Peter_S
Peter_S
Hi!
I am considering going from M6 to M8 for (hard) mountaineering (Caucasus and Pamirs are my usual playgrounds)...I am going on an extended trip and cannot take that much film with me, and the Contax T3 delivers great images when I want to use 135 film, and for serious film work there is my Rolleiflex....
Also, my Sigma DP2 is trashed and I need a new digital camera, and while great for landscape, the DPs lenses are not what I want for any photos focused on people.
So...any practical experience with the M8 in cold and demanding environments? Condensation (particularly when puttin it into a pocket inside jacket to keep warm), battery life, reliability? I would put a small Biogon C 2.8/35mm lens on it to keep compact, get 1-2 extra batteries to keep inside jacket, and perhaps get a CL as backup.
I do not shot that much, I am not so worried about battery life, unless the camera stops all together. I used a Sigma DP2 to over 7000m and did not have problems, altough that is said to have bad battery life...did not think so.
I had an M8 before (sold in favor of M6 and focus on b/w film photography), but with 2nd-party batteries and I only (happily) used it only outside the mountains for reportage and travel, so I am familiar with the camera.
Any practical mountain/winter travel experience qwith the M8 would be appreciated. My interest in NEX and X-Pro is limited as I doubt those can reasonably be operated with M-lenses, with gloves on and in dicy locations....M RFs have become 2nd nature to me.
Best,
Peter
I am considering going from M6 to M8 for (hard) mountaineering (Caucasus and Pamirs are my usual playgrounds)...I am going on an extended trip and cannot take that much film with me, and the Contax T3 delivers great images when I want to use 135 film, and for serious film work there is my Rolleiflex....
Also, my Sigma DP2 is trashed and I need a new digital camera, and while great for landscape, the DPs lenses are not what I want for any photos focused on people.
So...any practical experience with the M8 in cold and demanding environments? Condensation (particularly when puttin it into a pocket inside jacket to keep warm), battery life, reliability? I would put a small Biogon C 2.8/35mm lens on it to keep compact, get 1-2 extra batteries to keep inside jacket, and perhaps get a CL as backup.
I do not shot that much, I am not so worried about battery life, unless the camera stops all together. I used a Sigma DP2 to over 7000m and did not have problems, altough that is said to have bad battery life...did not think so.
I had an M8 before (sold in favor of M6 and focus on b/w film photography), but with 2nd-party batteries and I only (happily) used it only outside the mountains for reportage and travel, so I am familiar with the camera.
Any practical mountain/winter travel experience qwith the M8 would be appreciated. My interest in NEX and X-Pro is limited as I doubt those can reasonably be operated with M-lenses, with gloves on and in dicy locations....M RFs have become 2nd nature to me.
Best,
Peter
Riverman
Well-known
Cool photos on your stream. Sounds like an exciting trip. I had to visit Tajikistan and Georgia for work in 2010 and would love to explore their mountains.
I have no experience with the M8 but instinctively I'd be a bit nervous about thrashing a camera like that in a very hard environment. If you took your m6 would you have to carry your whole film supply all of the time or could you stow film supplies at your various bases? That's what I would do.
I have no experience with the M8 but instinctively I'd be a bit nervous about thrashing a camera like that in a very hard environment. If you took your m6 would you have to carry your whole film supply all of the time or could you stow film supplies at your various bases? That's what I would do.
Black
Photographer.
Your biggest consideration is probably going to be the energy sapping properties that cold weather has on the M8's (and any other) batteries. condensation will obviously be an issue, but if you only take out the M8 (as opposed to always having it out) to take specific shots, it shouldn't be too bad, especially if stored somewhere with silica gel sachets.
Personally, I'd still go with a film M. (M6/MP) because, if the batteries die, they can still be used - you only lose the meter.
Its a choice of carrying added burden of however many rolls of film you want, or just carrying the M8, where you may not be able to use it at all.
It will make for a very nice looking necklace, though
Personally, I'd still go with a film M. (M6/MP) because, if the batteries die, they can still be used - you only lose the meter.
Its a choice of carrying added burden of however many rolls of film you want, or just carrying the M8, where you may not be able to use it at all.
It will make for a very nice looking necklace, though
BobYIL
Well-known
Peter, read these carefully.. Your situation on top of the mountains or above 4000m, no matter what season, is more serious than these below:
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/essays/ND-m8-aa.shtml
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/essays/aa-07-worked.shtml
http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica...224-m9-dies-after-193-shots-antarctica-3.html
Martin Hartley, I suppose you know, Polar explorer and sponsored by Nat Geo too.. he takes an MP to his trips.
(As far as my experience is concerned, since the '60s I have never experienced any of my M2, M3 or M4s frozen or got stucked because of cold, even by skiing in blizzards.)
