M8 low light performance.......

[BigSteveG]

Now I've seen many wonderful images taken with the M8 in bright light and am starting to wonder about "grain" at higher ISO settings. Is this camera capable of producing a viewable image at say.....1000,1200 or even 1600 which is what I often shoot. Love my D200....but anything above 1,000 or so just sucks. Any examples you could point me to would be terrific!

 

[xihalife]

I am wondering about the same. I am quite picky about the noise and I have yet to see anything above ISO 320 that looks acceptable. 640 already has quite a bit noise so even though it would make it easier to shoot in low light (say, indoors) the amount of noise means that the resulting photos are not acceptable to me. The only exception would be B&W or otherwise a case where the graininess is an intended effect, but that really is an exception and not the norm for me.

M8 really is not much different from Canon 400D in that sense... ISO levels 100, 200 and 400 produce good quality while 800 starts to show noise. Of course, these cameras are in totally different price categories. I have read that the high end Canons are really good at even 1600 level but I have no first hand experience.

So, for me it's just ISO 160 and 320...

 

[BigSteveG]

I've read the same thing about the Canons. I'm thinking the M8 may only be good as a "daylight camera". If that is the case, I may as well stick to my film M's. And continue w/ the D200 when I can/need to use it. Medium format is a little bulky to use in hand held low light shots although I suppose higher film speed is acceptable due to the largeness of the negs.

 

[speanut]

I'm definitely agree with it. M8 is really daylight camera for me.
First time I shoot at evening (not night), Yelled myself, Gosh is this real ?

I'd rather use my 5D even its big size.

 

[jaapv]

Perfectly exposed high-iso shots on the M8 are surprisingly free of noise.
See the ISO 2500 shot in post #43 of this thread:
http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica...nsor-upgrade-when-available-2.html#post448844




Or these ISO 1250 shots:

And there are tricks... exposed for ISO 5000 :...

 

[dee]

My experience precisely jaap - but I love the painting quality of the grain in dim light anyway - can you expand on the tricks !? to ISO 5000 !!!

curiosidee

 

[jaapv]

Yes Dee, people tend to forget the basic concept of the M8 - easy to do in an age of dramtically increasing electronic intelligence - it is basically a manual camera with two primitive aids for focus and exposure. The camera only unfolds its full potential if the user has sound theoretical knowledge and experience of both focussing and exposure.-And colour theory for white balance as well. Radically different from any other digicam on the market, those are built to take all this out of the hands - and minds- of the user.
The trick? simple. The M8 has amazing shadow recovery. So for subjects with a low dynamic range - underexpose at low ISO and recover in Raw conversion. This one was ISO 640 exposed for 5000 and pulled up 4 stops on raw conversion.

 

[nksyoon]

So far I've shot in dimly lit bars at ISO640 with -1.3 to -2 EV. This is "tricking" the camera into metering at ISO1600-3200 (note that the M8's ISO rating is typically 0.3EV understated according to several reviewers, so 640 is really 800).

I then adjust the exposure in software, applying some colour noise reduction in Lightroom or ACR (30-50 depending).

1/45, f1.4, ISO640, -2 EV

1/30, f1.4, ISO640, -2 EV

 

[jaapv]

*flameproof suit*-- Can we call low light noise on the M8 pilot error? These bar shots certainly give rise to the thought. In my experience the way it draws low-light shots is unparalleled

 

[Roger Hicks]

You use high ISO settings, you get noise.

You use fast films, you get grain.

The picture can either rise above the grain, or use it. If the grain/noise is all you notice, it's probably not a very good picture.

I use the M8 at 2500 quite often. See the posts in the thread on 'Children, do they stop you shooting?' (girls dancing, push-chair).

Then again, I'm not obsessive about sharpness or vignetting, either. The photo is the thing.

Cheers,

R.

 

[nksyoon]

Using the M8 with lower ISO and underexposure is counter-intuitive if you're experienced in digital photography because most other cameras out there use more bits for the highlights than the shadows (to oversimplify - I'm sure someone can explain how the sensor data is translated into a RAW or DNG file) whereas it seems the M8 has more information in the shadows.

So far I'm sticking with ISO640 and -1 to -2EV. I don't like how ISO1250 looks, but I suppose I'd use it if I had to.

 

[jaapv]

And take advantage of the handholdability of the thing....
Summicron asph 35, ISO 640, 1/11th handheld:

 

[Roger Hicks]

Besides, noise ain't that bad. Noctilux, full aperture, ISO 1250

 

[rpsawin]

Yes Dee, people tend to forget the basic concept of the M8 - easy to do in an age of dramtically increasing electronic intelligence - it is basically a manual camera with two primitive aids for focus and exposure. The camera only unfolds its full potential if the user has sound theoretical knowledge and experience of both focussing and exposure.-And colour theory for white balance as well. Radically different from any other digicam on the market, those are built to take all this out of the hands - and minds- of the user.
The trick? simple. The M8 has amazing shadow recovery. So for subjects with a low dynamic range - underexpose at low ISO and recover in Raw conversion. This one was ISO 640 exposed for 5000 and pulled up 4 stops on raw conversion.

Excellent point. I have found that the digital images I like are shot by photographers who converted from film. Generally, they understand photography. The M8 seems to really reward those who use it intelligently.

Best regards,

Bob

 

[speanut]

I have to confess that my experience of M8 is only a week. I shot my kids in indoors at 640 and import to Lightroom. I noticed there are noises that I can't accept.
Especially, WB and high ISO are major killer for good impression on M8.

And I found there is not many tips on M8 out there. This threads really interesting
and useful for me. I think I donot forget the basic concept of film. I just don't
realize what M8 is capable of. take a shot with a low DR and raise it in S/W.
Sounds a way it has to.

Speanut

 

[nksyoon]

I think of it as the digital equivalent of shooting TriX pushed 2 stops instead of using Neopan 1600 or Delta 3200.

 

[furcafe]

IME, you can certainly get useable shots @ ISO 640 & above w/the M8, but it is definitely noisier than, for example, the Canon 5D.

 

[dee]

i guess there's noise and noise - surely it's not all the same ?

Then again , would not wish to use a Canon 5D , no matter how much '' better '' it is

This is an immense help to me , 'cos I have never done any developing , though understand the principle , and am struggling with raw conversion , but love low light shots .

The great element is that there is so much more that a pixelated 50's classic camera can teach me and using a classic 50s Summitar and Elmar [ though the Fed copy is simply georgeous ! OOPS !]

dee

 

[Matthew]

In my experience, M8 files at 1250 and 2500 certainly have a good deal of noise but print very well. If you look at the file at 100% it can be pretty chunky but looks fine on paper.

 

[Matthew]

Ah, I forgot...