isalan
Alan42
A hot shoe on top would be great for wide angle viewers. Also how well will it fit on a camera with a half case? Maybe I'd have to trim the case. Buy the way good job, it looks great.
M8- Gettin' a Grip on it
- Thread starter TS ISAAC
- Start date
- Latest activity Latest activity:
- Replies 270
- Views 54K
Speenth
Emmaiter
Hi' Bob,Bob Parsons said:
Below is Giotto's reply to my recent query. Given this response, its interesting that the links you so usefully provided suggest the SP8250 is tailor-made by Giottos, even to the extent it has been slightly trimmed in size over time to improve the fit. To be fair, I think Giotto's may have interpreted my request as ONE screen for both my M8 and my D-Lux 3!
On reviewing the links I read a lot of negative comments about these Schott glass screens. For now I think I'll stick with the plastic stickies.
Giotto's response:
Regarding your kind interested glass protector to fitLeica M8 and Leica D-Lux 3 camera, here we're very sorry to advise that we don't have such special protector for it presently, and we will notice you if we made this glass protector in the future, or please kindly double check our other existing sizes from our website to see if there are any size can meet your kind requirement, many thanks!
Should you have any other questions, please just feel freely to contact us!
Thank you very much again for your kind supporting to Giotto’s!
Wish you have a great day then!
All the best,
Lilian
-----------------------------------------------------
Lilian Zhou / Overseas Sales
Giottos / Rosenlite Ind. Inc. (Shenzhen Office)
Tel: +86-755-27051706
Fax: +86-755-27072357
E-mail: sales-giottos@giottos.com.cn
Speenth
Emmaiter
The Finish:
I have changed my original course, which was to use a matt finish as you suggested, but the matt finish did not feel right.
Logo:
Rather than copy the Leica font, I felt quite comfortable taking my own route with a logo and font that could be identified with my own products.
Model number:
When Leica moves its M8 model number to the baseplate where it can't be seen, I will move my model 1 and model 3 model numbers too.
Hi' Tim,
Good points all! Ignore me and get on with the serious business of disrtibuting these great little devices.
Screen Protector:
Tony Rose provided me with that Giottos in June, and I am very pleased with it. Bob Parsons is right, it is an SP8250. Lucky for us all that SP8250 model number was easy to find![/quote]
A lot of posts suggest the Giotto's Schott glass protectors are fragile. In consequence I'm minded to stick with the stickyplastic variety. You seem to me to be the right guy to provide a technical evaluation of these accessories - what do you really think - as an engineer and designer?
I have changed my original course, which was to use a matt finish as you suggested, but the matt finish did not feel right.
Logo:
Rather than copy the Leica font, I felt quite comfortable taking my own route with a logo and font that could be identified with my own products.
Model number:
When Leica moves its M8 model number to the baseplate where it can't be seen, I will move my model 1 and model 3 model numbers too.
Hi' Tim,
Good points all! Ignore me and get on with the serious business of disrtibuting these great little devices.
Screen Protector:
Tony Rose provided me with that Giottos in June, and I am very pleased with it. Bob Parsons is right, it is an SP8250. Lucky for us all that SP8250 model number was easy to find![/quote]
A lot of posts suggest the Giotto's Schott glass protectors are fragile. In consequence I'm minded to stick with the stickyplastic variety. You seem to me to be the right guy to provide a technical evaluation of these accessories - what do you really think - as an engineer and designer?
roundg
Well-known
It is a great design. I like it. I think it fit on other leica M bodies well at the same time.
TS ISAAC
Established
Alan Watson,
Thanks for the kind words.
Half Case:
I have not tried my M8 and Thumbs Up with any half cases. There are quite a variety and I believe you are right, some trimming might be required. Some of the cases are so fine however, that I would be tempted to remove the Thumbs Up while it was in the case, if you were not going to use your camera.
Hot Shoe:
This idea has been mentionedseveral times. Both a cold shoe and hot shoe would bring even more utility to the Thumbs Up. Now that I have this design in production, I may have the chance to look at another version with a cold shoe. Stay tuned.
Speenth,
I did get on a bit of a critical run there, slicing into your good observations. Forgive me...coffee was running low.
