aizan
Veteran
corporate s is the sans serif they use for their print materials. i haven't really looked to see if they used a pre-existing typeface for their engravings, which i'm drawing up right now. 😀
M8- Gettin' a Grip on it
- Thread starter TS ISAAC
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TS ISAAC
Established
HELP.....
I do not use a flash, but I would like to know the diameter of the flash wire connector, the part you hold and plug into the socket on an M6. I also do not have my M4 with me. Can one of you good people with an M4 and an M6, check to see if the flash connector sockets are in the same position and look to be the same size. If possible, the diameter should be witinn 0.2 mm or so. There may be various manufacturers of the flash units and connecting wires, so I am in hopes of finding the biggest one made.
I think this Internet thing is going to catch on
MATT MILLS,
Well done. My first prototype was made of cardboard....you are miles ahead of me already. Hope you enjoy that new solid feel with your M8.
FIN,
Thanks for the font info. Whatthefont is a fine website. I did not exactly locate the Leica fonts, but I am much closer. Too many other details at the moment, but I will get a better font file for their system to interpret. I think that website will work.
HARRY LIME,
Your flush mounted SD card slot idea is a good one. I had worked such a concept through on a previous revision, but I found the depth of the slot was not deep enough to hold the SD card. I needed 6 mm minimum. The Thumbs Up model 2 is only 3mm thick. But your idea points the way to a more elegant shape. I am working on it now...but the SD card may not survive at all. Cest' la Vei. That is supposed ot be an attempt at French.
ATUFTE1,
That is an impressive bit of work that Solms did for you. Thanks for pointing the way with the multiple fonts. Leica has the coolest with their proprietary version for sure. I will do my best to get closer to the real deal, before I tool up.
Many many thnaks to all. While my brass prototype is being painted today, I have flipped on the CAD again and I am incorporating many ideas garnered from all of you good people. I hope to have the latest for your review shortly.
Time to shoot the engineers, (that would be all of us with design ideas).....and get on with it !
I do not use a flash, but I would like to know the diameter of the flash wire connector, the part you hold and plug into the socket on an M6. I also do not have my M4 with me. Can one of you good people with an M4 and an M6, check to see if the flash connector sockets are in the same position and look to be the same size. If possible, the diameter should be witinn 0.2 mm or so. There may be various manufacturers of the flash units and connecting wires, so I am in hopes of finding the biggest one made.
I think this Internet thing is going to catch on
MATT MILLS,
Well done. My first prototype was made of cardboard....you are miles ahead of me already. Hope you enjoy that new solid feel with your M8.
FIN,
Thanks for the font info. Whatthefont is a fine website. I did not exactly locate the Leica fonts, but I am much closer. Too many other details at the moment, but I will get a better font file for their system to interpret. I think that website will work.
HARRY LIME,
Your flush mounted SD card slot idea is a good one. I had worked such a concept through on a previous revision, but I found the depth of the slot was not deep enough to hold the SD card. I needed 6 mm minimum. The Thumbs Up model 2 is only 3mm thick. But your idea points the way to a more elegant shape. I am working on it now...but the SD card may not survive at all. Cest' la Vei. That is supposed ot be an attempt at French.
ATUFTE1,
That is an impressive bit of work that Solms did for you. Thanks for pointing the way with the multiple fonts. Leica has the coolest with their proprietary version for sure. I will do my best to get closer to the real deal, before I tool up.
Many many thnaks to all. While my brass prototype is being painted today, I have flipped on the CAD again and I am incorporating many ideas garnered from all of you good people. I hope to have the latest for your review shortly.
Time to shoot the engineers, (that would be all of us with design ideas).....and get on with it !
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TS ISAAC
Established
Introducing my Thumbs Up model 3
Introducing my Thumbs Up model 3
What a day!
I started out with PACING. I am quite good at that. I considered all that has passed this past week, coffee in hand and worn rug at my feet. The ideas and contributions and the general feeling of support have given me a lot of energy to move on.
There was one comment that in particular, stuck in my head. FIN, thank you sir. FIN said, “and finally make it feel integral to the camera as a whole - make everything flush - even if it includes a chamfer down to the back of the camera.”
I could hear myself talking to other designers I have worked with. My version of FIN’s comment goes something like this…….”Combining multiple functions into a design, compromises all of the functions”. I am guilty of not following my own design process, namely, keeping it simple.
The SD card slot was cool for the SD card. But, as many have pointed out, it’s not necessary. It compromises the function of viewing and composing for the left eye viewers. I don’t like compromises, so it’s gone.
Others have mentioned that the Thumbs Up should fit on other models of cameras. I had turned up the volume on my i-Tunes, and what I should have done was turn up the volume on what was being politely recommended to me. Well today it finally sank in. So, not only is the SD card slot gone, the Thumbs Up will now fit on my M6, which sits right here on my desk beside my M8. Why not!
