sepiareverb
genius and moron
As you said Roger- we're not changing any minds here. Each is the right tool for the right reasons, within reason. For macro I'll stick with an F4S every time.
tomasis
Well-known
accurate shutter or not. you dont need M7 if you use Trix but if you're using Velvia slide film so M7 might to be better 
MCTuomey
Veteran
an M7 can be used with/without AE with/without exposure compensation dialed in or via exposure lock. very flexible.
if you don't want or need an in-camera meter at all, well, you can save a lot of money for film and glass by opting for a meterless M.
eugene's right: whatever you use, it's more mule than not.
if you don't want or need an in-camera meter at all, well, you can save a lot of money for film and glass by opting for a meterless M.
eugene's right: whatever you use, it's more mule than not.
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maddoc
... likes film again.
Roger, about the critical light conditions you are absolutely right. What I meant is AE has advantages under quickly changing light conditions, e.g. when shooting in the street. If the scenery is to contrasty or has has some strong back-lights, compensation is necessary for sure.Roger Hicks said:
About the reliability of the shutter, the pure mechanical shutter will slowly but gradually changing its speeds due to some wearing of the brakes. The electronically controlled shutter has magnets which can't wear. (But of course fail but so can the mechanically controlled shutter). Additionally, shutter-speeds with the M7 should be within 10% tolerance up to 1/1000s, whereas the mechanical contolled shutter is often up to 30% to slow at 1/1000s and the other speeds also can be off up to 14%.
35mmdelux
Veni, vidi, vici
I have the M6, M7, MP. While they are all fabulous cameras, the M7 sees the least use. Dunno why; perhaps its because I was weened on the M4-P that I prefer the MP and M6.
My working kit M6, MP, and Hasselblad 501CM fit nicely into a Lowepro Mini backpack. Rock n' roll.
My working kit M6, MP, and Hasselblad 501CM fit nicely into a Lowepro Mini backpack. Rock n' roll.
maddoc
... likes film again.
The M4-P is for sure a great camera, my "work-horse". Together with the M3 that I have, a good kit. The M6 and MP didn't make it for me since I have to bring the camera to my eye for both, focussing and exposure, which is sometimes impossible. Hand-held metering (with pre-setting of the exposure) is somehow faster for me and having AE would be a nice add-on.35mmdelux said:
BennyC
Member
Your shooting style matters. If you're feeling lazy, take the M7.
If you're really fast (like old time war photographers) then take the MP. Any metered M will have a stickybutton. The M7 has more of one like the M8.
Either way, they are both great Ms.
Just don't panic when you've released the shutter with the body cap on with the shutter on AE. It's an auto 25secs exposure, wait for it. DO NOT RECRANK!
If you're really fast (like old time war photographers) then take the MP. Any metered M will have a stickybutton. The M7 has more of one like the M8.
Either way, they are both great Ms.
Just don't panic when you've released the shutter with the body cap on with the shutter on AE. It's an auto 25secs exposure, wait for it. DO NOT RECRANK!
John Rountree
Nothing is what I want
BennyC said:
That is a stupid statement. If you're lazy, use any camera. If you really want an image that has worth, you should draw it. Just ask HCB!
LeicaTom
Watch that step!
ERV said:My vote is for two M6's over either of them.
My two M6's are working mules, I just keep them happy and they plow away.
Now isn't that what a Leica should be?
Yes!
I second that emotion
Two M6`s and your all set for action!
Tom
sepiareverb
genius and moron
ErikFive said:I wish Magus was here
I don't think he does.
gberger
Member
Stoneax wrote:
"
God, I'd love to meet you but I'm in the other corner of the continent (Vancouver Is.). I would love to hear more of your stories from back when and see some shots from your past. And I thought mine from the '60's were historic! Can you post any of yours?
I am encouraged that I might have another quarter century playing with these great machines as long as I can find the film. I'll bet I could learn a lot from you.
Cheers"
Hi , Stoneax -
Nitty-gritty first: I'm on a third-rate dial-up connection, and I never bought a scanner, as its use would be, at most, problematical. Further, my slides go into the regular 50-slide Leica trays for projection with our P2002, using a SuperColorplan, on a Daylte matte screen. I have a color-corrected light box that will hold ~ 50 slides, and I use a 6x Schneider loupe to cull. Of every roll I shoot, a clear majority go into the wastebasket.