Giottos Schott Glass:
These protective devices serve the protective function differently, depending on the material. I believe the Giottos are trying to provide you with optically the best protector. Most plastic cannot be as good as glass, in my opinion, when considerting this chactersitic. Protection however does not mean that it cannot be damaged. Glass cleans so very well, and is tough enough to avoid most scratches, but you cannot rely on the 0.5mm thin glass to be impervious to hard strikes. Plastic would serve you better if you use your camera under such conditions, but optically would not be as good.
Roundg,
You are right, the Thumbs Up will fit on other M cameras also. I have used a TU on my M6. With the M6, I prefer the model 3, the longer version. Both the model 1 and model 3 will work quite well on your older M model camera. You will find the grip on those cameras when using the Thumbs Up is also much improved.
Thanks for the kind words.
Half Case:
I have not tried my M8 and Thumbs Up with any half cases. There are quite a variety and I believe you are right, some trimming might be required. Some of the cases are so fine however, that I would be tempted to remove the Thumbs Up while it was in the case, if you were not going to use your camera.
Hot Shoe:
This idea has been mentionedseveral times. Both a cold shoe and hot shoe would bring even more utility to the Thumbs Up. Now that I have this design in production, I may have the chance to look at another version with a cold shoe. Stay tuned.
Speenth,
I did get on a bit of a critical run there, slicing into your good observations. Forgive me...coffee was running low.
Giottos Schott Glass:
These protective devices serve the protective function differently, depending on the material. I believe the Giottos are trying to provide you with optically the best protector. Most plastic cannot be as good as glass, in my opinion, when considerting this chactersitic. Protection however does not mean that it cannot be damaged. Glass cleans so very well, and is tough enough to avoid most scratches, but you cannot rely on the 0.5mm thin glass to be impervious to hard strikes. Plastic would serve you better if you use your camera under such conditions, but optically would not be as good.
Roundg,
You are right, the Thumbs Up will fit on other M cameras also. I have used a TU on my M6. With the M6, I prefer the model 3, the longer version. Both the model 1 and model 3 will work quite well on your older M model camera. You will find the grip on those cameras when using the Thumbs Up is also much improved.
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S
simonclivehughe
Guest
Just to comment on the Giottos protector, I put mine on my two M8s about 4 weeks ago and at this point, both are cracked. I find it typically happens when I pick up or take off the two cameras and one hits the other. Because the M8s are so damn solid, a slight tap shatters the Giottos.
At this point, I'm reverting to the "Invisible Shield" protectors. They are excellent and I've used them for a couple of years now.
At this point, I'm reverting to the "Invisible Shield" protectors. They are excellent and I've used them for a couple of years now.
Speenth
Emmaiter
simonclivehughe said:
Hi' Simon,
Both yourself and Tim, together with a string of posts in all the forums I review, all lead me to the same conclusion: Schott glass Giottos are for tripod mounted studio-based cameras! They're great optically, easy to clean, but fragile.
My M8 spends its life outdoors, on my shoulder, usually while I'm doing stuff frantically, mostly on my bicycle! In other words, I need depleted uranium armour plating for the LCD. Until Giotto's come up with that it's Invisible Shield protectors for me too.
I know this has been off topic, but it's been a very useful sideline conversation.
Thanks to all .. and to Tim - Not critical - proud! No offence.
Fin
Member
I do agree with Speenth re: the Logo and Finish, however this is still looks like a superb finished product - from CAD, to canvassing opinion, to production in 14 weeks is a seriously impressive enterprise. I've received the email and will be sending shipping details forthwith!
Congratulations Tim - I'm sure the hard work will have been well worth it!
Congratulations Tim - I'm sure the hard work will have been well worth it!
etrigan63
Rangefinder Padawan
Regarding half-cases: this might be a moot-point Tim. Unless you have some sort of detent mechanism on the TU, you could just slip it on the hot shoe and have it rest on the half-case. I have a Luigi case (Leicatime) and the leather is no more than 1/16 of an inch (1.5mm) thick. Would that cause a problem for the TU?
