querstrommotor
Member
First of all I have to introduce my equipment:
M8, M6Classic with Leicavit, M4-P with Leicameter,M3 and M2, Universalviewfinder,Leica Flash 24, Gitzo Basalt Tripod and FLM Ballheads.
Lenses: 15mm Heliar, 21mm Elmarit, 25mm Snap Shot Skopar, 28mm Elmar, 35mm Cron, 40mm Cron (CL), 50mm Cron, 75mm Color Heliar and Summilux, 90mm Cron.
As you can see, I´m a big Leica M enthusiast since nearly 12 Jears.
I bouht my M8 in december 2006, a silver body of the second series.
1. Body in daily use:
The manufacture quality of the M8 body is outstanding - the qualitycheck in the factory needs a lot of attention from the people at Leica, because the first things i mentioned in the shop was a bajonette, where you need to change a lens some extra hours in the gym - it was much to strong.
After 3 weeks of usage the on and off switch failed, so that I had to switch the cam on and press the shutter release butten to boot ths whole system - this is not a feature it is a defect on/off switch - so I had to send the cam back to Leica.
That was all of what failed till now - I had in the whole period of 5 month no problem with a sudden death problem or something like that.
The additional thickness of the body is everything else than just a few milimeters - you will feel the difference in the first second you grab the cam. Together with the strange vulkanite they use now on the M8 and also on the MP it is a slippery feeling to hold the whole system. Anoter problem is, that you have the multifunction wheel exactly on the position where you normaly grip the cam.
As I hate the design of all additional grips, I decided to buy a halfcase for my M8 - and the handling is now a lot better.
The silver finish is very sensitive to fingerprints and dirt - I think much more as it is with my silver M6.
Also be careful with the display, it is not so much scratch resistant as with my old digilux 2, so I just produced my first scratch after 2 weeks of usage - it was the zipper of my jacket...
I like the clear and easy menue structure of the M8 - my biggest wish is concerning the menues , to put the apperture correction menue on the arrows of the multifunction wheel - I think it is not so usefull to bring up a camera menue to give 1/2 stop more .
But till they maybe change that with one of the next updates you can measure a point where you find what you are searching for, store it and take your photo.
The biggest problem I have with the M8 is the motordrive inside the body.
Why is the no advance lever in addition to the motor, so that the user is able to decide, weather he likes to use the motor or to handle the M8 manually???
I cannot understand that, because we all loose now one of the best features of the M8 - the silence shooting.
I tried to use the cam during a concert in the Philharmonie here in berlin and had to stop that after my first shot, because everyone sitting next to me recognized the noise...
For such a kind of shooting keep yor analog stuff!!!!!
All in all, Leica did a very good job to bring the M into a digital system.
2. The rangefinder:
I Think they used an equal technologie as they did with the MP, the finder is much better than on my unmodified M6, till now I had no problems with flare.
What I feel, and what is not exactly prooven till now, is the fact, that you get much more on the sensor as you see in the rangefinder - and I guess, the effect is much clearer as with my M6....but I have to check that more precisely!
What you have to get used to is, to spent much more attention to focus.
Hey after so many years of using M cameras I thougt that I needed no extra practice lessons on focusing...
But you have to take care, most of my pics, which are rubbish are pics where the focus is incorrect.
I think that the reason of that is, first the ability to bring the picture up to 100% with just one mouseclick and second, to have not the traditional focal length, which everyone is used to.
What I mean is - who developed in the past every negative to a extreme size?? I Did not, and so, most of our pics look sharp on a small developed pic, but if we start to bring them up to a poster size, sharpness is another story. So you get more critical about sharpness with your computer and the ability to bring every shot to 100% or more.
The focal length with the M8 changes from a 50mm to nearly a 75mm - so you get another depth of field and also you have to think about your shutter speed. I did the mistake a couple of times at the beginning of my M8 usage - I shot with a 90mm cron in an avaiable light situation, full open with 1/90sec at A mode. I thought from my analog M experience that this is absolutely save - but the 90mm is now nearly a 135mm an there you have to be cool to take a sharp picture with a 1/90sec.
Both facts bring you to the point where you have to reherse again!
3. The speed:
I am totally satisfied with the speed of the cam, just If you take DMG and JPAG Fine together, you have to wait a little bit after your shot, to bring the pic up on yor display.
By the way, I use 2GB San Disc Ultra III - they are not mentioned at the Lica list to be compatible, but they are.
And they give you the speed to shoot 12 pics in serial mode bevor the camera needs calculation time.
