M6 Newby problems -- help, please

[pagpow]

Arrgh --

new to me M6.

two problems which may have to do w. inexperience (w. M6, not all M's)

1) The detents on the shutter speed dial all seem soft (light, easily dislodged compared to M3) to me, but hold, with the exception of 125 and 60. Releasing the shutter at 125 several times has the shutter speed dial creep progressively towards 60. Doing same with 60, the dial jumps to the flash synch speed, and stays there. Known problem? simple fix?

2) meter -- I meter an area with my spot meter. It shows 1.4 at 60 @1600. I mount a 1.4 lens, M6 meter lights both arrows. Good. I mount a 3.5 lens, and go to the equivalent exposure of f4 at 8 and nothing lights. Is this simply from being outside the coupling range of the meter? in other situations, I release the shutter while no lights are lit and I get a millisecond flash of the LED as the shutter actuates. None of the flasshing that the IB calls for. Operator error?

 

[Benjamin Marks]

I have had M6's since the mid 1990's. Neither one of the behaviors you have identified is normal for this camera.

1) shutter speed dial should have clear, positive detents with no creep, regardless of shutter speed. I don't have my camera in front of me, but it is worth checking the "edge" to see whether there is a retaining screw. If there is, tighten it, when the shutter is in the correct position. Otherwise -- off to a repair person.

2) Also not normal. Your meter should function whether or not a lens is mounted, whether or not your lens cap is on, etc. If it does not, the camera could be a dead battery (simple to check), or a bad meter IC board (not so simple). Change the batteries and if that doesn't work it's time to find a competent repair-person.

You will probably get this advice from others, but I'd take the issue up with the seller and get them to fund a fix. Although the camera will function without a meter and it sounds like you are competent as far as exposure measurement goes fixing these problems could be on the order of hundreds of dollars.

Ben

 

[maajka]

I tried something similar with my M6 meter. At 1600 and f2 + 30 both arrows show up, at f4 + 8 - nothing.

Can somebody test this also?
I have a classic M6 Wetzlar.

 

[palec]

2) It's normal for M6 series made in first years. Mine behaves the same as well. AFAIK later cameras had more sensitive meter (one or two stops).

 

[pagpow]

Thanks for the quick replies.

1) Ben -- re shutter speed dial creep. If I read you right, there is, indeed, a retaining screw on the shutter speed dial, inboard of the B setting. It sits below the surface of the shutter speed dial (ie countersunk). I will double check tightness with a screw driver but it is not loose to the touch. More important, the creep would likely occur at all speeds if the dial retaining screw were the problem; it does not -- only at 60 and 125.

2) Ben, maajka, palec -- re meter. I mounted another lens, 50mm Summi, in brighter light. I note that nothing seems to light up when I am five stops away from correct meter exposure. Three stops off, and one arrow lights, stays lit until correct exposure when both arrows light. (This is a different behavior from one indicated in IB)

Is it possible that we are dealing with different models as suggested w. different behavior of some models from the IB available online? one possibility is an interaction between meter sensitivity, programming of LED behavior, and model changes.

The resolution on the online IB makes it impossible for me to read the meter sensitivity table.

3) Finally, am I correct that shooting when the speed dial has crept off one of the finite values will invalidate the meter but will not, repeat, NOT harm the shutter?

Thanks all.

 

[JNewell]

You cannot hurt the shutter by setting an intermediate speed. Whether you actually get an intermediate speed with any degree of accuracy is another question (answer: you won't).

The early M6es had a metering circuit in which both LEDs went dark if the exposure set was outside the range of the meter's sensitivity. Based on your first post, it is completely possible that this is what you are seeing (or, not seeing). A great many of those cameras have had their meter circuits fail and they were replaced with the later version that blinks the LEDs when out of range.

 

[Benjamin Marks]

I hadn't known about the early M6's, so it just goes to show you that you can have years of experience with these cameras and still have stuff you don't know. In my camera, one of the diodes died suddenly. It sounded like your meter had no response when the correct shutter speed/aperture combination had been selected. There is, of course, a range of correct combination of shutter speeds and apertures and your camera should accurately respond to all of them.

Ben

 

[pagpow]

Thanks again, JNewell and Ben. I've been spending the day metering, as you might imagine, and coming to the conclusion that things are more or less working -- I'll try tonight again to see if I was seeing something else or was simply out of range and I'll try to get a legible copy of the film speed, aperture, shutter speed table I cannot read.