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Speenth
Emmaiter
Model 1 on order
Model 1 on order
I've watched this excellent project from the beginning. At first I was fascinated by Tim's CG skills, then by the design exercise, then by the way this whole project was being conducted with the fullest customer participation, with Tim always gracious and considerate of our wants and desires.
Then I got really hooked and started experimenting with the way I held the M8. The more I thought about it, the more I knew I NEEDED a Thumbs Up ....
So now I've ordered one and it will be more than just a bit of kit - because I feel I took part in its conception and birth. We're family.
I think the way Tim has presented this through RRF is a model for a business school study - very well done in every respect.
Congratulations Tim!
Model 1 on order
I've watched this excellent project from the beginning. At first I was fascinated by Tim's CG skills, then by the design exercise, then by the way this whole project was being conducted with the fullest customer participation, with Tim always gracious and considerate of our wants and desires.
Then I got really hooked and started experimenting with the way I held the M8. The more I thought about it, the more I knew I NEEDED a Thumbs Up ....
So now I've ordered one and it will be more than just a bit of kit - because I feel I took part in its conception and birth. We're family.
I think the way Tim has presented this through RRF is a model for a business school study - very well done in every respect.
Congratulations Tim!
jmhellman
Newbie
Hi, this is my first post. I find the discussions here very useful, and my Thumbs Up is now on its way. Can't wait to get it.
After having seen the Giottos on Tim's camera I ordered it right away. I had used plastic covers that continually peeled off. Then I read the reviews. So yes, I'm a bit anxious about it. However, I've used three M6s for years, often slung over my shoulders and neck simultaneously, and never got a scratch on any of them. So I'm in the category of "careful users" by almost any standard.
I found the Giottos easy to apply, but did not get it on perfectly. A wave of a hairdryer from 5-6 inches for about 20 seconds and it easily came off. The next attempt was fine and it is now on perfectly (I'm obsessive). One clue to putting it on right is to remove the upper piece of plastic, as it obscures the placement, and to turn on the camera Set menu so that you can see how it is going on and that it is parallel and does not obscure anything.
I'm off to Italy soon for two weeks where it and the Thumbs Up will get a workout. I'll report on the Thumbs Up my return.
I found the M8 uncomfortable and think the Thumbs Up will be the perfect solution. I have fairly large hands and the M6 always cradled perfectly in them. Part of the problem is that I'm left-eyed. If the menu is set to play the image immediately it is very distracting left-eyed. I'm going to practice right-eye use or keep the screen dark, which is probably the best solution for me.
This is a superb forum and I'm glad to come out from lurking.
After having seen the Giottos on Tim's camera I ordered it right away. I had used plastic covers that continually peeled off. Then I read the reviews. So yes, I'm a bit anxious about it. However, I've used three M6s for years, often slung over my shoulders and neck simultaneously, and never got a scratch on any of them. So I'm in the category of "careful users" by almost any standard.
I found the Giottos easy to apply, but did not get it on perfectly. A wave of a hairdryer from 5-6 inches for about 20 seconds and it easily came off. The next attempt was fine and it is now on perfectly (I'm obsessive). One clue to putting it on right is to remove the upper piece of plastic, as it obscures the placement, and to turn on the camera Set menu so that you can see how it is going on and that it is parallel and does not obscure anything.
I'm off to Italy soon for two weeks where it and the Thumbs Up will get a workout. I'll report on the Thumbs Up my return.
I found the M8 uncomfortable and think the Thumbs Up will be the perfect solution. I have fairly large hands and the M6 always cradled perfectly in them. Part of the problem is that I'm left-eyed. If the menu is set to play the image immediately it is very distracting left-eyed. I'm going to practice right-eye use or keep the screen dark, which is probably the best solution for me.
This is a superb forum and I'm glad to come out from lurking.
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Joe Mondello
Resu Deretsiger
Thumbs Up Arrived! First Impressions!
Thumbs Up Arrived! First Impressions!
My Thumbs Ups arrived today!
First impressions, thoughts and surprises (more to come soon):
1. Tim has created very *very* nice packaging for the TU. (pics to come) Kudos!
2. I originally thought the Model 3 (longer) would fit me best but in fact the shorter Model 1 is my choice and recommendation.
