MJones
Member
Found a better permanent marker
Found a better permanent marker
In regards to the permanent marking issue, I found a better Sharpie.
I've been having to re-apply a standard permanent marker about every 3-4 times mounting a lens because it would rub off.
But not now that I've tried the "Industrial Strength Sharpie." I'm up to 20 times and it still recognizes coding. Eventually I think it will rub off but much longer lasting than anything else I've tried. Rubbing alcohol will take it off if needed. Otherwise so far so good.
I found it at local office supply store.
http://www.sharpie.com/enUS/Product/Sharpie_Industrial_Permanent_Marker.html
Found a better permanent marker
In regards to the permanent marking issue, I found a better Sharpie.
I've been having to re-apply a standard permanent marker about every 3-4 times mounting a lens because it would rub off.
But not now that I've tried the "Industrial Strength Sharpie." I'm up to 20 times and it still recognizes coding. Eventually I think it will rub off but much longer lasting than anything else I've tried. Rubbing alcohol will take it off if needed. Otherwise so far so good.
I found it at local office supply store.
http://www.sharpie.com/enUS/Product/Sharpie_Industrial_Permanent_Marker.html
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HetDraakje
Het Draakje
Looks like your idea has been done already (or has been copied before you can say "Leica")
http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m8-forum/32932-lens-id-mystery.html
http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m8-forum/32932-lens-id-mystery.html
boilerdoc2
Well-known
MJones: Where can you find these Industrail Strength Sharpies? Lowes, Home Depot, Office Depot?
Thanks.......
Steve
Thanks.......
Steve
MJones
Member
office depot
office depot
is where I found them - obscurely hidden in the corner display with the other 1000's of sharpies - had to look for a while. Came in a pack of three.
office depot
is where I found them - obscurely hidden in the corner display with the other 1000's of sharpies - had to look for a while. Came in a pack of three.
TS ISAAC
Established
Many comments have been posted and I am so pleased with the interest in M-Coder.
First and perhaps the most important response from me as well as Laptoprob and others, is this: There is not sufficient room between your lens and the m-mount of your camera body, for anything except ink on the surface of your M-lens. One of the reasons the ink wears off is because of the superlative flatness of the lens mount and camera body, and that these two surfaces touch each other. Leica machine cuts pockets in the lens base, to protect the white and dark painted surfaces from touching the m-mount and to keep them pristine. The temporary ink marks we want to create on our lenses must be thin because we cannot form any recessed pockets. If you choose to use paint to create the code markings on older lenses, you run a very high risk of contaminating your shutter curtain mechanism and CCD as the paint wears down and flakes off.
John L. and Gareth C. and Stu W.
thanks for your compliments. These early comments set the stage for me and put me in a good mood to pursue the idea to the next step.
Ben Z,
I understand your frustration with the paper templates. Of course I am happy to supply you with an M-Coder. The M-Coder grips the lens around the outside of the barrel and indexes from the lock ring groove. It’s difficult to position it improperly. You can toss your paper template away.
Etrigan63,
Thank you sir. Your salad bar photos are nice. You remind me that I must get back out on the street and make more photos and maybe less time on the camera accessories, although, I am enjoying this process immensely.
Sirius,
If we choose the proper ink to be used with M-Coder, then our temporary coding marks will stay on our lenses longer. Please have a look at the Thumbs Up, at least it will stay on your camera without the need for ink!
MJones,
You are spot on with your observations. I will paint the M-Coder name on the top side with white, which should be a good visual cue. As for the ink, by now you have probably read the comments about the Permanent Industrial Sharpies available and others. I will research them all.
Richard Marks,
I must agree, A software function would be most welcomed to select lens information. In the meantime, the M-Coder slips nicely into your photography kit and will provide good service for a long time on all your lenses
Stu W.
As I pointed out, there actually is not sufficient space for using paint on your lens. I feel the best approach for marking temporary coding marks is to find stronger marking ink.
RML,
Its a very nice compliment that you feel the M-Coder could be patented. However, patents are time consuming and expensive, at least from my perspective on this project. It is my best guess here that others will provide similar devices and that the function of the M-Coder is that of a stencil.
Ben Z.
I wish I had the courage to mill the pockets for lens codes myself. You have my admiration for your skill and confidence in modifying your lenses.
Hartlen,
Please send me an email with the list of the lenses you want to include. A chart of lens codes should be something I include and is also good idea I received from from Joe Mondello.
Doctor Zero,
Thinking about your idea I can only find little room for any codes. Perhaps you could suggest a list of the popular lenses you would consider first. If there is not enough room on the M-Coder, I will make a special indication of popular lenses on the lens code chart.