With slower cards I was able to take a series of 9. Don´t misunderstand me, I am not shooting in that mode with an M, but it gives you an impression of the whole speed difference between the normal cards and the ultra high speed ones - that means, that every process, where the card is in use is much faster.
The Quality of the Pics:
If we have to underline things concerning the filequality, we have to mention the white balance, the IR problem.
With the filters and the last software, we get pretty much rid of any IR problem, but the white balance is a catastrophy for such a high end camera.Ok, if you shoot DNG (and you have to do that), you can cahange that easily, but if yo want to do a quick and dirty thing, without any processing in your computer - forget it.
If we forget the white balance problem for a while - you get stunning quality out of the box.
It is nearly not necessary to do any sharpening, and also the noise-situation is brilliant up to 640 ISO.
Be careful with your processing, you have to adjust things completely different as with other cameras.
If you take a standard setup, you will loose a lot of the file-quality.
I use at the moment Lightroom for all the processing, and one of the first things I had to work on was to find neutral positions for the M8.
The M8 brings easily the outstanding lensquality of the Leica glass to their sensor - and to our hard discs.
Keep in mind, that you need extraordenary good additional tools to keep that quality.
What I mean is, take care of your postprocessing and keep in mind that to print this quality, you have to spent serious money into an adequat printer.
The M8 plays in the top range of digital cameras, the overall quality is compareable to Nikon an Canon´s high end digital cameras.
The difference is, that you have to concentrate on every step of the whole process, what I mean is:
1. Lack of autofocus - means concentrate on focusing as you never did before.
2. Lack of any anti shake system - means keep in mind which real focal length your adapted lens has with the 1,33 crop - and be cool...
3. The postprocessing needs concentration of the white balance and nearly every parameter - be careful with extra sharpening.
At the moment it is much more work in the postprocessing stage as with a Nikon or Canon.
If you keep in mind these things you get a fntastic quality - and to tell you the trouth - I don´t miss film anymore...and that is the biggest compliment I can give a digital camera.
If you use high-end fine art paper and one top of the line Epson, you get a B/W quality, which is breathtaking!!!!
4. The Lenses
You have to keep in mind, that with the 1,33 crop and the standard M outfit (35mm-50mm-90mm)you have a serious lack of wide angle perspective....
If you do not like additional finder equipment in your hot shoe, you have to think about a 24mm - seldom seen in the second hand market..
Here the CV productrange comes to an interesting offer for all of you, who have to care about money.
The 25mm Snap Shot is a nice offer, also the 28mm lenses.
One of the stunning lenses together with an additional viewfinder is the Heliar 15mm - an amazing lens together with the M8.
If you by second hand leica glass, take care of correct adjusted lenses - be careful with the ebay market.
In a shop you can directly check the close and infinity adjustment of your new baby - I found out, that a couple of good offers here in Berlin were not correct adjusted.And I used the chance, where my M8 had holliday in Solms (on/off switch and Bajonette)to let them recheck the rangefinder adjustment - so it is in most of the cases not the camera, it is the lens...
If you see worn out screws on the bajonette or on the hardware of your new baby - be careful - in most of the cases a hobby camera technican tried to fix something...
That is the advantage of brad new CV lenses - if something is not working properly, you can send them back or change it directly in the shop.
From the point of view of quality there is nearly no argument against the CV lenses - even if the M8 turns out to be a quality check instrument.
You don´t get the quality of the Leica harware with the CV lenses, but most of them have a stunning quality concerning the optics.
One lens is worth to be mentioned extra - it is the CL Cron 40mm 1:2.
The used market is full of them and it is one of my favourite lenses on the M8. It gives yo the 50mm standard back to your M8 and its so small and lightwight.
The sharpness is fantastic, also colours and the ability to show contrast, the only thing you have to take care is usage against the light - that is not the strongest side of this lens.
In the bag:
You should keep yor analog M and make them a partner to your M8.
Why???
If you want to shoot in a concert or in a church, there is no way better than yor M2-3-4-5-6-7-MP.
So, I use my silver M6 with the Leicavit side by side to my M8, what I have on my whish list is a negative scanner in a quality which fits to the negative quality of analog M´s with their glass.
It is the noise of the motor, which makes an analog M necessary to stay in your bag - it is not the quality of the pics anymore - and that is the fantastic situation, you don´t have to use analog stuff anymore to get outstanding quality, you can make a free decision in what fits better.
What I love on the analog M is the possibility to use special filmmaterial, like the outstanding ADOX films - that crazy stuff is not available in the digital photography at the moment.