I first used a Brownie camera in the mid-30s. Later, I had mowed enough grass and pulled weeds for our neighbors to buy an Argus "brick." I used tri-x and plus-x and developed and printed in a makeshift darkroom in my bathroom. I had a second-hand Bessler enlarger with a lens of questionable ancestory.
Fortunately (or unfortunately) WWII came along, and I found myself at West Point as a Cadet - - with ZERO develpoing and printing capability. The Cadet Camera Club had been shut down for "security reasons." So, I discovered the Granddaddy of all Kodachromes (ASA 12) and kept on shooting. My Dad had a GE reflective meter that I "borrowed,"and used until, much later, I was able to purcase one of the early Norwood Director incident meters.
I found myself in Germany in 1945, where I was able to purchase a IIIc through the PX. That IIIc ,and its 50mm 3.5 Elmar, was my constant companion through the various iterations of Kodachrome (K, KII, K25, K64) until I purchased one of the early M4s in 1965. Meanwhile, that IIIc had gone with me to Germany, Austria, Switzerland, Italy, all over the US, England, North Africa, Alaska, Thule Greenland, Guam and Japan. Along the way, I made a deliberate switch from reflective metering to incident metering, moving up in the chain of incident meters that became available. (Yeah, I was in the Army from 1945 until 1949 - and during my major "travel's" from 1950 through i961, I was a pilot and a commander in the Strategic Air Command - - going all over the world).
After acquiring our M4, I took it with us (my spouse and me) on extensive visits to the Southwest US, Japan, Thailand, Alaska, England, Holland, Belgium, Scotland, Wales, France, Germany, Switzerland, Italy, ands Austria.
During the late 1980s ,we bought an M6 classic, that we took with us (along with the M4) to Japan, New Zealand, the UK, Holland and France and over the Southwest US .
Finally, we succumed and acquired one of the early M7, as I wanted the accurate shutter speeds, and my spouse was getting tired of using the incident meter to set exposure (grumble, grumble, grumble).
So now, at 82 for my spouse and 85 for me, we're restricted to selecting our shooting targets more carefully (as we both have difficulty walking over distances), and finally, after all these years, we've both learned to be slightly more selective in what we shoot.
Whatever: A&I processes our slides, I mount the good ones in either glass or plastic, we pull down the screen that we had built into the ceiling in the den, fire up the P 2002, and relive the highlights of our lives.
Not bad for a couple of octogenerians, is it?
"
God, I'd love to meet you but I'm in the other corner of the continent (Vancouver Is.). I would love to hear more of your stories from back when and see some shots from your past. And I thought mine from the '60's were historic! Can you post any of yours?
I am encouraged that I might have another quarter century playing with these great machines as long as I can find the film. I'll bet I could learn a lot from you.
Cheers"
Hi , Stoneax -
Nitty-gritty first: I'm on a third-rate dial-up connection, and I never bought a scanner, as its use would be, at most, problematical. Further, my slides go into the regular 50-slide Leica trays for projection with our P2002, using a SuperColorplan, on a Daylte matte screen. I have a color-corrected light box that will hold ~ 50 slides, and I use a 6x Schneider loupe to cull. Of every roll I shoot, a clear majority go into the wastebasket.
I first used a Brownie camera in the mid-30s. Later, I had mowed enough grass and pulled weeds for our neighbors to buy an Argus "brick." I used tri-x and plus-x and developed and printed in a makeshift darkroom in my bathroom. I had a second-hand Bessler enlarger with a lens of questionable ancestory.
Fortunately (or unfortunately) WWII came along, and I found myself at West Point as a Cadet - - with ZERO develpoing and printing capability. The Cadet Camera Club had been shut down for "security reasons." So, I discovered the Granddaddy of all Kodachromes (ASA 12) and kept on shooting. My Dad had a GE reflective meter that I "borrowed,"and used until, much later, I was able to purcase one of the early Norwood Director incident meters.
