't mean to criticize you or anything, but since you're a beginner and have a lot of questions, (we've all been there) perhaps you should read up on Leicas and Leica Ms first, and I don't mean just the M3, before you make a purchase. Tell us what lens focal lengths you are likely going to use. The M3's widest set of framelines visible in the viewfinder is 50mm. Use any wider lens and you will need an accessory viewfinder mounted in the accessory shoe. If you need a meter also, (which you most likely will) then you'd need a double accessory shoe add-on so you would be able to mount both a viewfinder and a meter. This is just one point that you may not have thought of and may be important later on, after a purchase was made, and is why I'd advise you to get to know all the M cameras first before you buy one. My favorite M body is the M4-P, with framelines from 28 all the way to 135mm. That's because one day I'm a wide shooter, the next day a tele shooter.
 
Yeah George is right, you should take into account what focal lengths you like to use, I found out the hard way that my favorite is 35mm rather than 50mm, something the M3 doesn't do. Also for the money I wound up spending, I could've had a working M6 classic which even comes with a light meter (yay!) But deffinately look into other Ms before you make a decision. I wound up buying a cla'd leica CL from photovillage in NYC for about $499 wih a working meter and now I shoot the CL all the time.
 
George S. said:
Tell us what lens focal lengths you are likely going to use. The M3's widest set of framelines visible in the viewfinder is 50mm. Use any wider lens and you will need an accessory viewfinder mounted in the accessory shoe. If you need a meter also, (which you most likely will) then
Click to expand...

Actually, the main reason for M3 for me is to have 90mm setup (and 50mm occasionally)
For anything wider 35mm a have a Voightlander and it's ok with it.
also I have 35mm accessory VF (which can be mounted on M3 as well)

Thanks for advice on double shoe - now I see why it is important (if I'd want to use VF together with meter)
 
Just a note, to clarify. The two strokes aren't as long as the single stroke.
Click to expand...
Aha, I never knew that - thanks. I'll probably be looking for an M body myself sometime soon, and I'd discounted the M3 DS because I expected I'd keep forgetting the second stroke (which is what I did every time with the only DS camera I've ever had - an Olympus Pen-F). But that won't happen with a shorter stroke.
 
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