Hope there is someting interesting for you all
Greetings
Ekki
M8, M6Classic with Leicavit, M4-P with Leicameter,M3 and M2, Universalviewfinder,Leica Flash 24, Gitzo Basalt Tripod and FLM Ballheads.
Lenses: 15mm Heliar, 21mm Elmarit, 25mm Snap Shot Skopar, 28mm Elmar, 35mm Cron, 40mm Cron (CL), 50mm Cron, 75mm Color Heliar and Summilux, 90mm Cron.
As you can see, I´m a big Leica M enthusiast since nearly 12 Jears.
I bouht my M8 in december 2006, a silver body of the second series.
1. Body in daily use:
The manufacture quality of the M8 body is outstanding - the qualitycheck in the factory needs a lot of attention from the people at Leica, because the first things i mentioned in the shop was a bajonette, where you need to change a lens some extra hours in the gym - it was much to strong.
After 3 weeks of usage the on and off switch failed, so that I had to switch the cam on and press the shutter release butten to boot ths whole system - this is not a feature it is a defect on/off switch - so I had to send the cam back to Leica.
That was all of what failed till now - I had in the whole period of 5 month no problem with a sudden death problem or something like that.
The additional thickness of the body is everything else than just a few milimeters - you will feel the difference in the first second you grab the cam. Together with the strange vulkanite they use now on the M8 and also on the MP it is a slippery feeling to hold the whole system. Anoter problem is, that you have the multifunction wheel exactly on the position where you normaly grip the cam.
As I hate the design of all additional grips, I decided to buy a halfcase for my M8 - and the handling is now a lot better.
The silver finish is very sensitive to fingerprints and dirt - I think much more as it is with my silver M6.
Also be careful with the display, it is not so much scratch resistant as with my old digilux 2, so I just produced my first scratch after 2 weeks of usage - it was the zipper of my jacket...
I like the clear and easy menue structure of the M8 - my biggest wish is concerning the menues , to put the apperture correction menue on the arrows of the multifunction wheel - I think it is not so usefull to bring up a camera menue to give 1/2 stop more .
But till they maybe change that with one of the next updates you can measure a point where you find what you are searching for, store it and take your photo.
The biggest problem I have with the M8 is the motordrive inside the body.
Why is the no advance lever in addition to the motor, so that the user is able to decide, weather he likes to use the motor or to handle the M8 manually???
I cannot understand that, because we all loose now one of the best features of the M8 - the silence shooting.
I tried to use the cam during a concert in the Philharmonie here in berlin and had to stop that after my first shot, because everyone sitting next to me recognized the noise...
For such a kind of shooting keep yor analog stuff!!!!!
All in all, Leica did a very good job to bring the M into a digital system.
2. The rangefinder:
I Think they used an equal technologie as they did with the MP, the finder is much better than on my unmodified M6, till now I had no problems with flare.
What I feel, and what is not exactly prooven till now, is the fact, that you get much more on the sensor as you see in the rangefinder - and I guess, the effect is much clearer as with my M6....but I have to check that more precisely!
What you have to get used to is, to spent much more attention to focus.
Hey after so many years of using M cameras I thougt that I needed no extra practice lessons on focusing...
But you have to take care, most of my pics, which are rubbish are pics where the focus is incorrect.
I think that the reason of that is, first the ability to bring the picture up to 100% with just one mouseclick and second, to have not the traditional focal length, which everyone is used to.
What I mean is - who developed in the past every negative to a extreme size?? I Did not, and so, most of our pics look sharp on a small developed pic, but if we start to bring them up to a poster size, sharpness is another story. So you get more critical about sharpness with your computer and the ability to bring every shot to 100% or more.
The focal length with the M8 changes from a 50mm to nearly a 75mm - so you get another depth of field and also you have to think about your shutter speed. I did the mistake a couple of times at the beginning of my M8 usage - I shot with a 90mm cron in an avaiable light situation, full open with 1/90sec at A mode. I thought from my analog M experience that this is absolutely save - but the 90mm is now nearly a 135mm an there you have to be cool to take a sharp picture with a 1/90sec.
Both facts bring you to the point where you have to reherse again!
3. The speed:
I am totally satisfied with the speed of the cam, just If you take DMG and JPAG Fine together, you have to wait a little bit after your shot, to bring the pic up on yor display.
By the way, I use 2GB San Disc Ultra III - they are not mentioned at the Lica list to be compatible, but they are.
And they give you the speed to shoot 12 pics in serial mode bevor the camera needs calculation time.
