ROOOO
Established
I'm thinking about a film M body and wanted to see how people compare the longevity of the M6 and M7. I've heard several people distrust the electronics in the M7. But I feel like I've also seen several M6s for sale with nonfunctioning meters. The M6 I would get would likely be at least 10 years older than the M7 I would get. Anyhow, in terms of longevity, what would you recommend? If I'm going to end up with a camera without a functioning meter, I would prefer to just get an M3. But of course, I think a built-in meter is necessary for me right now, and I like but don't need aperture priority.
Personal experiences with and general perceptions of these cameras are both welcome. Thanks!
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http://www.LivedCaptured.com
Personal experiences with and general perceptions of these cameras are both welcome. Thanks!
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http://www.LivedCaptured.com
anu L ogy
Well-known
Im not positive on this - so someone please correct me if I am wrong. With the M6, isnt the shutter controlled mechanically, whereas the M7 is electronically?
Juan Valdenebro
Truth is beauty
It's not just the meter: any camera with more electronics, and with an electronic shutter, has a lot more options for problems compared to a mechanical shutter camera: this is a general rule for any brand...
But being Leicas, in case of damage you could get any of them serviced anytime in coming years or decades... So if you prefer AutoExposure, get the M7 without worries... It's also the only AE M that can be used without batteries... (At 1/60 and 1/125 only, and without meter, but it's wonderful!)
Cheers,
Juan
But being Leicas, in case of damage you could get any of them serviced anytime in coming years or decades... So if you prefer AutoExposure, get the M7 without worries... It's also the only AE M that can be used without batteries... (At 1/60 and 1/125 only, and without meter, but it's wonderful!)
Cheers,
Juan
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Juan Valdenebro
Truth is beauty
Yes, the M6 needs batteries just for using the meter...
The M7 needs batteries for the meter and for shutter speeds different from 1/60 and 1/125...
Cheers,
Juan
maddoc
... likes film again.
Both cameras are quite reliable but there is always a chance that something can break like with all other technical products.
The early M6 were prone for failure of the meter electronics and exchange of that part is not cheap, cameras with a SN > 2.000.000 have the newer electronic already installed. (You can see the difference of the electronic when switching the meter on with a lens cap on, having a camera with the older electronic the left LED will immediately go off and with the newer electronic it will blink very fast)
The M6TTL has an improved electronic and a slightly improved VF (better coatings).
The early M7 have the M6TTL type VF and mechanical DX reader, the latter can lead to problems (but will be exchanged by Leica free of charge when the camera is in for service). Newer M7 have an optical DX reader and the MP-type VF installed.
I had three different M6 Leica, two classic and one M6TTL and no problem at all whereas my M7 had to be serviced twice ... Nevertheless, I prefer the M7 over an M6 every day for the convenience of AE and the slightly better (contrast) VF.
The early M6 were prone for failure of the meter electronics and exchange of that part is not cheap, cameras with a SN > 2.000.000 have the newer electronic already installed. (You can see the difference of the electronic when switching the meter on with a lens cap on, having a camera with the older electronic the left LED will immediately go off and with the newer electronic it will blink very fast)
The M6TTL has an improved electronic and a slightly improved VF (better coatings).
The early M7 have the M6TTL type VF and mechanical DX reader, the latter can lead to problems (but will be exchanged by Leica free of charge when the camera is in for service). Newer M7 have an optical DX reader and the MP-type VF installed.
I had three different M6 Leica, two classic and one M6TTL and no problem at all whereas my M7 had to be serviced twice ... Nevertheless, I prefer the M7 over an M6 every day for the convenience of AE and the slightly better (contrast) VF.
ROOOO
Established
Thanks for the responses so far. I know about the difference in the shutters, but I wasn't sure which would be better in terms of longevity, not needing to be serviced, etc. Would the mechanical shutter of the M6 become less accurate before the electronic shutter of the M7 failed?
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Juan Valdenebro
Truth is beauty
No. And none of them should be considered as the one that could fail first.
Cheers,
Juan.
Cheers,
Juan.
lic4
Well-known
I went back to the M6 after owning an M7 because I felt better having a mechanical camera. When the batteries in my M7 went out, and I couldn't buy a new set of batteries for a few days, it was limiting to have only two shutter speeds. Although I could carry extra batteries everywhere, I often forget my own keys or cell phone, so I'm as unreliable as the camera battery.
The M6 shutter might drift in its speed sooner than an M7 shutter; this is just based on the nature of mechanical objects compared to electronic ones. However, if you take a well-made mechanical watch, it gives you little need for worry in its precision; I think Leica cameras are built with a similar, rugged precision.
My unscientific guess is that the M6 is better for long term longevity than the M7 but could need adjustment sooner in the short term. But as I was saying, they are all very reliable.