Robin Harrison,
Bingo
Gurtch,
Stand by…I started the injection mold making process for the M-Coder today!
Laptoprob,
Ooooow, I am no good with a Dremel. Now a CNC milling machine is another thing. But placing my precious lenses in the vicinity of either gives me chills. Best leave the meal cutting operations up to the experts in Sohlms, in my opinion.
Etrigan63,
John Milich adapters are so well done. I am however, approaching the coding challenge from the temporary marking perspective. The M-Coder slips into your camera kit and adapts to any of your lenses quickly and predictably.
Gary Sandhu,
As I wrote in my previous comments, there is no room for even the thickness of a sheet of paper. Better permanent makers will be the best solution for coding.
Baycrest,
I would have trouble getting the marks in the right places. The M-Coder Ring indexes from the lens locking groove, so the code marking openings are already in position. No need to transpose them from the side of the lens. That’s where I would get something crooked.
MJones,
Thanks for your detective work. I will give the Shapie Permament Industrial grade a try! Sounds like a big improvement. And thanks for your request for an M-Coder.
HetDraakje,
I looked at the Leica website link you provided. It’s a good effort. However, it does not index onto the lens mount. I see a provision to visually line up the stainless template, but no means to radially hold it in place. That is not a big problem, but one that means you must take greater care when using that stainless template. At least it won’t tear like a paper template and should last a very long time.
First and perhaps the most important response from me as well as Laptoprob and others, is this: There is not sufficient room between your lens and the m-mount of your camera body, for anything except ink on the surface of your M-lens. One of the reasons the ink wears off is because of the superlative flatness of the lens mount and camera body, and that these two surfaces touch each other. Leica machine cuts pockets in the lens base, to protect the white and dark painted surfaces from touching the m-mount and to keep them pristine. The temporary ink marks we want to create on our lenses must be thin because we cannot form any recessed pockets. If you choose to use paint to create the code markings on older lenses, you run a very high risk of contaminating your shutter curtain mechanism and CCD as the paint wears down and flakes off.
John L. and Gareth C. and Stu W.
thanks for your compliments. These early comments set the stage for me and put me in a good mood to pursue the idea to the next step.
Ben Z,
I understand your frustration with the paper templates. Of course I am happy to supply you with an M-Coder. The M-Coder grips the lens around the outside of the barrel and indexes from the lock ring groove. It’s difficult to position it improperly. You can toss your paper template away.
Etrigan63,
Thank you sir. Your salad bar photos are nice. You remind me that I must get back out on the street and make more photos and maybe less time on the camera accessories, although, I am enjoying this process immensely.
Sirius,
If we choose the proper ink to be used with M-Coder, then our temporary coding marks will stay on our lenses longer. Please have a look at the Thumbs Up, at least it will stay on your camera without the need for ink!
MJones,
You are spot on with your observations. I will paint the M-Coder name on the top side with white, which should be a good visual cue. As for the ink, by now you have probably read the comments about the Permanent Industrial Sharpies available and others. I will research them all.
Richard Marks,
I must agree, A software function would be most welcomed to select lens information. In the meantime, the M-Coder slips nicely into your photography kit and will provide good service for a long time on all your lenses
Stu W.
As I pointed out, there actually is not sufficient space for using paint on your lens. I feel the best approach for marking temporary coding marks is to find stronger marking ink.
RML,
Its a very nice compliment that you feel the M-Coder could be patented. However, patents are time consuming and expensive, at least from my perspective on this project. It is my best guess here that others will provide similar devices and that the function of the M-Coder is that of a stencil.
Ben Z.
I wish I had the courage to mill the pockets for lens codes myself. You have my admiration for your skill and confidence in modifying your lenses.
Hartlen,
Please send me an email with the list of the lenses you want to include. A chart of lens codes should be something I include and is also good idea I received from from Joe Mondello.
Doctor Zero,
Thinking about your idea I can only find little room for any codes. Perhaps you could suggest a list of the popular lenses you would consider first. If there is not enough room on the M-Coder, I will make a special indication of popular lenses on the lens code chart.
Robin Harrison,
Bingo
Gurtch,
Stand by…I started the injection mold making process for the M-Coder today!
Laptoprob,
Ooooow, I am no good with a Dremel. Now a CNC milling machine is another thing. But placing my precious lenses in the vicinity of either gives me chills. Best leave the meal cutting operations up to the experts in Sohlms, in my opinion.