3. These are smaller than I expected
4. Workmanship is impeccable
5. The gloss looks just fine with the black M8 (better than the pictures indicate)
6. Mine both fit VERY tight. I was at first unable to remove it with my thumbnail and had to resort to the additional leverage of a wooden chopstick! Subsequent on/off cycles have been easier (and thumb-able) but the TU is a tight fit.
7. It really works! Comparing the TU with the R-D1's wind lever the TU is infinitely more comfortable and imparts a real sense of security in handling the camera one-handed.
8. While I haven't tested hand-holding improvements in terms of any real data or testing but my IMPRESSION is that the TU will live on my M8 going forward.
I have the Leica half case (camera protector) and the longer model just touches the leather while the shorter one clears it completely. The combination of the TU with the Leica half case feels really nice.
As an accessory -- from a camera handling standpoint -- the TU may well be a better buy than a half case or Leica's own grip both of which are more expensive and impinge on the bottom of the camera.
As for the use of the hot shoe, sure I'd like to be able to use accessory finders with the TU but for the moment it seems to be one or the other and most of the time the TU will win out.
FULL DISCLOSURE: Tim and I found each other on Flickr a few months ago in the M8 groups and I suppose due to my sheer enthusiasm for his designs and then encouraging him to take it further he has given me these two TUs for my evaluation.
BUT if I didn't like them I'd certainly say so.
My take on the TU is this: The TU adds considerably to a sense of secure handling with the M8. I really like it and congratulate Tim on creating a truly fine product that makes my M8 just that much better!
Hope that helps you all with your own decisions regarding the TU.
Thumbs Up Arrived! First Impressions!
My Thumbs Ups arrived today!
First impressions, thoughts and surprises (more to come soon):
1. Tim has created very *very* nice packaging for the TU. (pics to come) Kudos!
2. I originally thought the Model 3 (longer) would fit me best but in fact the shorter Model 1 is my choice and recommendation.
3. These are smaller than I expected
4. Workmanship is impeccable
5. The gloss looks just fine with the black M8 (better than the pictures indicate)
6. Mine both fit VERY tight. I was at first unable to remove it with my thumbnail and had to resort to the additional leverage of a wooden chopstick! Subsequent on/off cycles have been easier (and thumb-able) but the TU is a tight fit.
7. It really works! Comparing the TU with the R-D1's wind lever the TU is infinitely more comfortable and imparts a real sense of security in handling the camera one-handed.
8. While I haven't tested hand-holding improvements in terms of any real data or testing but my IMPRESSION is that the TU will live on my M8 going forward.
I have the Leica half case (camera protector) and the longer model just touches the leather while the shorter one clears it completely. The combination of the TU with the Leica half case feels really nice.
As an accessory -- from a camera handling standpoint -- the TU may well be a better buy than a half case or Leica's own grip both of which are more expensive and impinge on the bottom of the camera.
As for the use of the hot shoe, sure I'd like to be able to use accessory finders with the TU but for the moment it seems to be one or the other and most of the time the TU will win out.
FULL DISCLOSURE: Tim and I found each other on Flickr a few months ago in the M8 groups and I suppose due to my sheer enthusiasm for his designs and then encouraging him to take it further he has given me these two TUs for my evaluation.
BUT if I didn't like them I'd certainly say so.
My take on the TU is this: The TU adds considerably to a sense of secure handling with the M8. I really like it and congratulate Tim on creating a truly fine product that makes my M8 just that much better!
Hope that helps you all with your own decisions regarding the TU.
Phil_Hawkes
Established
TU and R-D1?
TU and R-D1?
Hi Joe,
I have an R-D1. Have you tried using the TU on the R-D1? Is the TU workable on the on the R-D1? Does it add to the sense of security on the R-D1?
Cheers,
Phil
TU and R-D1?
Joe Mondello said:
Hi Joe,
I have an R-D1. Have you tried using the TU on the R-D1? Is the TU workable on the on the R-D1? Does it add to the sense of security on the R-D1?