I found myself in Germany in 1945, where I was able to purchase a IIIc through the PX. That IIIc ,and its 50mm 3.5 Elmar, was my constant companion through the various iterations of Kodachrome (K, KII, K25, K64) until I purchased one of the early M4s in 1965. Meanwhile, that IIIc had gone with me to Germany, Austria, Switzerland, Italy, all over the US, England, North Africa, Alaska, Thule Greenland, Guam and Japan. Along the way, I made a deliberate switch from reflective metering to incident metering, moving up in the chain of incident meters that became available. (Yeah, I was in the Army from 1945 until 1949 - and during my major "travel's" from 1950 through i961, I was a pilot and a commander in the Strategic Air Command - - going all over the world).
After acquiring our M4, I took it with us (my spouse and me) on extensive visits to the Southwest US, Japan, Thailand, Alaska, England, Holland, Belgium, Scotland, Wales, France, Germany, Switzerland, Italy, ands Austria.
During the late 1980s ,we bought an M6 classic, that we took with us (along with the M4) to Japan, New Zealand, the UK, Holland and France and over the Southwest US .
Finally, we succumed and acquired one of the early M7, as I wanted the accurate shutter speeds, and my spouse was getting tired of using the incident meter to set exposure (grumble, grumble, grumble).
So now, at 82 for my spouse and 85 for me, we're restricted to selecting our shooting targets more carefully (as we both have difficulty walking over distances), and finally, after all these years, we've both learned to be slightly more selective in what we shoot.
Whatever: A&I processes our slides, I mount the good ones in either glass or plastic, we pull down the screen that we had built into the ceiling in the den, fire up the P 2002, and relive the highlights of our lives.
Not bad for a couple of octogenerians, is it?
Cindy Flood
Established
Mr. GBerger,
You have made my day! God Bless you and your wife.
You have made my day! God Bless you and your wife.
Stoneaxe
Member
gberger:
I did hope you would flesh out your history and, thanks, it's even better than I hoped.
I, too, was a pilot, albeit commercial, and, unlike you, abandoned my passion for nitty gritty photography (for 25 years) as I knew it in my youth. I was frequently on the move and darkrooms were not an option at the time. When I retired 5 yrs. ago at 55, I craved to revisit my old love as it was always a fantasy of mine to pursue photography in my adulthood when I could afford the hardware and time to put into it. On retirement, I still had my old Nikon F (28/50/200) after selling my M3 (+50 f/2) in '75 for $200 not to mention my Rollei, Mamiya, etc.
With my severance pay I rebought into the old Rollei 3.5E, M3 and to ice the cake, a new MP with new 50, 35 and a bit later 90. No regrets. I am having a wonderful time reliving the old passion. The old jeans don't fit any more but the cameras sure do.
I rebuilt my old darkroom with new stuff and currently have 4 rolls of Tri-X waiting for souping. Maybe those next rolls will have that image that I have been dreaming of!
I recently acquired a DSLR (D200) and enjoy it as well as our PS compact Canon 710IS digital compact but can't get over the feel of the leica in my hands or the smell of D76 in the skin of my fingers.
Wonderful to hear from you. Thanks so much for contributing some of your life to us.
Stoneaxe
I did hope you would flesh out your history and, thanks, it's even better than I hoped.
I, too, was a pilot, albeit commercial, and, unlike you, abandoned my passion for nitty gritty photography (for 25 years) as I knew it in my youth. I was frequently on the move and darkrooms were not an option at the time. When I retired 5 yrs. ago at 55, I craved to revisit my old love as it was always a fantasy of mine to pursue photography in my adulthood when I could afford the hardware and time to put into it. On retirement, I still had my old Nikon F (28/50/200) after selling my M3 (+50 f/2) in '75 for $200 not to mention my Rollei, Mamiya, etc.
With my severance pay I rebought into the old Rollei 3.5E, M3 and to ice the cake, a new MP with new 50, 35 and a bit later 90. No regrets. I am having a wonderful time reliving the old passion. The old jeans don't fit any more but the cameras sure do.
I rebuilt my old darkroom with new stuff and currently have 4 rolls of Tri-X waiting for souping. Maybe those next rolls will have that image that I have been dreaming of!
I recently acquired a DSLR (D200) and enjoy it as well as our PS compact Canon 710IS digital compact but can't get over the feel of the leica in my hands or the smell of D76 in the skin of my fingers.
Wonderful to hear from you. Thanks so much for contributing some of your life to us.
Stoneaxe
pfoto
Well-known
Not bad at all sir! Thank you for sharing!gberger said:
gberger
Member
Dear Stoneax, Cindy and Pfoto -
Thanks for"listening." Pat and I have enjoyed a lifetime together of shooting photos of where we've been and what we've done.
Yup, we could have done it with a Nikon or a Canon SLR, but we chose to do it with "Old Reliable." It was so much easier to tote around a IIIc , or an M4, or an M6 than a kludge of Japanese SLRs with a couple of interchangeable lenses.
Maybe we were foolish - - but we don't think so.
Now, both of us have some degree of macular degeneration - - but we still can see that big screen and our slides. via the P2002.
Thanks, Leica!
George and Pat
Thanks for"listening." Pat and I have enjoyed a lifetime together of shooting photos of where we've been and what we've done.
Yup, we could have done it with a Nikon or a Canon SLR, but we chose to do it with "Old Reliable." It was so much easier to tote around a IIIc , or an M4, or an M6 than a kludge of Japanese SLRs with a couple of interchangeable lenses.
Maybe we were foolish - - but we don't think so.
Now, both of us have some degree of macular degeneration - - but we still can see that big screen and our slides. via the P2002.
Thanks, Leica!
George and Pat
maddoc
... likes film again.
gberger, very interesting reading ! Since you have been a couple of times in Japan (and I live here for nearly five years), I would be very interested to see some of your photos from these times.
Cheers,
maddoc
Cheers,
maddoc
MCTuomey
Veteran
what cindy said. and may the bergers have many more years of shooting ahead.
gberger
Member
Hi, maddoc -
I'd like to; however, I've never had a scanner, and I'm on a not-so-swift dial-up connection. We're too far away from the CS for DSL, and Comcast (so far) has not seen fit to upgrade the ancient first-generation cables that were laid in the early eighties. Heck, I have to use an amplifier on the basic cable signal to get a decent TV picture.
So, exchange seems out of the question. Most of our photos were of Nara, Kyoto, Hiroshimaand Hokaido. My other photos (when I was still in the Air Force) were of enviorns and people in the vicinity of Yokota, plus airborne shots of the never-ending haibachi pot smoke that permeated the evening light in the Kanto Plain.
I gotta' admit, in all my time in Japan (early) and when I was there with my wife, I never could screw up the courage to order either eel or the blowfish - - not could we gain an affinity for the "beds" in the roykans.
Cheers, George - - who wished the 24mm had been invented when we were in Japan.
I'd like to; however, I've never had a scanner, and I'm on a not-so-swift dial-up connection. We're too far away from the CS for DSL, and Comcast (so far) has not seen fit to upgrade the ancient first-generation cables that were laid in the early eighties. Heck, I have to use an amplifier on the basic cable signal to get a decent TV picture.
So, exchange seems out of the question. Most of our photos were of Nara, Kyoto, Hiroshimaand Hokaido. My other photos (when I was still in the Air Force) were of enviorns and people in the vicinity of Yokota, plus airborne shots of the never-ending haibachi pot smoke that permeated the evening light in the Kanto Plain.
I gotta' admit, in all my time in Japan (early) and when I was there with my wife, I never could screw up the courage to order either eel or the blowfish - - not could we gain an affinity for the "beds" in the roykans.
Cheers, George - - who wished the 24mm had been invented when we were in Japan.
sepiareverb
genius and moron
gberger said:
You're not alone on this one. Verizon never ran the high tech network lines that were to cover the entire state of Vermont by 2005, despite getting a pretty good tax break. I live at the end of the line, and have no hope of ever getting DSL. Thankfully I can get a pretty fast radio signal, there may be some similar option where you are if you're itching for faster.
nobbylon
Veteran
Sepiareverb and ditto's, sorry but I have to disagree with you. If I bolted an mp wind lever to my m6 I would never know the difference. In fact, if it had a different paintjob and mp rewind on it I would think it was an mp, in the way it feels. I think the finder upgrade is a worthwhile upgrade but as I've said elsewhere, I think the MP is very good marketing job by Leica and a few long time supporters to convince us all it's a better camera. I think that some need to justify to themselves perhaps that spending maybe 2-4x as much on an MP over an M6 was worthwhile! I don't mind the way anyone spends their own cash but to say people are wrong is kidding yourselves! best j
best j
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