jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
On collecting: I remember in the 1970-ies to 1990-ies that Ferrari prices went through the roof, - anything red with a horse stencilled on it somewhere was worth at least 500.000 $ - until in the early 2000-s prices dropped to a realistic value, and a lot of traders went bankrupt.
Collecting as a speculation object is a volatile sport...
Collecting as a speculation object is a volatile sport...
naos
23 Skidoo
I think you're on to something.... That would be an interesting line.
Olsen
Well-known
I agree with you.
Panasonic isn't such a large player with a huge profit (like Canon: Close to 70% of the camera industry profit!) to spend on an 'experiment' like Leica. I am sure that Panasonic is the one 'profiting' from the red dot. Not Leica.
First of all: Leica is very good at making lenses. Secondly, they are good at making cameras. Making digital cameras, however, has turned the camera business up-side-down. It is only Canon that is 'really' profitable making digitals. Nikon is picking up, - but are for sale. Obviously, Nikon's owners thinks 'the camera business' is risky these days.
As I have said here many times before; it is not at all certain that Leica will survive.... The falling dollar just might 'kill' Leica - and a range of other European exporters. - Eurofighter and Airbus will be saved by heavy government subsidies. Along with 'tons of' French wine brands....
Had only 'Leica' been a cognac!
Tuolumne
Veteran
A picture of the dollar exchange rate
A picture of the dollar exchange rate
The dollar has been gaining against foreign currencies. Many think this is the beginning of a longer term trend, due mostly to the weakness of foreign economies, rather than the strength of the US economy. A strong dollar helps imports to the US and hurts exports from the US.
/T
A picture of the dollar exchange rate
The dollar has been gaining against foreign currencies. Many think this is the beginning of a longer term trend, due mostly to the weakness of foreign economies, rather than the strength of the US economy. A strong dollar helps imports to the US and hurts exports from the US.
/T
Attachments
Ben Z
Veteran
In the USA currently there is a $500 rebate until IIRC Sept 30th. Discretionary spending in the US this summer is way off. The M8 wasn't selling at $5495, and according to at least one popular Leica dealer I talked to, the $500 rebate hasn't boosted sales. So a price hike probably can't hurt sales that are already at a standstill. Mercedes and BMW have not raised their US prices in the percentage Leica has, because if they did they might as well just pull out of the US market.
Tuolumne
Veteran
The WSJ has had a number of articles about how even premium brands, usually insulated from economic down turns, have been hurting in the US.
/T
/T
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Why?
This is a nasty, spiteful, divisive remark.
If you don't like Leicas, or can't afford them, DON'T BUY THEM.
But why hope they go out of business, depriving many good people of their jobs, and many others of the opportunity to buy cameras they like?
How would you feel if I said that I hoped your company collapsed tomorrow (or at least, that you were fired) and that you were left to starve?
Cheers,
R.
nanthor
Well-known
Reasons for price hike?
Reasons for price hike?
I thought that Leica had a program to update the existing M8's with a better LCD cover and quieter shutter, and perhaps a few more improvements. Couldn't the impending price hike just mean that future cameras have these improvements? Or are they already being sold with the improvements? I don't think the hikes will kill Leica, they are already ghastly expensive, but if you are well-off and want the best, you buy a Leica. I just wish that Epson would jump back in with a new/improved R-D2 with a 10mp sensor at a good price point, the R-D1 is a fantastic camera, handling, image quality, 100% viewfinder. There might even be a market for an entrepreneur to someday snatch up worn R-D1's, replace the shutter and imager, and sell it for 3500.00, half the price of the M8's successor. Hmm. Bob.
Reasons for price hike?
I thought that Leica had a program to update the existing M8's with a better LCD cover and quieter shutter, and perhaps a few more improvements. Couldn't the impending price hike just mean that future cameras have these improvements? Or are they already being sold with the improvements? I don't think the hikes will kill Leica, they are already ghastly expensive, but if you are well-off and want the best, you buy a Leica. I just wish that Epson would jump back in with a new/improved R-D2 with a 10mp sensor at a good price point, the R-D1 is a fantastic camera, handling, image quality, 100% viewfinder. There might even be a market for an entrepreneur to someday snatch up worn R-D1's, replace the shutter and imager, and sell it for 3500.00, half the price of the M8's successor. Hmm. Bob.
Olsen
Well-known
I doubt that what you claim regarding lack of price increases from BMW and Mercedes is correct. I know for sure that Ferrari has increased (from about 200,000 $/€ for a Scuderia in 2001 to 400,000 $ today) their prices in USA with more than just compensation for the dollar fall. So has Porsche.