Cheers,
Phil
Joe Mondello
Resu Deretsiger
Phil_Hawkes said:
Hi Phil, no it's of no use on the R-D1 as it would get in the way of the winder.
jmhellman
Newbie
I waited at our post office three hours today for the mail carrier to return, as I had not been home when he came by. It is worth it! The Thumbs Up totally changes the ergonomics of the camera. I have my beloved M6 feel back.
The Thumbs Up lets the index finger fall right on the shutter button. A natural position without effort.
The finish is beautiful and the box itself a work of art.
Thank you, Tim. Thank you.
The Thumbs Up lets the index finger fall right on the shutter button. A natural position without effort.
The finish is beautiful and the box itself a work of art.
Thank you, Tim. Thank you.
TS ISAAC
Established
Isalan,
thank you Sir..
RoundG,
Yes the Thumbs Up will fit prefectly on your M6. In fact, it is designed for the M6 and M4. Your comment prompted me to make this post and show the TU on my M6 and M4. So have a look,
Thumbs Up creates a very stable feel for your camera. The winding lever can be left to do its job, and the TU will be in place where you prefer to hold your camera naturally. With film, I find I often take more time to set up my shots. The TU is perfect for the additional stability and comfort while you wait for the perfect moment.
FIN..
You Da Man...You caused me to collect my thoughts back there 3 months ago, and get some clarity on my design. Look what WE have now! Thank you Sir.
Etrigan63,
The Thumbs Up is best mounted right up against the body of your Leica. I had not considered it any other way. You will find that as you press the TU into the hot shoe, it becomes a tighter fit, this is intentional and the TU won't move at all when fully seated in position. This creates the great feeling of stability and security when your hold you camera. At least that is how I feel. Hope you come to feel the same about your Thumbs Up.
Many Thanks for your order. Give us a full report when you can.
Speenth,
Your M8 will feel......well.....naked, without your Thumbs Up. Thanks very much for your order.
Jim Hellman,
Wow, You ordered, I shipped and you got it and now your posting all these messages.......ahhhhhhhhhrghhh. You can't go back now! Thanks for posting the photos and the wonderful compliments. Glad you like the Thumbs Up. Thank you for your order Jim.
Joe,
WOW...what a fabulous review you provided. Soon you will be receiving all kinds of gear for your evaluation. You're a pro. Many thanks for encouraging me all along the way. Hope that TU becomes a permanent part of your kit.
Here are some photos of the last steps I take before shipping your Thumbs Up.
Above: The lower landings are intentionally made a but big during the final CNC machining step.
Then, I remove a slight amount of material to bring the dimension right into spec. I fit it
onto my own M8 as a final trial. If you see some long parallel scratches on your brand
new TU, its from my own M8 hot shoe! I will abandon that step and produce a Go-No-Go
gage soon, so duplicate the process.
Above: The Upper Landings are not as critical nor can I polish them at the same time.
The Thumbs Up is sand balsted priorto painting. This provides even better adhesion for
the paint. You may still see some traces of that dull blasted surface in some parts of the
brass, but it is the fit that is key. Eventually, w ewill all strike our TU on something and
chip some paint. But, the solid brass will take a lot of abuse and make you look like a
veteran photo journalist!
Above: My M6 with a Thumbs Up model 1 and the lever retracted. Now you can see why
there is a hole on your Thumbs Up......
Above: My M6 with the Thumbs Up model 1 showing the lever extended
Above: My M6 with a Thunbs Up model 3
Above: my M4 with a Thumbs Up model 1
Above: My M4 with a Thumbs Up model 1 showing the clearance for the lever
Above: My M4 with the Thumbs Up model 1 advancing film. Note the M4 hot shoe is has
a narrower dimension on the upper opening, showing more of the brass landings of the
Thumbs Up
thank you Sir..
RoundG,
Yes the Thumbs Up will fit prefectly on your M6. In fact, it is designed for the M6 and M4. Your comment prompted me to make this post and show the TU on my M6 and M4. So have a look,
Thumbs Up creates a very stable feel for your camera. The winding lever can be left to do its job, and the TU will be in place where you prefer to hold your camera naturally. With film, I find I often take more time to set up my shots. The TU is perfect for the additional stability and comfort while you wait for the perfect moment.