It’s true we all have become accustomed to the winding lever, but when I tried my model 2 brass prototype on my M6, well, it was nice! It did not fully seat on all the camera, but almost. Well, with an additional 9 hours of cad work today has addressed these design features.
MATT MILLS, I wish I had your hammer and hacksaw, I could have saved a lot of time. But, I only have my notebook computer and my cad and all the supportive comments, observations and ideas. So, I worked with what I know.
Introducing…..drum roll……, the Thumbs Up model 3.
My model 2 will become a one off, and I will retain it with its sd card holder as a reminder to stay on track.
JOE, thanks for the suggestion to model the silver M8. It is much easier to see the details of the Thumbs Up now, and to visualisze the real thing. Excellent.
Please leave your comments, criticisms and ideas right here. I am listening. We might just get this thing right.
Thanks FIN
Thanks all.
Time to rest the eyes.
Thumbs Up model 3 features:
Introducing my Thumbs Up model 3
What a day!
I started out with PACING. I am quite good at that. I considered all that has passed this past week, coffee in hand and worn rug at my feet. The ideas and contributions and the general feeling of support have given me a lot of energy to move on.
There was one comment that in particular, stuck in my head. FIN, thank you sir. FIN said, “and finally make it feel integral to the camera as a whole - make everything flush - even if it includes a chamfer down to the back of the camera.”
I could hear myself talking to other designers I have worked with. My version of FIN’s comment goes something like this…….”Combining multiple functions into a design, compromises all of the functions”. I am guilty of not following my own design process, namely, keeping it simple.
The SD card slot was cool for the SD card. But, as many have pointed out, it’s not necessary. It compromises the function of viewing and composing for the left eye viewers. I don’t like compromises, so it’s gone.
Others have mentioned that the Thumbs Up should fit on other models of cameras. I had turned up the volume on my i-Tunes, and what I should have done was turn up the volume on what was being politely recommended to me. Well today it finally sank in. So, not only is the SD card slot gone, the Thumbs Up will now fit on my M6, which sits right here on my desk beside my M8. Why not!
It’s true we all have become accustomed to the winding lever, but when I tried my model 2 brass prototype on my M6, well, it was nice! It did not fully seat on all the camera, but almost. Well, with an additional 9 hours of cad work today has addressed these design features.
MATT MILLS, I wish I had your hammer and hacksaw, I could have saved a lot of time. But, I only have my notebook computer and my cad and all the supportive comments, observations and ideas. So, I worked with what I know.
Introducing…..drum roll……, the Thumbs Up model 3.
My model 2 will become a one off, and I will retain it with its sd card holder as a reminder to stay on track.
JOE, thanks for the suggestion to model the silver M8. It is much easier to see the details of the Thumbs Up now, and to visualisze the real thing. Excellent.
Please leave your comments, criticisms and ideas right here. I am listening. We might just get this thing right.
Thanks FIN
Thanks all.
Time to rest the eyes.
Thumbs Up model 3 features:
- Flush mounted to both the hot shoe and the camera body upper surface*
- No SD card holder – smooth back surface with no protrusions
- Compatible with M6, M4 and perhaps other M models
- Will be die cast in brass, weight about 35.4 grams before painting
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ChrisN
Striving
Ah - very good! On the M4 at least, as you know, there are two flash outlets, one directly under the hot-shoe for bulb, and another to the left for strobe flash. I'm guessing there won't be too many people still using bulb flash, but you need the clearance hole to make the bracket sit flush on the back of the camera. Well done!
Harry Lime
Practitioner
Very nice.
Sometimes I think I should have stayed with industrial design...it was a lot of fun.
I like that you decided to battle 'feature creep' and dropped the SD slot. I just read an article in which Steve Jobs talks about how this is one of the most difficult challenges to overcome in industrial design.
Very nice work. I'll buy one.
Cheers,
HL
PS: How does the thickness of the plane (from the hotshoe to the start of the curve) up against the body of the camera feel in your hands? Is it too thick? Just right? I'm going to guess that the thinner you can make it, the more the grip will feel integrated with the camera. But I would leave the thumb rest nice and beefy like you have.
It does look well proportioned, though.
Sometimes I think I should have stayed with industrial design...it was a lot of fun.
I like that you decided to battle 'feature creep' and dropped the SD slot. I just read an article in which Steve Jobs talks about how this is one of the most difficult challenges to overcome in industrial design.
Very nice work. I'll buy one.