Etrigan63,
John Milich adapters are so well done. I am however, approaching the coding challenge from the temporary marking perspective. The M-Coder slips into your camera kit and adapts to any of your lenses quickly and predictably.
Gary Sandhu,
As I wrote in my previous comments, there is no room for even the thickness of a sheet of paper. Better permanent makers will be the best solution for coding.
Baycrest,
I would have trouble getting the marks in the right places. The M-Coder Ring indexes from the lens locking groove, so the code marking openings are already in position. No need to transpose them from the side of the lens. That’s where I would get something crooked.
MJones,
Thanks for your detective work. I will give the Shapie Permament Industrial grade a try! Sounds like a big improvement. And thanks for your request for an M-Coder.
HetDraakje,
I looked at the Leica website link you provided. It’s a good effort. However, it does not index onto the lens mount. I see a provision to visually line up the stainless template, but no means to radially hold it in place. That is not a big problem, but one that means you must take greater care when using that stainless template. At least it won’t tear like a paper template and should last a very long time.
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MJones
Member
MJones said:
Follow-up on using Industrial Sharpie:
- Leica 90cron - 30+ mounts and still coded
- Leica75lux - holds ink very well but a screw on mount in coding area has been tricky to fill
- 35lux - 15+ mounts and ink holding
- Zeiss25 - the metal to metal is so tight it scrapes almost all ink off so not any better for this lens, maybe 3-4 mounts at best (a bad lens copy maybe?)
Bob Baron
Member
I'd like to be on the list for when this becomes available.
Thanks,
--Bob
Thanks,
--Bob
cmogi10
Bodhisattva
I'l take it!
tonettem
Newbie
I'm interested.
etrigan63
Rangefinder Padawan
Not to worry Tim, I was not suggesting you take John M on, just that the poster suggested you do something similar to what John is already doing and I was merely informing them. If anything, your M-Coder would allow you to find the best code for your lens before you decide to take the step of having the mounting flange milled for coding.
bluepenguin
Established
I'd like to be on the list for when this becomes available as well.
Thanks,
--Jun
Thanks,
--Jun
etrigan63
Rangefinder Padawan
Add me as well Tim. Question regarding the Sharpie marker: Sharpie makes an oil-based paint marker with an extra-fine tip. It comes in many colors including black and white. Would these markers work for coding?
http://www.sharpie.com/enUS/Product/Sharpie_Oil-Based_Paint_Marker_Extra_Fine.html
http://www.sharpie.com/enUS/Product/Sharpie_Oil-Based_Paint_Marker_Extra_Fine.html
TS ISAAC
Established
M-Coder should use ink not paint
M-Coder should use ink not paint
Etrigan63,
I believe the paint marker will place too much material on the lens M mount. If I am right, the paint will get rubbed away with just a few lens changes. Far more serious however, is that the paint that gets rubbed away has to go somewhere. It would be more than troublesome if that marking paint ended up inside your M8. That is why Leica machines the pockets into the M-mounts, so their paint will not be abraided by lens changes, but rather fully protected inside the machined pockets.
The Sharpie Industrial marker looks like the ticket, or a similar product, ink style marker from another maker. I will be in the states soon and I will do some final research and make some choices.
The M-Coder will be ready soon. But what you have not yet seen is the D-Coder!
The two will work together to make a rather simple task of temporary lens marking. Stay tuned!
M-Coder should use ink not paint
Etrigan63,
I believe the paint marker will place too much material on the lens M mount. If I am right, the paint will get rubbed away with just a few lens changes. Far more serious however, is that the paint that gets rubbed away has to go somewhere. It would be more than troublesome if that marking paint ended up inside your M8. That is why Leica machines the pockets into the M-mounts, so their paint will not be abraided by lens changes, but rather fully protected inside the machined pockets.
The Sharpie Industrial marker looks like the ticket, or a similar product, ink style marker from another maker. I will be in the states soon and I will do some final research and make some choices.
The M-Coder will be ready soon. But what you have not yet seen is the D-Coder!
The two will work together to make a rather simple task of temporary lens marking. Stay tuned!
etrigan63
Rangefinder Padawan
Ah true, but if you get JM to mill your mounts for a more permanent coding solution, the extra-fine paint Sharpie will make coding those trivial. The way I see it, I would use M-coder ( and D-coder) to find the best code combo for a particular lens and then send the mount off to be milled for final permanent coding.
Abbazz
6x9 and be there!
