M5 size and collapsible lenses

I did some measuring, and my collapsible Summicron sticks about 13mm past the lens flange. On my M5, the front edge of the slot where the metering arm hangs out when no lens is attached, is 15 or 16mm from the camera's lens flange. It looks to me physically that the Sumicron can be collapsed safely. It collapses to a much lesser degree than other Leica collapsible lenses. Did Leica just lump all collapsible lenses together to avoid confusion?
 
Didn't Sherry tell you not to collapse that thing? And in telling you that didn't she warn you what an expensive repair a meter arm is? I'm not telling you not to try. but I wouldn't try with my M5.
 
FrankS said:
I did some measuring, and my collapsible Summicron sticks about 13mm past the lens flange. On my M5, the front edge of the slot where the metering arm hangs out when no lens is attached, is 15 or 16mm from the camera's lens flange. It looks to me physically that the Sumicron can be collapsed safely. It collapses to a much lesser degree than other Leica collapsible lenses. Did Leica just lump all collapsible lenses together to avoid confusion?
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Glad you double-checked, Frank. I just checked my collapsible Cron and confirmed that in its collapsed state it does extend rearward a bit past the mount itself (didn't bother to measure it, but I assume it is the same as Frank's measurement). So, my recollection was faulty and as I said, I'm glad you double-checked Frank and I hope no one else assumed my post further up in this thread was correct and simply stuck their collapsible Cron in their M5 or CL. Me, I wouldn't risk it now that we've confirmed that the collapsible Cron will extend into the body of the camera.

_Randy
 
vrgard said:
Me, I wouldn't risk it now that we've confirmed that the collapsible Cron will extend into the body of the camera.
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A lot of lenses will extend into the body of the camera. That's the whole point of rangefinder lenses. My 21 Skopar extends some 10mm into the body of the camera too, and it works fine on the M5. The question is really how far it extends, and I guess personally I'd just measure things myself, with the lens at infinity and collapsed, and then try out if it fits the M5. A new meter arm may be expensive, but if it fits, it fits.

The critical piece is the "hook" on the left edge of the metering stalk which protrudes in the direction of the lens mount. Even if the slot for the arm is quite far at the back of the camera body, this hook protrudes another two or three millimeters.

The dangerous thing about collapsible lenses is not mounting them in collapsed state, but collapsing them with the shutter wound. If the lens is collapsed before the shutter is wound, the metering stalk simply won't come up, as it's only driven up by a spring. You can easily test that with a LTM-M adapter ring: mount the ring, fire the shutter, wind (the arm will come up), fire the shutter, carefully hold your finger where the arm comes up, and wind on - nothing serious will happen to the arm. It's only dangerous when the lens is mounted already, the shutter is wound (so that the arm is in the metering position) and you collapse the lens against the extended arm. So another way to try should be to fire the shutter without winding on (so that the arm is down), mount the lens in extended state, collapse the lens, wind the shutter so that the stalk comes up (either it does come up, or it is held down by the lens), and then to see if you get a meter reading against a light source through the collapsed lens - if you get a reading, the metering stalk has come up normally. I tried that with an Industar-22 to see where I have to put O-rings on the barrel. Try this at your own risk, of course.

Philipp
 
Put the camera on B with open back, put the Summicron on it and check
visually. Don't bother with Elmar and Summitar.

Roland.
 
ferider said:
Put the camera on B with open back, put the Summicron on it and check visually.
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The problem with that is that the metering stalk is obviously down when the shutter is open, and you can't judge by the slot in the bottom either because the metering stalk isn't completely flat.

Philipp
 
The day I found a 28mm M-Hexanon lens in a local I shop I didn't have an M5 with me nor did the shop have the M5 I had looked at several months earlier. The lens appeared to extend quite far inside the camera body. Certainly farther than any of my lenses between 35mm and 135mm. I returned the next day with Bigfoot. I mounted the lens. I very slowly cocked the shutter. Nothing clashed. Took a picture. Took another picture. Bought the lens. It spends a lot of time on either Bigfoot or Bubba.

At home I measured the distance from the mounting flange to the end of the lens. The part inside the body. It extends 12mm inside the M5. The meter arm and lens are fine together. Is there another silly mm left for Frank's Summicron? Maybe.

Good luck, Frank! If the early collapsible Summicron works on an M5 be sure and let us know.
 
Don G. (DAG) responded to my query as well. He said that he just finished mounting his col. Summicron on his M5 with no problem. He mentioned the tab on the meter arm, but said that it cleared the collapsed lens by 2 mm.

:)
 
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I need to hear someone else with first hand experience say that this works fine before I'll try it! :) I just don't have the $ for an unnecesary expensive repair. (Spent $3000 on a car repair last week!)
 
FrankS said:
I need to hear someone else with first hand experience say that this works fine before I'll try it! :) I just don't have the $ for an unnecesary expensive repair. (Spent $3000 on a car repair last week!)
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Send camera and lens over, and I'll try it for you :)

Seriously, though, on the CL that I had it worked.

Roland.
 
I think we have adequate evidence that that the collapsible Summicron won't damage the M5 metering stalk. I have made similar measurements and reached the same conclusion. Now, how about the Elmar-M? I don't have one to measure, and would like to know if it's safe to collapse on the M5.

Anyone?
 
Rob-F said:
I think we have adequate evidence that that the collapsible Summicron won't damage the M5 metering stalk. I have made similar measurements and reached the same conclusion. Now, how about the Elmar-M? I don't have one to measure, and would like to know if it's safe to collapse on the M5.

Anyone?
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It is not safe to collapse the Elmar-M into the M5, but you can stick some tape on the lens to prevent that.

Erik.
 
BLKRCAT said:
would it not be safe if the camera wasn't cocked? The metering arm is in the down position when the camera isn't cocked.
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I think that RXMD's post, #26, above is in agreement. Apparently it is OK for the stalk to contact the side of the lens as it is trying to rise; having the lens crash into it from the front would be a different matter. Still, I wouldn't use any lens on the M5 that I didn't know was fail-safe. Murphy's law, you know.
 
Erik van Straten said:
You can put some rubber sealing rings around the tube of the Elmar-M. Then an unsafe lens is turned into a safe one.

Erik.
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On another thread there was a suggestion to slit a film can and put it around the tube. I seem to recall they had a photo of it, and it looked pretty good!
 
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