Cheers,
HL
PS: How does the thickness of the plane (from the hotshoe to the start of the curve) up against the body of the camera feel in your hands? Is it too thick? Just right? I'm going to guess that the thinner you can make it, the more the grip will feel integrated with the camera. But I would leave the thumb rest nice and beefy like you have.
It does look well proportioned, though.
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ywenz
Veteran
For glasses wearers who shoots with his left eye, does the handle protrude too much that it would touch the glasses surface? I'd be afraid to get my glasses scratched if that is the case.
HansRoggen
Member
Wow, this one is much better. Looks much better without the cd card holder. I'll buy one.
One thing i am curious about though: why would you want to have it fit the m6 or m4? Those camera's have the film wind lever that the m8 is missing, which is exactly the reason why you came up with this great idea.
Hans
One thing i am curious about though: why would you want to have it fit the m6 or m4? Those camera's have the film wind lever that the m8 is missing, which is exactly the reason why you came up with this great idea.
Hans
TS ISAAC
Established
YWENZ,
I put on my reading glasses and gave it a go. Seems like there is sufficient space for my own glasses. My nose seems to collide with the display screen before I can make my right eye glass lens touch.
The Thumbs Up will be less than 4mm thick, so it is just 1 mm more than the standard eyepiece ring on the camera. The Thumbs Up will also be painted black over brass, and the paint will help reduce the liklihood of scratching your glasses.
I put on my reading glasses and gave it a go. Seems like there is sufficient space for my own glasses. My nose seems to collide with the display screen before I can make my right eye glass lens touch.
The Thumbs Up will be less than 4mm thick, so it is just 1 mm more than the standard eyepiece ring on the camera. The Thumbs Up will also be painted black over brass, and the paint will help reduce the liklihood of scratching your glasses.
TS ISAAC
Established
HansRoggen said:
HANS,
There have been several requests for the Thumbs Up to fit other cameras including the M series. Allowing that design feature is not so complicated. It requires compensating for the flash wire, as you know.
I tried my model 2 prototype on my M6, and was surprised how well I could hold the camera. The thumb rest is well out past the winding lever, so, it provides you with a second holding position. Additionally, the Thumbs Up does not move as the winding lever does, and you can support the camera without any fear that it will slip, as it might if the winding lever partly advanced.
ERV
Well-known
Tim, Very nice, elegant design.
Which program did you use to model the M8?
I don't even have an M8 and I want one.
Which program did you use to model the M8?
I don't even have an M8 and I want one.
mattmills
madman (w/ camera)
thanks for the compliment, tim. My CAD program is in my head, my CNC machine my hands. Usually if I'm going to do something like this, I'll sit and think for a couple days before I start doing anything. Unfortunately, after sanding my model down, it is a little loose in width in the flash shoe (so much for cnc machine hands, eh?). I'm thinking, though, that a couple of set screws in that part would hold it just fine, and eliminate the need for such tight tolerances.
Did you find with your first prototype that your thumb slipped off? One of the iterations in my thinking was actually a full ring for the thumb, but then I had visions of severed thumbs, a la sports injuries when somone was wearing a ring, and so opted for a hook, which I like (although I tightened it a bit after playing around, so it's a little smaller than in the pic I posted). My thumb tends to rest in the back of the hook, pulling back and away from the camera.
Does anyone know where I can get some rubbery grippy paint? I seem to remember that it's available somewhere, but no idea where or when I saw it. I think that'd be the best way to finish it, with a nice grippy surface on the inside, and black everywhere else. anyway, later everyone
Did you find with your first prototype that your thumb slipped off? One of the iterations in my thinking was actually a full ring for the thumb, but then I had visions of severed thumbs, a la sports injuries when somone was wearing a ring, and so opted for a hook, which I like (although I tightened it a bit after playing around, so it's a little smaller than in the pic I posted). My thumb tends to rest in the back of the hook, pulling back and away from the camera.
Does anyone know where I can get some rubbery grippy paint? I seem to remember that it's available somewhere, but no idea where or when I saw it. I think that'd be the best way to finish it, with a nice grippy surface on the inside, and black everywhere else. anyway, later everyone
ferider
Veteran
Great idea, design and execution, Tim, my compliments !!
I do wonder though how much torque the flash shoe can take.
Roland.
I do wonder though how much torque the flash shoe can take.
Roland.
Fin
Member
Tim,
Now I'm convinced you're a genius! Those final designs are exactly the look I envisaged when I saw your first offerings.
Now... make your product reek of quality (weight to size ratio and beautiful finish) and you will have a winner my friend! (let's face it, the reason why Luigi is so successful is that he doesn't compromise when it comes to the quality of his leather).
The next lens is on hold - this is my next big purchase.
Regards
Fin
Now I'm convinced you're a genius! Those final designs are exactly the look I envisaged when I saw your first offerings.