The M6 shutter might drift in its speed sooner than an M7 shutter; this is just based on the nature of mechanical objects compared to electronic ones. However, if you take a well-made mechanical watch, it gives you little need for worry in its precision; I think Leica cameras are built with a similar, rugged precision.
My unscientific guess is that the M6 is better for long term longevity than the M7 but could need adjustment sooner in the short term. But as I was saying, they are all very reliable.
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mervynyan
Mervyn Yan
Get both, you need 2 bodies.
Juan Valdenebro
Truth is beauty
Or an M2 for sun (no need to meter) and an M7 for the rest...
Cheers,
Juan
Cheers,
Juan
35mmdelux
Veni, vidi, vici
M7 is diff than the others since it has AE as you know. The diff between a standard drive car vs. automatic. The M7 automatically adjusts the shutter speed - not a biggy today.
maddoc
... likes film again.
The mechanical controlled cloth shutter of the M Leica are never 100 % accurate, especially the fast shutter speeds. Variations of 20% are common but most is covered by the latitude of the film and / or user error (metering the scene).
The batteries in my M7 last for about 80 rolls (135-36) and the required two spare batteries are small. It also possible to use four SR44 (or LR44) batteries with this camera, these are maybe the most common battery types worldwide.
The M7 in AE mode can set shutter speeds very fine steps and has a longest automatic exposure of 32s, very handy at night with ISO400 film and f/8.0.
The batteries in my M7 last for about 80 rolls (135-36) and the required two spare batteries are small. It also possible to use four SR44 (or LR44) batteries with this camera, these are maybe the most common battery types worldwide.
The M7 in AE mode can set shutter speeds very fine steps and has a longest automatic exposure of 32s, very handy at night with ISO400 film and f/8.0.
35mmdelux
Veni, vidi, vici
OP stated: "The M6 I would get would likely be at least 10 years older than the M7 I would get."
If I could get an M7 10 yrs newer than an M6, I'd get the M7 without giving it a 2nd thought.
If I could get an M7 10 yrs newer than an M6, I'd get the M7 without giving it a 2nd thought.
ROOOO
Established
Gabor, I didn't realize there was that much error. That's good to know, as I like to shoot wide open and use the faster speeds. I do find the AE on the M7 to be quite accurate for most of my needs, and it's easy to adjust when it's not. Therefore, I'm leaning towards the M7.
However, I'm also, way in the back of my mind, considering an M3 and a handheld meter.
However, I'm also, way in the back of my mind, considering an M3 and a handheld meter.
maddoc
... likes film again.
E. Puts made an comparison of the actual shutter speeds between his M6 and the M7 when the M7 came out and has the results posted somewhere on his web-site. Actually, I find the AE very handy when shooting slide film where sloppy metering is a no go.
For the "all-mechanical-no-meter" type of photography, I much prefer my M4-P over all the other (older) Leicas. It works reliable and well.
For the "all-mechanical-no-meter" type of photography, I much prefer my M4-P over all the other (older) Leicas. It works reliable and well.
Juan Valdenebro
Truth is beauty
A variation of 20% is nothing to care about even with slide film: it's only a fifth of a stop... Even metering, depending on the metered area, can be A LOT less accurate than that...
Get the M7: you want it... Late M6's are great...
Cheers,
Juan
maddoc
... likes film again.
Hm ... 20% error (to long) is 1/833s, more close to 1/750s or 1/2 stop ? No ?
A variation of 20% is nothing to care about even with slide film: it's only a fifth of a stop... Even metering, depending on the metered area, can be A LOT less accurate than that...
Get the M7: you want it... Late M6's are great...
Cheers,
Juan
Juan Valdenebro
Truth is beauty
If instead of 1 second, the shutter closes after 1.2 seconds, it's not too much in terms of exposure... Is it? Metering -both in manual and AE- is less accurate than that most of the times... Isn't it?
Cheers,
Juan
Cheers,
Juan
bennyng
Benny Ng
I have both M6 and M7 amongst my gear. I prefer the M7 to the M6 for the auto exposure. If I don't use it, I can always switch to manual mode, just like the M6. Two other things I really like about the M7 is the fact that it is more quiet when using slow shutter speeds (compared to M6) as well as the pressence of a shutter release lock.
Cheers,
Cheers,
ROOOO
Established
For context, I don't ever expect to use anything under 1/5 second shutter speed, and that's pushing it.
Thanks again for all the replies. This forum is great, and you've given me a number of things to consider. It sounds like, if I went the M6 route, that I should go with a later model M6, which would probably be priced closer to a used M7.
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http://www.LivedCaptured.com
Thanks again for all the replies. This forum is great, and you've given me a number of things to consider. It sounds like, if I went the M6 route, that I should go with a later model M6, which would probably be priced closer to a used M7.
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http://www.LivedCaptured.com