jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
ywenz said:
Boy, am I glad that the only flower shot in my gallery was not on a walk but in my garden...😀 😀 😀
M8 and Simon Wheatley in BJP
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Boy, am I glad that the only flower shot in my gallery was not on a walk but in my garden...😀 😀 😀
HansDerHase
Established
I'm talking not about the images in the essay but the ones behind the "M8"-Link, which I hope (and guess as some seem to be high ISO) were actually made with an M8.IGMeanwell said:
ywenz
Veteran
jaapv said:
But he couldn't have been talking about you because you don't have any flower shots with your M8 yet.. 😉
IGMeanwell
Well-known
To answer the original thread question...
The reason Digital has a perceived flatness or lifelessness ... would be latitude and dynamic range
Digital backs are the only sensors that have come close to film in those respects... this is why digital is easier to overexpose, overblow, or what have you...
The Fuji S1, S2, S3 were not the easiest DSLRs to use yet they are a favorite of the image quality crowd because the Super CCD sensor has a greater dynamic range than the DX and CMOS chips.
Same thing is film ... some films have higher latitudes, some have flatter latitudes... but it still all comes down to the photographer, his abilities, pre and post processing; of course their eye.
If you don't like digital photography because you can't get the same results or you feel nobody can get the "proper" results then thats your opinion.
I am just amazed at the sheer joy some of us are getting at slamming Leica in the ground as if they had insulted the photographic community for releasing the M8. Granted it has problems, but think of how many threads since the day it was announced of speculations, arguments, and heralds regarding this camera ... there was absolutely no way Leica was going to satisfy even 85% ... they are lucky to get 60%
The reason Digital has a perceived flatness or lifelessness ... would be latitude and dynamic range
Digital backs are the only sensors that have come close to film in those respects... this is why digital is easier to overexpose, overblow, or what have you...
The Fuji S1, S2, S3 were not the easiest DSLRs to use yet they are a favorite of the image quality crowd because the Super CCD sensor has a greater dynamic range than the DX and CMOS chips.
Same thing is film ... some films have higher latitudes, some have flatter latitudes... but it still all comes down to the photographer, his abilities, pre and post processing; of course their eye.
If you don't like digital photography because you can't get the same results or you feel nobody can get the "proper" results then thats your opinion.
I am just amazed at the sheer joy some of us are getting at slamming Leica in the ground as if they had insulted the photographic community for releasing the M8. Granted it has problems, but think of how many threads since the day it was announced of speculations, arguments, and heralds regarding this camera ... there was absolutely no way Leica was going to satisfy even 85% ... they are lucky to get 60%
x-ray
Veteran
Nachkebia said:
I don't see this as a particularly great documentary camera. Whether the images are stunning or not it's a bit shy of pixels for a serious documantary camera. It will be fine for small reproductions and prints up to 14 inches but I suspect it will seriously suffer above that.
J. Borger
Well-known
So what's the point here ? .. PS work on that picture was about 20 seconds, the time to resize and sharpen for web. It's R-D1 B&W mode, pretty much off camera.Nachkebia said:
But i really do not get why you turn this personal or in a film vs digital topic?
It was about the way Wheatly had his work printed because he wanted to have his picture a certain look .. which is perfectly in line with tast at this moment
He could have made the same prints if he had captured on film, or glossy prints with high contrast from his M8 files.
I do not even know why i am going into a discussion with you ... :bang:
Just wished you could once in a while forget about your anti-digital crusade ... and look beyond the capturing medium .. .. i know i am askink the impossible from you though 😉
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humanized_form
Established
i think the dmr and film images look great. nice!
i am finding how you get there is really the issue for me, and it all varies according to personal preferences. i use both mediums (started with digital and now primarily shoot slides), use computers every day all day at work, am comfortable with digital manipulation etc... but the digital process just seems gross to me in ways i can't explain. something about computers needing other computers to fix the images they capture. i just can't help but feel we are going backwards in some ways and making something more complicated to achieve a similar result.
is post processing creative freedom? it could be viewed that way. yes, we can work images over in post forever, but i just keep thinking why does that have to be necessary to get a high quality result? why can't the exposure decisions be made at the time you are taking the photo and achieve a high quality image?