Now... make your product reek of quality (weight to size ratio and beautiful finish) and you will have a winner my friend! (let's face it, the reason why Luigi is so successful is that he doesn't compromise when it comes to the quality of his leather).
The next lens is on hold - this is my next big purchase.
Regards
Fin
Joe Mondello
Resu Deretsiger
Tim, you've been busy, my friend!
Great job on the v3. I didn't think it could get any better but I was wrong. Outstanding work!
BTW, is that you and Mrs. Isaac on the camera LCD?
Great job on the v3. I didn't think it could get any better but I was wrong. Outstanding work!
BTW, is that you and Mrs. Isaac on the camera LCD?
TS ISAAC
Established
Get yourself an M8
Get yourself an M8
ERV,
thank you sir!
I prefer Solid Works for 3D modeling.
The M8 is all I wanted from my M6 and so much more. The more I use it, the more I want to use it. But I am sure you have read all the praises already. Simply a great tool.
Get yourself an M8
ERV said:
ERV,
thank you sir!
I prefer Solid Works for 3D modeling.
The M8 is all I wanted from my M6 and so much more. The more I use it, the more I want to use it. But I am sure you have read all the praises already. Simply a great tool.
usccharles
Well-known
Tim You Are Awesome! Still Waiting For Bank Info... 🙂
D&A
Well-known
Design Request
Design Request
Hi Tim,
Let me echo what everyone else has said...... "elegant & exquisite"...a work of art!
May I make one personal suggestion? I presume not a very large percentage of M8 users use flash (or not that often)....but that a good percentage do use on a regular basis a external viewfinder...often leaving one perminantly attached to the hotshoe. Although maybe not as elegant, I do hope there will be an optional version that contains a "cold" shoe for those that regulary use external finders.....to aviod having to remove your thumb grip everytime they use an external finder. Just a suggestion and thanks for keeping us posted on developments.
Dave
Design Request
Hi Tim,
Let me echo what everyone else has said...... "elegant & exquisite"...a work of art!
May I make one personal suggestion? I presume not a very large percentage of M8 users use flash (or not that often)....but that a good percentage do use on a regular basis a external viewfinder...often leaving one perminantly attached to the hotshoe. Although maybe not as elegant, I do hope there will be an optional version that contains a "cold" shoe for those that regulary use external finders.....to aviod having to remove your thumb grip everytime they use an external finder. Just a suggestion and thanks for keeping us posted on developments.
Dave
TS ISAAC
Established
D&A said:
DAVE,
Thanks for your compliment and good suggestion. As you may have read in previous messages, your cold shoe idea is a good one and also reflected in the comments of others. I also find your design concept worthy and will pursue this idea a bit later and, I hope, to try to make it "elegant" too.
For now however, my efforts focus on the fit, finish and quality of my Thumbs Up model 3 and those efforts are first on my short list. A signifcant investment must be made to produce to the high standards we would all expect, and by changing designs now, I would delay my efforts again.
My basic concept is wrapped up in the model 3. If it works, I will consider this the green light to expand to include cold shoes and hot shoes alike.
Many thanks again for your message Dave.
Today the model 2 prototype painting will be complete. I hope to post some photos for you all. The model 2 development is stopped for now, but it still provides a useful base from which to test out the function and feel and today......the paint !
etrigan63
Rangefinder Padawan
Tim,
let me first say that this idea is brilliant! I don't even own a Leica (yet) and I want one! Considering the development costs and some sort of profit margin for you, what do you expect the price to be?
let me first say that this idea is brilliant! I don't even own a Leica (yet) and I want one! Considering the development costs and some sort of profit margin for you, what do you expect the price to be?
D&A
Well-known
Hi Tim,
Thanks ever so much for your insightful response. I couldn't agree more....with the development of the Model "3" well underway and elegant in it's design, I can understand your going ahead with this model first before determining what additional models are to be added to the line. I think the one thing to consider is for those that do use external viewfinders.....how many might hold off purchasing model 3 in the hopes cold (and maybe hot shoe) models may not be far behind and not wanting to end uphaving to upgrade in a very short period of time. Again it's appreciated that you recognize that more than one model may be desirable and you certainly have my support. Many thanks!
Dave
Thanks ever so much for your insightful response. I couldn't agree more....with the development of the Model "3" well underway and elegant in it's design, I can understand your going ahead with this model first before determining what additional models are to be added to the line. I think the one thing to consider is for those that do use external viewfinders.....how many might hold off purchasing model 3 in the hopes cold (and maybe hot shoe) models may not be far behind and not wanting to end uphaving to upgrade in a very short period of time. Again it's appreciated that you recognize that more than one model may be desirable and you certainly have my support. Many thanks!
Dave