Richard Marks said:
I have a Pentax K10d DSLR and I think this camera has a very smart approach to the use of old manual lenses. Every time you switch on the camera, it checks the lens to determine whether it's a new lens equipped with a chip or not. If not, the camera asks the user to select the focal length of the lens on the LCD screen by rotating the coding wheel. It takes only a few seconds and it allows the camera to adjust its "shake reduction" system to match the focal length and to include the lens info in the EXIF field of the images. I find it really nice to be able to use all the modern features of a digital camera with 40 year old Takumar or Zeiss lenses.
Cheers!
Abbazz
X
xcapekey
Guest
Couldn't you use a piece of vinyl lettering? cut it out to the size of the marks and stick it on? thin enough to work perhaps and more permanent than marker...
TS ISAAC
Established
Xcapekey,
Without the skills of a surgoen, or a dentist, working with such small items as vinyl stickers measuring 2.5 x 3 mm, I would be extremely challenged trying to place such items with precision. Then, there is the fact that such stickers are simply too thick. I seriously doubt you could tighten your lens into the locked positon with even a piece of paper in that space. Most typical printing paper is only 0.0035" thick.
Finally, if your vinyl sticker gets loose and finds its way into the shutter....oh my, well, best of luck.
For temporary lens code marking, stay with ink.
Without the skills of a surgoen, or a dentist, working with such small items as vinyl stickers measuring 2.5 x 3 mm, I would be extremely challenged trying to place such items with precision. Then, there is the fact that such stickers are simply too thick. I seriously doubt you could tighten your lens into the locked positon with even a piece of paper in that space. Most typical printing paper is only 0.0035" thick.
Finally, if your vinyl sticker gets loose and finds its way into the shutter....oh my, well, best of luck.
For temporary lens code marking, stay with ink.
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Abbazz
6x9 and be there!
xcapekey said:
Maybe it would be possible to use those rub down etch resistant markers or dry transfers used for making printed circuit boards?
Cheers!
Abbazz
TS ISAAC
Established
M-Coder coming to ife
M-Coder coming to ife
The M-Coder is one step closer today as the first test shots were produced to test out the injection molding tooling. This gives me the chance to check the fit on the M-Lenses, as well as refine the M-Coder part design.
Looking over the photos you may spot some inconsistencies in material flow. That is the purpose of the test shot, to determine what adjustments to the mold or the part design are required.
The focus of the most attention are the webs betwen the code marking slots, The material here did not flow across to the other side. I will slightly increase the thickness at that point. We will also increase the mold temperature and pressure slightly, to achieve better material flow.
Note the first test shots produce black material. In produciton the M-Coder will be bright blue ABS.
The M-Coder fit the lens perfectly, so the diameters and the spring clip funtion around the lens works very well. It snaps around the lens, then snaps down into the lens locking groove. This takes all of 2 or 3 seconds to orient the M-Coder for marking.
Many thanks to all for pointing me to the Shapie Industrial markers. I will connect with that company and it is my hope to supply them with my M-Coder, so you wont have to go searching. Think I will get a good price if I ask for 1000?
Here are some photos of the progress so far.
M-Coder coming to ife
The M-Coder is one step closer today as the first test shots were produced to test out the injection molding tooling. This gives me the chance to check the fit on the M-Lenses, as well as refine the M-Coder part design.
Looking over the photos you may spot some inconsistencies in material flow. That is the purpose of the test shot, to determine what adjustments to the mold or the part design are required.
The focus of the most attention are the webs betwen the code marking slots, The material here did not flow across to the other side. I will slightly increase the thickness at that point. We will also increase the mold temperature and pressure slightly, to achieve better material flow.
Note the first test shots produce black material. In produciton the M-Coder will be bright blue ABS.
The M-Coder fit the lens perfectly, so the diameters and the spring clip funtion around the lens works very well. It snaps around the lens, then snaps down into the lens locking groove. This takes all of 2 or 3 seconds to orient the M-Coder for marking.
Many thanks to all for pointing me to the Shapie Industrial markers. I will connect with that company and it is my hope to supply them with my M-Coder, so you wont have to go searching. Think I will get a good price if I ask for 1000?
Here are some photos of the progress so far.
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etrigan63
Rangefinder Padawan
Looks very promising Tim! I agree you may have to thicken the area around the code marking slots to better handle the thin webs. You may want to consider (although this would raise the complexity of manufacture) a metal insert for the marking slots.
Also, if you are going to bundle an Industrial grade Sharpie pen, please use the Extra-Fine Point, not the Fine Point. MarkingPenDepot.com gives discounts for bulk orders.
Also, if you are going to bundle an Industrial grade Sharpie pen, please use the Extra-Fine Point, not the Fine Point. MarkingPenDepot.com gives discounts for bulk orders.