thanks for great thread!
kevin
i am finding how you get there is really the issue for me, and it all varies according to personal preferences. i use both mediums (started with digital and now primarily shoot slides), use computers every day all day at work, am comfortable with digital manipulation etc... but the digital process just seems gross to me in ways i can't explain. something about computers needing other computers to fix the images they capture. i just can't help but feel we are going backwards in some ways and making something more complicated to achieve a similar result.
is post processing creative freedom? it could be viewed that way. yes, we can work images over in post forever, but i just keep thinking why does that have to be necessary to get a high quality result? why can't the exposure decisions be made at the time you are taking the photo and achieve a high quality image?
thanks for great thread!
kevin
IGMeanwell
Well-known
Would you prefer an analog system to manipulate digital images?
What do you feel about computers manipulating analog images?
Do you have a problem with dodging and burning in the dark room when printing? Or possibly an analog unsharp mask?
I just ask these questions, because photo manipulation is part of photography... whether its times for processing film, different developers, tempertures... different photo papers, different enlarging lenses... different types of analog processing its all a means to get the image that you perceive in your mind
What do you feel about computers manipulating analog images?
Do you have a problem with dodging and burning in the dark room when printing? Or possibly an analog unsharp mask?
I just ask these questions, because photo manipulation is part of photography... whether its times for processing film, different developers, tempertures... different photo papers, different enlarging lenses... different types of analog processing its all a means to get the image that you perceive in your mind
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
ywenz said:
Ok. I'll stay well away from weekend walks then 😉
humanized_form
Established
good questions. personally...i have found that i like shooting color slides because i can make all the decisions at the time i take picture. i have found a really fun thing to me is thinking about everything as i take the picture. so i dunno, maybe it is just a phase i'm going through .... but i really don't alter images after i take them. my goal is that i have made decisions that make manipluation not necessary. i did do post when i used digicams and dslrs etc and like not having to do so with slides. so maybe what i do now is a reaction to digital imaging
i do get ones i like drum scanned for prints. so i am always digital in the end! haha...
i do get ones i like drum scanned for prints. so i am always digital in the end! haha...
ywenz
Veteran
jaapv said:
just dont post a stopped down picture of a flower with muted colors and call that "see how good the M8 is!?" promise?
Allen Gilman
Well-known
"Another blind statment, it has been long time since you have seen velvia obviously... did you also check that plastic high-lights? does those look like velvia too?"
and it must be a long time since you've seen film since these pics were not taken with a digital cam...check out the plastic highlights running through your comments in this thread 😀 😀 😀
i think we're gonna need a few months of a lot of shooting to see how the m8 really performs so kick back and enjoy the ride folks 😛
and it must be a long time since you've seen film since these pics were not taken with a digital cam...check out the plastic highlights running through your comments in this thread 😀 😀 😀
i think we're gonna need a few months of a lot of shooting to see how the m8 really performs so kick back and enjoy the ride folks 😛
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
As a matter of fact I will be doing just that in due course, but for a different reason: I have figured out a way to do real macro on a M camera: I plan to use the Visoflex, my Noflexar400 and (I just found out this works) the 500D diopter by Canon. Everything fits. I cannot do Chrismas decorations due to the banding issue 😡 😉😀, so it will have to be flowers.Or rather small parts of them.ywenz said:
rolo
Established
jaapv said:
Oh yeah ??? Today he would have a sponsor deal worth about $10million a year.
"Hey Rem, what sneakers you wearing today man ?" 😉
S
StuartR
Guest
Perhaps people might find this interesting. Here are two Jpegs out of the DMR. One as the unadjusted raw file from flex color, and another my edit. Depending on your monitor and your taste, it may look overcooked, but the high contrast version is much closer to what real life looked like. Anyway, it is just an example of how much digital can vary based on the conversion and photogs vision. FWIW, all I did was a level's adjustment, clipping some shadow and highlight information and adjusting the midpoint darker.
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
rolo said:
Indeed he would, he was a pretty sharp business man, despite some disasters in that department.
Sparrow
Veteran
jaapv said:
apart from the bankruptcy!
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
Sparrow said:
I thought it was nicer to say disaster instead, this being his anniversary year...🙁 😀