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/essays/ND-m8-aa.shtml
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/essays/aa-07-worked.shtml
http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica...224-m9-dies-after-193-shots-antarctica-3.html
Martin Hartley, I suppose you know, Polar explorer and sponsored by Nat Geo too.. he takes an MP to his trips.
(As far as my experience is concerned, since the '60s I have never experienced any of my M2, M3 or M4s frozen or got stucked because of cold, even by skiing in blizzards.)
Peter_S
Peter_S
Hi!
Thanks so much for the replies and links, they are valuable sources of real-world experiences. Looks like its a bit hit-and-miss, and I may - as I did in the past before funds ran out - use both M8 and M6 in combination, backed by the T3....with the M6 and T3 when it gets tough. Was hoping to leave the M6 at home, but it seems that may be not such a good idea. Perhaps M8 + CL + T3, need to look into the CL as a light M6 alternative.
With a love for film, but I need a good digital system too and the M8 seems still the only way to go when using ZM lenses in difficult work environments (Pretty sure I cannot deal with EVF MF and the AA filters on the mirrorless cameras, but that is entirely different story).
Riverman...Georgia and Tajikistan are absolutely gorgeous and always worht another visit. I love both, and I return to Georgia at least once a year.
Thanks so much for the replies and links, they are valuable sources of real-world experiences. Looks like its a bit hit-and-miss, and I may - as I did in the past before funds ran out - use both M8 and M6 in combination, backed by the T3....with the M6 and T3 when it gets tough. Was hoping to leave the M6 at home, but it seems that may be not such a good idea. Perhaps M8 + CL + T3, need to look into the CL as a light M6 alternative.
With a love for film, but I need a good digital system too and the M8 seems still the only way to go when using ZM lenses in difficult work environments (Pretty sure I cannot deal with EVF MF and the AA filters on the mirrorless cameras, but that is entirely different story).
Riverman...Georgia and Tajikistan are absolutely gorgeous and always worht another visit. I love both, and I return to Georgia at least once a year.
jalLee2001
jallee55
When I was mountaineering (2004 and before), I carried a F 100 and Yashica T 4. During the approach you can use the heavier more flexible kit. But once the going really gets tough, go for something as small and automatic as possible. The yashica had a zeiss lens and was smaller than the T3. Many of your shots can only be taken with one hand. When your tired and cold, focusing will not be your favorite thing to do. So think twice about a manual focus camera
Remember your kit will get totally trashed on a hard mountaineering trip. I ruined a Gr1, an N 90 "skied" about a 1000 ft down a slope in chamonix France, the list goes on.
Thanks so much for the replies and links, they are valuable sources of real-world experiences. Looks like its a bit hit-and-miss, and I may - as I did in the past before funds ran out - use both M8 and M6 in combination, backed by the T3....with the M6 and T3 when it gets tough. Was hoping to leave the M6 at home, but it seems that may be not such a good idea. Perhaps M8 + CL + T3, need to look into the CL as a light M6 alternative.
With a love for film, but I need a good digital system too and the M8 seems still the only way to go when using ZM lenses in difficult work environments (Pretty sure I cannot deal with EVF MF and the AA filters on the mirrorless cameras, but that is entirely different story).
Riverman...Georgia and Tajikistan are absolutely gorgeous and always worht another visit. I love both, and I return to Georgia at least once a year.[/QUOTE]
Remember your kit will get totally trashed on a hard mountaineering trip. I ruined a Gr1, an N 90 "skied" about a 1000 ft down a slope in chamonix France, the list goes on.
Thanks so much for the replies and links, they are valuable sources of real-world experiences. Looks like its a bit hit-and-miss, and I may - as I did in the past before funds ran out - use both M8 and M6 in combination, backed by the T3....with the M6 and T3 when it gets tough. Was hoping to leave the M6 at home, but it seems that may be not such a good idea. Perhaps M8 + CL + T3, need to look into the CL as a light M6 alternative.
With a love for film, but I need a good digital system too and the M8 seems still the only way to go when using ZM lenses in difficult work environments (Pretty sure I cannot deal with EVF MF and the AA filters on the mirrorless cameras, but that is entirely different story).
Riverman...Georgia and Tajikistan are absolutely gorgeous and always worht another visit. I love both, and I return to Georgia at least once a year.[/QUOTE]
jalLee2001
jallee55
FYI-I never had a problem with battery life or carrying enough film. If you were going to a polar region-then I would be concerned
Peter_S
Peter_S
Hi!
Yupp, I trashed my fair share of equipment too (on expeditions, but also working and ski guiding in the mountains), but have also learned how to protect cameras - there are places only the T3 and DPs would go, and where I leave any M behind). The thing is, its not like analog Ms are the cure - I have two M6s, cause one or the other needs repair...and the malfunction was not visible until after the rolls were developed. One reason for thinking M8 is actually that no Ms (or Ikon ZM or Contax G2, all of which I have used) seem very reliable and with the M8 I at least know when it does not work properly and I can pull out my T3 to save to day.
