M4-2: when was the change?

sanmich

sanmich

Veteran
Local time
4:28 AM
Joined
Nov 3, 2006
Messages
3,420
View My Gallery
Dear Tom

would you know when, in terms of serial number, was the small light collimator removed from the M4-2, and Leica RF's started to flare?

Thanks!🙂
 
sanmich said:
Dear Tom

would you know when, in terms of serial number, was the small light collimator removed from the M4-2, and Leica RF's started to flare?

Thanks!🙂
Click to expand...

From buying two new M4-2s, one in 1978 and another in 1980, I would say around 1980.
 
Yes, that sounds plausible. The early M4-2 (up to about 148xxxx) was based on the basic M4 from the late 60's and early 70's. After that it become pre-M4P. They changed some of the viewfinder composition and also improved the shutter.
I never really had any problem with viewfinder flare in the M4-2/M4P's - some showed up in a couple of M6TTL's - but not enough to cause a problem for me.
 
Thanks, good to know...
I really had a hard time with an M6TTL 0.58 in situations where I was inside a room, and there is a strong lighting from a window. The patch was flaring very often to a degree it was unusable. It drove me crazy...
On the streets, no major problem, though...
 
sanmich said:
Thanks, good to know...
I really had a hard time with an M6TTL 0.58 in situations where I was inside a room, and there is a strong lighting from a window. The patch was flaring very often to a degree it was unusable. It drove me crazy...
On the streets, no major problem, though...
Click to expand...

My M4-2 only has a problem when the strong lighting comes from the left side. The patch flares out or ghosts out to the point I couldn't see the focus patch anymore. Yes, it is bothersome most of the time it happens, but since I know which angle it happens at I try to avoid focusing the shot from that angle. I somewhat focus on something in the same focal plane or guess focus prior to framing.
 
Gary E said:
My M4-2 only has a problem when the strong lighting comes from the left side. The patch flares out or ghosts out to the point I couldn't see the focus patch anymore. Yes, it is bothersome most of the time it happens, but since I know which angle it happens at I try to avoid focusing the shot from that angle. I somewhat focus on something in the same focal plane or guess focus prior to framing.
Click to expand...

Interesting thread, I was just wondering what serial number range your M4-2 was in? I have a 1507XXX late 1978 early 1979 camera with the old style (non red spot) lens release button and it shows no signs of flare at all. Even in bright sun from all directions the rangefinder remains consistent and perfectly useable...

I don't know if that helps at all but it might be interesting from a serial number point of view!

Regards to all...
 
Mine is from the second batch, also in the 1502XX range, and it does not flare. I know some people claim the M6 isn't that bad, flare wise, but my copy was horrible. It always seemed to flare at the worst possible time. Having a camera that performs well in challenging lighting conditions is important to me as I have found this to be the exact time you can make the best images. As a side note, I have found my M-4 2 to be about equal to the M6 as far as build quality is concerned.
 
Mine is 1503977 and no flare so far I've been able to detect. After alot of work done I really like M4-2, especially with the TomA Rapidwinder. I'm about to get a black Rapidgrip to finish it off.
 
I have a 1504xxx and I've gotten it to flare, but I recently found out that 'flare' and 'patch whiteout' are two different things...
 
dyao said:
I have a 1504xxx and I've gotten it to flare, but I recently found out that 'flare' and 'patch whiteout' are two different things...
Click to expand...

What do you mean?
I think both terms describe the big white/ no secondary image that you get in the RF patch under certain lighting conditions...
 
It would be interesting to hear from members with later cameras to see if they have experienced any flare, particularly cameras with the later "red dot" type lens release button as this could have been a change implemented at the same time perhaps?

Nockton48 I agree, an M4-2 and rapidwinder/leicavit combination is a sweet thing!



a%3E
 

Attachments

  • phone0139.jpg
    phone0139.jpg
    49.3 KB · Views: 0
Flat Twin said:
Interesting thread, I was just wondering what serial number range your M4-2 was in? I have a 1507XXX late 1978 early 1979 camera with the old style (non red spot) lens release button and it shows no signs of flare at all. Even in bright sun from all directions the rangefinder remains consistent and perfectly useable...

I don't know if that helps at all but it might be interesting from a serial number point of view!

Regards to all...
Click to expand...

My M4-2 s/n is in the 1525XXX series/range. From all the other posts, I gather it was either after 1510XXX or 1520XXX that the condenser was removed/changed. I am sure mine flares cause it's quite bothersome at times. Still I've lived with it this long, so it'll stay in my arsenal for some time longer.
 
Flat Twin said:
It would be interesting to hear from members with later cameras to see if they have experienced any flare, particularly cameras with the later "red dot" type lens release button as this could have been a change implemented at the same time perhaps?

Nockton48 I agree, an M4-2 and rapidwinder/leicavit combination is a sweet thing!



a%3E
Click to expand...

Here's Mine, don't have a 'lux, but I have this new 35mm F1.5 Canon 🙂
 

Attachments

  • DSC03481.jpg
    DSC03481.jpg
    75.5 KB · Views: 0
Flat Twin said:
It would be interesting to hear from members with later cameras to see if they have experienced any flare, particularly cameras with the later "red dot" type lens release button as this could have been a change implemented at the same time perhaps?

Nockton48 I agree, an M4-2 and rapidwinder/leicavit combination is a sweet thing!
Click to expand...

From owning both type of M4-2s, I always assumed that the red dot type lens release implementation happened around the time the change to the flare prone RF geometry introduction. But in real life camera production, I doubt it was as clear cut as that.
 
Most of the early M4-2's with the screw in the lens release had them changed, as they tended to fall out. I lost 4 lens releases on a single trip!!!! Involved a lot of helicopters and small bush-planes so the vibrations did it! Had to resort to using a small screwdriver to push down the lock when changing lenses. Didn't do the lock any good, according to Leica Canada when I gave it to them for service. They put in the newer lock and I later added LocTite to them - just in case.
I never really had a viewfinder problem with the early M4-2 (lots of shutter problems and aforementioned lens release and one advance came apart). However, these were cameras that were heavily used (10-20 rolls a day when on jobs).
I also suspect that if you are looking at early M4-2's today - those finders are getting on in age -+30 years and can have oxidized mirrors or just dirty rangefinders. Most mechanical problems would have been taken care of by now.
From about #1500 000 they were using what later became the M4P's finder and shutter crate/brake as well as a changed "drive" connection for the power-winder. If you look underneath, where the connection is, the older style connection had a small brass 'cup" that the steel drive rested in. On the M4P, the drive sits flush with the interior cover plate and no 'cup".
 
For the people, having RF patch white out issues, I use a small vinyl tape patch about 1/4 the size of the light intake window, placed in the middle of the window and slightly to the left (from the photographers position).

This will dim the bright lines, but it greatly improves the whiteout issue.
The RF patch goes with tape from completely white to half contrast, which makes it usable even in the worst conditions.
I use this on a late M6 classic (early 90s).
 
menos said:
For the people, having RF patch white out issues, I use a small vinyl tape patch about 1/4 the size of the light intake window, placed in the middle of the window and slightly to the left (from the photographers position).

This will dim the bright lines, but it greatly improves the whiteout issue.
The RF patch goes with tape from completely white to half contrast, which makes it usable even in the worst conditions.
I use this on a late M6 classic (early 90s).
Click to expand...

Is this vinyl tape translucent, opaque or solid? I've gotta try this out, but I don't want to be known as another Leica user that tapes up their cameras 😀
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom