noimmunity
scratch my niche
A fun time for all with all the new cameras coming out.
One thing I cannot help but notice, however, is the glaring lack of alternatives to the current queens/kings of the sub-$3000 dRF, the M8 and the R-D1.
For those who don't want to sell a kidney or the entirety of their lens collection just to own an M9, MM, or M10, yet want the purity of a mechanical rangefinder in a digital format, there is no other option.
It may never be actualized, but the market price segmentation is definitely leaving the door wide open for an update to the M8/R-D1 class.
In the meantime, both the M8 and the R-D1 continue to enjoy relevance. Plus, they can make really cool images
One thing I cannot help but notice, however, is the glaring lack of alternatives to the current queens/kings of the sub-$3000 dRF, the M8 and the R-D1.
For those who don't want to sell a kidney or the entirety of their lens collection just to own an M9, MM, or M10, yet want the purity of a mechanical rangefinder in a digital format, there is no other option.
It may never be actualized, but the market price segmentation is definitely leaving the door wide open for an update to the M8/R-D1 class.
In the meantime, both the M8 and the R-D1 continue to enjoy relevance. Plus, they can make really cool images
jippiejee
Well-known
Funny, somehow I thought one of the new Leica announcements might have been a M8.3 with recent aps-c sensor. It would have made sense. Maybe the rumored M-light evil camera will be close to that. "Various M-derived products" is what Thorsten Overgaard mentioned in his latest article, and I can't imagine something M8-like not to be one of those.
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There was never a $3000 M8... it's only that way now because it's so damn old.
Paul Luscher
Well-known
noimmunity
scratch my niche
True. At the time of the their release, both the M8 and the R-D1 represented considerable R&D that had to be recuperated.
But nobody today is going to believe the argument that significant R&D costs could still be involved in the design and bringing to market of an updated APS-C model.
But nobody today is going to believe the argument that significant R&D costs could still be involved in the design and bringing to market of an updated APS-C model.
noimmunity
scratch my niche
In fact, there was.
Buying my M8 new, while it was still in production and before the release of the M9, I actually paid considerably LESS than US$3000.
I do have a sale receipt to prove it. But then again, there are those who don't believe the President of the United States was native-born even after he publicly disclosed his birth certificate XDDD!
damien.murphy
Damien
Would be nice to see a digital CL. M9 prices leave existing Leica film shooters open to a digital rangefinder with no product options from Leica. I applaud others who play the M8/ R-D1 roulette, but its not for me.
kmallick
Well-known
or a digital CLE maybe?
doesn't SONY have some leftover know-how from the Minolta guys they took over to come up with a decent digital CLE? combine that with their full frame sensor and we are talking about some competition.
user237428934
User deletion pending
What M8 roulette? No problems with M8 since 2008. I have it because I'm a big rangefinder fan, so no XPro for me. I'm not a high iso freak so I get wonderful images from it.
boomguy57
Well-known
I think that Fuji's two most recent offerings (X100 and XP1) are fine for people who are in that niche. The niche of those who can't/won't afford M9, M10, etc AND who aren't satisfied with the Fuji rangefinder-esque products is so small as to be--dare I say?--insignificant.
Sorry. There will be no digital CL/CLE either. I'm sorry to say but rangefinders aren't that practical for anyone to make, besides Leica.
Sorry. There will be no digital CL/CLE either. I'm sorry to say but rangefinders aren't that practical for anyone to make, besides Leica.
DRabbit
Registered
I disagree. The Fuji XPro1 would be a nice camera to have, but it can't replace my M8. And if my M8 dies tomorrow, I'm SOL. I would have no choice by to take the risk of buying used.
boomguy57
Well-known
Is that simply because you can't afford an M9, or is there some other reason that makes the M8 unique and better suited to your needs?
damien.murphy
Damien
or a digital CLE maybe?
Indeed
Have read too many user experiences with problems/ sensor replacements/etc, to consider it a risk-free purchase. That is roulette in my book - spin the wheel and take your chances.
Didn't Leica have to pull the plug on the CL all those years ago because they were selling too well? Hardly seems like there's no market for a digital version more keenly priced than an M9, especially considering all the M-Mount film users out there who right now are priced out of the digital rangefinder game..
DRabbit
Registered
Both. Primarily it's price, first and foremost. I do prefer the output of the M8 a bit better, plus its 1/8000 max shutter speed. The 1.3x crop factor doesn't bother me at all and I sometimes wish for Leica to release a digital CL that's a 1.3 or 1.5 crop and CHEAPER. I'm dreaming, I know.
However, regardless, there is really no "affordable" option for a digital rangefinder, unless you're willing to buy used. I find that unfortunate. My daughter's best friend, who is quite serious about photography, LOVES shooting with a rangefinder, but no way she can afford one in the digital realm.
noimmunity
scratch my niche
I have both, and I agree (with your disagreement). The XP1 doesn't replace a camera with a combined mechanical VF/RF. They do make a sweet pair, however, that does things an M9 alone for instance couldn't do.
kmallick
Well-known
I am a super happy owner of a M9. But I am guilty of daydreaming for more choices as much as any other rangefinder aficionado. I can also be tempted to be as much an armchair analyst. But everyone agrees that Leica needs some competition, be it from Epson, Cosina, Fuji or SONY.
boomguy57
Well-known
Don't get me wrong, I'd love a digital RF. But the prices are way out of whack. Most consumers don't want manual cameras anymore, so it's not practical for a company to invest in the RF game at this point. To me that's just common sense.
kmallick
Well-known
You are absolutely correct. But many of us are stuck between accepting this as a fact and the steep price of a Leica digital M. Hence the daydreaming.
boomguy57
Well-known
You are absolutely correct. But many of us are stuck between accepting this as a fact and the steep price of a Leica digital M. Hence the daydreaming.
But now there are alternatives in the form of Fuji's X100 and XP1. While not technically rangefinders, they provide--in my opinion--a very similar experience at a fraction of the cost. Better ISO performance, equal in IQ and resolution in my opinion (had to put that on before the Leica police get on me)...what's not to like?
igi
Well-known
I still have to sell a kidney to get an M8.