The one-hand-operation point & shoot thing is also covered by the Contax T3. If the Leica X1 had no AA-filter, I would consider it, but I prefer the results from T3 + Kodak Chrome Elite/Ilford Delta 100 over what I have seen from the X1. Mainly looking for something digital to replace my DP2, but that renders like my T3, and is 45-50mm - and seems like M8 & C-Biogon is the way to go for that.
Oh well, I can ponder about it for a while, seems like I know what I need to know to make a good decision. Perhaps M8 for the travel (convenience and to save film), and T3 + CL/M6 for the mountain. This way I can also leave all ISO 400 films at home, and take only ISO 100 and a few rolls of Delta 3200 for the dark.
As long as I have a few rolls of film and my T3 it's all good, really....
Thanks all!!!
Yupp, I trashed my fair share of equipment too (on expeditions, but also working and ski guiding in the mountains), but have also learned how to protect cameras - there are places only the T3 and DPs would go, and where I leave any M behind). The thing is, its not like analog Ms are the cure - I have two M6s, cause one or the other needs repair...and the malfunction was not visible until after the rolls were developed. One reason for thinking M8 is actually that no Ms (or Ikon ZM or Contax G2, all of which I have used) seem very reliable and with the M8 I at least know when it does not work properly and I can pull out my T3 to save to day.
The one-hand-operation point & shoot thing is also covered by the Contax T3. If the Leica X1 had no AA-filter, I would consider it, but I prefer the results from T3 + Kodak Chrome Elite/Ilford Delta 100 over what I have seen from the X1. Mainly looking for something digital to replace my DP2, but that renders like my T3, and is 45-50mm - and seems like M8 & C-Biogon is the way to go for that.
Oh well, I can ponder about it for a while, seems like I know what I need to know to make a good decision. Perhaps M8 for the travel (convenience and to save film), and T3 + CL/M6 for the mountain. This way I can also leave all ISO 400 films at home, and take only ISO 100 and a few rolls of Delta 3200 for the dark.
As long as I have a few rolls of film and my T3 it's all good, really....
Thanks all!!!
jalLee2001
jallee55
Your M 6 failed. That is one issue that I never had. the top of my M7 was smashed by a falling rock
I was actually going to get one some of the cheaper N65's and run with those on the mountain. That was actually recommended by some mountainer/ photoraphers that I knew. Their theory was with all the spin drift coming down the mountain, nobody could tell anyways. Nikon made/makes a nice 28 M, f2 that I used a lot.
They are cheap and toughter than you would suppose. If it takes the "dive", you havnt lost a lot.
Good luck on your trip and stay safe.
I was actually going to get one some of the cheaper N65's and run with those on the mountain. That was actually recommended by some mountainer/ photoraphers that I knew. Their theory was with all the spin drift coming down the mountain, nobody could tell anyways. Nikon made/makes a nice 28 M, f2 that I used a lot.
They are cheap and toughter than you would suppose. If it takes the "dive", you havnt lost a lot.
Good luck on your trip and stay safe.
noimmunity
scratch my niche
I've used the M8 quite a bit in harsh alpine environments in Taiwan and France above 3000 meters. No problems at all, except that the black paint finish on my M8 is now well-brassed--a look I find very attractive! I keep it in a small Ortlieb weather-sealed padded pouch and prefer to use it with the smallest lenses possible. In my case, that would be the ZM C Biogon 21/4.5 and the Rollei Sonnar 40/2.8 . Both of these lenses produce stellar images on the M8.
I still prefer to use slide film.
I still prefer to use slide film.
Peter_S
Peter_S
Sorted. Will get an M8 (also cause another non-mountain photo project is shaping up where I need it) for travelling, color photography and some easier tours and save film for on the mountain, and go "all film" on the mountain. I just cheaply (to cheap to resist) sourced a Leica CL, which I will try - I may use that and give my T3 to my climbing partner when weight is crucial.
M6 will remain my prime camera for any b/w photo work and when weight is not an issue.
Thanks for the help everybody! Now I need to find a cheap M8 body...
M6 will remain my prime camera for any b/w photo work and when weight is not an issue.
Thanks for the help everybody! Now I need to find a cheap M8 body...
jay_kay
Member
Seems like youve already made up your mind, but just to add that I used my M8 at 5000+ meters in the Bolivian Andes with no issues.
Aside from the normal considerations with cold batteries, the camera itself will work just fine in the freezing cold and at high altitudes. Numb hands are a bigger issue than anything the camera threw up at me!
Aside from the normal considerations with cold batteries, the camera itself will work just fine in the freezing cold and at high altitudes. Numb hands are a bigger issue than anything the camera threw up at me!
Mudman
Well-known
be careful of battery life. The M8's aren't that great with it. Other than that I think it's a great travel camera.