I can assure you: The pages of business newspapers over here in Europe is full of announcements of price increases of European goods to the US market, - market cuts, firing of staff etc. etc. The fall of the US dollar is dramatic.
allen_a_george
Established
Not quite true. Panasonic has loaned Leica 20M euros (pg. 14 of Leica's FY 2007/2008 annual report). This was a surprise to me.
Anyways, I'm unsurprised by the price increase. No doubt, all the factors listed here - a captive market, the falling US dollar, and Leica's brand strategy - all play a role in that. Moreover, note that Leica themselves state that "For all product lines marketing and sales are uncompromisingly
geared towards the upper price segment." With that statement in mind, I doubt I'll ever be able to buy a new Leica.
SolaresLarrave
My M5s need red dots!
Leica should ditch Panasonic? Hah! I don't think it can make that choice. If anything, it'd be Panasonic deciding to ditch Leica instead.
In any case, why worry about a price hike? It's not the first, it won't be the last, and we'll be wringing our hands again in six months. If Leica priced itself out of my range, so are Ferraris and Rolexes. I'll turn to something else (Prius and Citizen) and be happy with it.
BTW, I'm getting a D700 for my next camera. Not soon, but next summer.
In any case, why worry about a price hike? It's not the first, it won't be the last, and we'll be wringing our hands again in six months. If Leica priced itself out of my range, so are Ferraris and Rolexes. I'll turn to something else (Prius and Citizen) and be happy with it.
BTW, I'm getting a D700 for my next camera. Not soon, but next summer.
willie_901
Veteran
Leica IS in the Rolex business.
Gabriel M.A.
My Red Dot Glows For You
Gabriel M.A.
My Red Dot Glows For You
Everything is going up in price around the world. It's about a 20% increase. How much is this part the Euro being a strong(er) currency, supplier's costs, etc.?
It is a very sad spectacle seeing many people here on RFF turning it into a PNut spin-off with "Leica" as its bashing focus.
Gabriel M.A.
My Red Dot Glows For You
Many different folks from certain parts of the world know nothing of currency fluctuations, and how the rest of the world (meaning, not their self-revolving universe) is playing out.
A lot of things are going up; percentage-wise, things are going up disparately. But this sort of thing is just too much to put some brainpower to it. No time. Must get results *now*. Think later. Much later. Grunt.
POINT OF VIEW
Established
Now
Now
You better buy now while the price is cheep. Quote , T. Boone Pickens
Now
You better buy now while the price is cheep. Quote , T. Boone Pickens
Ray Nalley
Well-known
It really doesn't matter why the Leica M is going up. Once it's priced beyond what you can afford, the reasons are moot. The M8 will (has) become a camera for people of some financial means. It's not an entry level camera for a photography student. It's for people with lots of money to blow. And there are plenty of those around.
Olsen
Well-known
Can you show me the link to Leica's 2007/08 Annual report?
Roger Hicks
Veteran
The 'logic' of some RFF people:
I can't afford a Patek Philippe watch.
Therefore Patek Philippe should make cheaper 'entry-level' watches in China.
If they don't, they will go broke.
Cheers,
R.
I can't afford a Patek Philippe watch.
Therefore Patek Philippe should make cheaper 'entry-level' watches in China.
If they don't, they will go broke.
Cheers,
R.
toyfel
Established
Leica too expensive, they deserve to go out of business?
Leica disconnected from the real world?
Why do people get so upset about Leica prices? Why do they get so upset about not being able to afford an M8?
Is it so important to have an M8? Is live not worth living without having an M8? Its just a camera, i.e. its nothing we NEED.
There are millions and millions of people on this planet that will never ever in their entire life be able to buy a camera, any camera! Do you think they are whining about Leica prices? Most likely not. They are busy struggling to survive.
And we think its the end of the world when Leica increase prices? THAT is ridiculous, in my opinion.
And for the people that cannot detach from this consumerist way of thinking. Buy a Canon/Nikon/Pentax/used Leica whatever and move on. But stop whining.
See Roger Hicks post for another point worth mentioning. Not very nice to wish for other people loosing their job just because you cant afford their product.
Leica disconnected from the real world?
Why do people get so upset about Leica prices? Why do they get so upset about not being able to afford an M8?
Is it so important to have an M8? Is live not worth living without having an M8? Its just a camera, i.e. its nothing we NEED.
There are millions and millions of people on this planet that will never ever in their entire life be able to buy a camera, any camera! Do you think they are whining about Leica prices? Most likely not. They are busy struggling to survive.
And we think its the end of the world when Leica increase prices? THAT is ridiculous, in my opinion.
And for the people that cannot detach from this consumerist way of thinking. Buy a Canon/Nikon/Pentax/used Leica whatever and move on. But stop whining.
See Roger Hicks post for another point worth mentioning. Not very nice to wish for other people loosing their job just because you cant afford their product.