Delighted to hear harm unlikely to come to the shutter from drifting off discrete shutter speeds. Still puzzled by the fact that it happens with two speeds only -- and, of course, I know not what speeds I might be getting as the dial drifts between 125 and 60, but that I can probably check easily with a shutter tester.

 

[JNewell]

Not "unlikely," but "can't." However, there is a detent for 1/50th between those two (it's the fastest flash sync speed for X) so you should expect discontinuities/irregularities/anomalies in that range.

You don't need to tweak the exposure to that extent anyway. If you must do so, use the aperture ring! 😉

Delighted to hear harm unlikely to come to the shutter from drifting off discrete shutter speeds. Still puzzled by the fact that it happens with two speeds only -- and, of course, I know not what speeds I might be getting as the dial drifts between 125 and 60, but that I can probably check easily with a shutter tester.

 

[35mmdelux]

"Delighted to hear harm unlikely to come to the shutter from drifting off discrete shutter speeds. Still puzzled by the fact that it happens with two speeds only -- "

Id have it cleaned and fixed. I've owned many Leicas and never the speed dial problem. I like my gear in top working order.

 

[pagpow]

Thanks again for certainty of harmlessness, JNewll.

And yes, when the shutter dial drifts from 60, it locks into the flash synch 50. It is only from 125 that the dial drifts towards 60 progressively, but does not lock in/on anything.

Interesting, no?

 

[35mmdelux]

Thanks again for certainty of harmlessness, JNewll.

And yes, when the shutter dial drifts from 60, it locks into the flash synch 50. It is only from 125 that the dial drifts towards 60 progressively, but does not lock in/on anything.

Interesting, no?

Interesting? Not really. It simply needs a fix so to speak.

 

[pagpow]

possible the shutter speed dial is set up with spring-loaded bearings and one or more is missing? there was some discussion of a CLA.

 

[BobPS]

Arrgh --

new to me M6.
1) The detents on the shutter speed dial all seem soft (light, easily dislodged compared to M3) to me, but hold, with the exception of 125 and 60. Releasing the shutter at 125 several times has the shutter speed dial creep progressively towards 60. Doing same with 60, the dial jumps to the flash synch speed, and stays there. Known problem? simple fix?

My Leitz M6 acts the same. I never really realized it until several months ago when I exercised my M6 without film. From 125, the shutter dial creeps slowly toward 60, but it doesn't really reach 60. I can't remember if it creeps at 60.

BTW the camera was CLA'd (and equiped with MP finder) at Leica at the end of 2007 by the previous owner. This creeping shutter speed dial, worried me for a while, but then I forgot about it and do not notice it any more. I mean, when I'm shooting I don't often look at the shutter dial to see if it creeps or not 😀

Anyway, up to this moment, I don't have a problem with this. The only problem I had was setting the speed right at sync speed (1/50) when I use flash. It is too close to 1/60, and I often accidentally set the speed at 1/60 and got that black curtain on the images. That's why when I shoot with flash, I set the speed at 30 or slower, never at sync speed.

Bob

 

[pagpow]

Thanks, guys --

It looks like both problems are known and not a problem?

see this for early M6 meter function:

http://photo.net/leica-rangefinders-forum/00Bg2P

and BobPS takes care of the drifting SS dial. Passing strange.

 

[JNewell]

Thanks again for certainty of harmlessness, JNewll.

And yes, when the shutter dial drifts from 60, it locks into the flash synch 50. It is only from 125 that the dial drifts towards 60 progressively, but does not lock in/on anything.

Interesting, no?

I missed the "drifting." That sounds like the detent is not working correctly. It should click firmly into place at 30, 50, 60 and 125 (and all other marked speeds).

 

[chrishayton]

Right as far as the shutter speed dial goes its a very easy fix. Unscrew the counter sunk screw next to 'B' and take off the dial,
Now tighten the screw on top with a flat head screw,(there maybe a thin disc of metal that covers the screw so make sure you dont lose this.) gently till it becomes slightly tight but not too much, now reassemble and its fixed, if its a bit too tight to turn back off the flat head screw a touch.

 

[pagpow]

Thanks again, JNewell, and chrishayton. Very comforting. I'll have a sip or two of liquid courage and give it a try.