With slower cards I was able to take a series of 9. Don´t misunderstand me, I am not shooting in that mode with an M, but it gives you an impression of the whole speed difference between the normal cards and the ultra high speed ones - that means, that every process, where the card is in use is much faster.
The Quality of the Pics:
If we have to underline things concerning the filequality, we have to mention the white balance, the IR problem.
With the filters and the last software, we get pretty much rid of any IR problem, but the white balance is a catastrophy for such a high end camera.Ok, if you shoot DNG (and you have to do that), you can cahange that easily, but if yo want to do a quick and dirty thing, without any processing in your computer - forget it.
If we forget the white balance problem for a while - you get stunning quality out of the box.
It is nearly not necessary to do any sharpening, and also the noise-situation is brilliant up to 640 ISO.
Be careful with your processing, you have to adjust things completely different as with other cameras.
If you take a standard setup, you will loose a lot of the file-quality.
I use at the moment Lightroom for all the processing, and one of the first things I had to work on was to find neutral positions for the M8.
The M8 brings easily the outstanding lensquality of the Leica glass to their sensor - and to our hard discs.
Keep in mind, that you need extraordenary good additional tools to keep that quality.
What I mean is, take care of your postprocessing and keep in mind that to print this quality, you have to spent serious money into an adequat printer.
The M8 plays in the top range of digital cameras, the overall quality is compareable to Nikon an Canon´s high end digital cameras.
The difference is, that you have to concentrate on every step of the whole process, what I mean is:
1. Lack of autofocus - means concentrate on focusing as you never did before.
2. Lack of any anti shake system - means keep in mind which real focal length your adapted lens has with the 1,33 crop - and be cool...
3. The postprocessing needs concentration of the white balance and nearly every parameter - be careful with extra sharpening.
At the moment it is much more work in the postprocessing stage as with a Nikon or Canon.
If you keep in mind these things you get a fntastic quality - and to tell you the trouth - I don´t miss film anymore...and that is the biggest compliment I can give a digital camera.
If you use high-end fine art paper and one top of the line Epson, you get a B/W quality, which is breathtaking!!!!
4. The Lenses
You have to keep in mind, that with the 1,33 crop and the standard M outfit (35mm-50mm-90mm)you have a serious lack of wide angle perspective....
If you do not like additional finder equipment in your hot shoe, you have to think about a 24mm - seldom seen in the second hand market..
Here the CV productrange comes to an interesting offer for all of you, who have to care about money.
The 25mm Snap Shot is a nice offer, also the 28mm lenses.
One of the stunning lenses together with an additional viewfinder is the Heliar 15mm - an amazing lens together with the M8.
If you by second hand leica glass, take care of correct adjusted lenses - be careful with the ebay market.
In a shop you can directly check the close and infinity adjustment of your new baby - I found out, that a couple of good offers here in Berlin were not correct adjusted.And I used the chance, where my M8 had holliday in Solms (on/off switch and Bajonette)to let them recheck the rangefinder adjustment - so it is in most of the cases not the camera, it is the lens...
If you see worn out screws on the bajonette or on the hardware of your new baby - be careful - in most of the cases a hobby camera technican tried to fix something...
That is the advantage of brad new CV lenses - if something is not working properly, you can send them back or change it directly in the shop.
From the point of view of quality there is nearly no argument against the CV lenses - even if the M8 turns out to be a quality check instrument.
You don´t get the quality of the Leica harware with the CV lenses, but most of them have a stunning quality concerning the optics.
One lens is worth to be mentioned extra - it is the CL Cron 40mm 1:2.
The used market is full of them and it is one of my favourite lenses on the M8. It gives yo the 50mm standard back to your M8 and its so small and lightwight.
The sharpness is fantastic, also colours and the ability to show contrast, the only thing you have to take care is usage against the light - that is not the strongest side of this lens.
In the bag:
You should keep yor analog M and make them a partner to your M8.
Why???
If you want to shoot in a concert or in a church, there is no way better than yor M2-3-4-5-6-7-MP.
So, I use my silver M6 with the Leicavit side by side to my M8, what I have on my whish list is a negative scanner in a quality which fits to the negative quality of analog M´s with their glass.
It is the noise of the motor, which makes an analog M necessary to stay in your bag - it is not the quality of the pics anymore - and that is the fantastic situation, you don´t have to use analog stuff anymore to get outstanding quality, you can make a free decision in what fits better.
What I love on the analog M is the possibility to use special filmmaterial, like the outstanding ADOX films - that crazy stuff is not available in the digital photography at the moment.
Hope there is someting interesting for you all
Greetings
Ekki