FIN..
You Da Man...You caused me to collect my thoughts back there 3 months ago, and get some clarity on my design. Look what WE have now! Thank you Sir.
Etrigan63,
The Thumbs Up is best mounted right up against the body of your Leica. I had not considered it any other way. You will find that as you press the TU into the hot shoe, it becomes a tighter fit, this is intentional and the TU won't move at all when fully seated in position. This creates the great feeling of stability and security when your hold you camera. At least that is how I feel. Hope you come to feel the same about your Thumbs Up.
Many Thanks for your order. Give us a full report when you can.
Speenth,
Your M8 will feel......well.....naked, without your Thumbs Up. Thanks very much for your order.
Jim Hellman,
Wow, You ordered, I shipped and you got it and now your posting all these messages.......ahhhhhhhhhrghhh. You can't go back now! Thanks for posting the photos and the wonderful compliments. Glad you like the Thumbs Up. Thank you for your order Jim.
Joe,
WOW...what a fabulous review you provided. Soon you will be receiving all kinds of gear for your evaluation. You're a pro. Many thanks for encouraging me all along the way. Hope that TU becomes a permanent part of your kit.
Here are some photos of the last steps I take before shipping your Thumbs Up.
Above: The lower landings are intentionally made a but big during the final CNC machining step.
Then, I remove a slight amount of material to bring the dimension right into spec. I fit it
onto my own M8 as a final trial. If you see some long parallel scratches on your brand
new TU, its from my own M8 hot shoe! I will abandon that step and produce a Go-No-Go
gage soon, so duplicate the process.
Above: The Upper Landings are not as critical nor can I polish them at the same time.
The Thumbs Up is sand balsted priorto painting. This provides even better adhesion for
the paint. You may still see some traces of that dull blasted surface in some parts of the
brass, but it is the fit that is key. Eventually, w ewill all strike our TU on something and
chip some paint. But, the solid brass will take a lot of abuse and make you look like a
veteran photo journalist!
Above: My M6 with a Thumbs Up model 1 and the lever retracted. Now you can see why
there is a hole on your Thumbs Up......
Above: My M6 with the Thumbs Up model 1 showing the lever extended
Above: My M6 with a Thunbs Up model 3
Above: my M4 with a Thumbs Up model 1
Above: My M4 with a Thumbs Up model 1 showing the clearance for the lever
Above: My M4 with the Thumbs Up model 1 advancing film. Note the M4 hot shoe is has
a narrower dimension on the upper opening, showing more of the brass landings of the
Thumbs Up
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Andy Aitken
Registered Loser
Ha! Guess what just arrived in the post!? I love it. Looks great, works great and still works great using a Sling.
Jobs a good un.
Jobs a good un.
Joe Mondello
Resu Deretsiger
TS ISAAC said:
Your kind comments are too kind, but I like it! 🙂 It has been an honor and a privilege for me to play the role of "encouraging fanboy!"
As for the TU becoming a permanent part of my kit . . . it already has Tim! The M8 just doesn't feel the same without it now.
And I DO think I'll give the Model 3 a whirl on my next shoot as well -- even though I still think the Model 1 is the one for me.
You are to be congratulated on filling a need in a creative and beautiful way!
2001alal
Member
beautiful
beautiful
hi tim
just got it, its beautiful
and your packaging is one up on apple's lol
thanks
beautiful
hi tim
just got it, its beautiful
and your packaging is one up on apple's lol
thanks
Fin
Member
Hey Tim,
Thanks for the rep points! and don't mention it!
I appreciate (hope) that you're being swamped by demand at the moment, but I'm still awaiting your final invoice email for total costs (shipping etc) - so my final piece of advice for the success of an excellent product is:
When the customer has cash waiting, the best time to get it is yesterday😀
All the best!
Thanks for the rep points! and don't mention it!
I appreciate (hope) that you're being swamped by demand at the moment, but I'm still awaiting your final invoice email for total costs (shipping etc) - so my final piece of advice for the success of an excellent product is:
When the customer has cash waiting, the best time to get it is yesterday😀
All the best!