EdwardKaraa
Well-known
Hello,
I am new to this forum and RF in general. I just recently bought an M6 and I'm loving it. I am still shooting digital with an A900 and Zeiss lenses, but suddenly the A900 and lenses are looking huge, so I'm seriously thinking to get a digital M body. I found an M8 in excellent condition, selling for around 2500$, but before I spend my hard earned cash, I thought I should ask here if you think this is still worth buying and what kind of problems to expect, other than the IR filter issue.
Your advice would be greatly appreciated.
Regards,
Edward
I am new to this forum and RF in general. I just recently bought an M6 and I'm loving it. I am still shooting digital with an A900 and Zeiss lenses, but suddenly the A900 and lenses are looking huge, so I'm seriously thinking to get a digital M body. I found an M8 in excellent condition, selling for around 2500$, but before I spend my hard earned cash, I thought I should ask here if you think this is still worth buying and what kind of problems to expect, other than the IR filter issue.
Your advice would be greatly appreciated.
Regards,
Edward
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
The only deterents are the crop factor and the slightly limited ISO capability ... if you can live with those it's a very good camera IMO.
SciAggie
Well-known
I have owned one for about a year and I love it. I have had no issues with it.
Chyn
Established
I have an M8, and I enjoy using it, these days more so than my M2. I've never owned a full-frame camera like the A900, so I cannot say whether coming down to a slightly smaller format will make a difference, other than weight in your case.
For lenses wider than 35mm, it's advisable to get 6-bit coding if they aren't coded already. Make sure you get at least two batteries, preferably the original Leica ones, because it takes only 300-400 shots per battery, probably a lot less than your A900.
I'm very happy with the M8 and have no burning desire to upgrade to an M9 any time soon.
For lenses wider than 35mm, it's advisable to get 6-bit coding if they aren't coded already. Make sure you get at least two batteries, preferably the original Leica ones, because it takes only 300-400 shots per battery, probably a lot less than your A900.
I'm very happy with the M8 and have no burning desire to upgrade to an M9 any time soon.
dave lackey
Veteran
Edward, welcome to our little window on the world. Glad to see your first post!
There are lots of great people and the resources here are amazing, so you have come to the right place with questions. Keith has summed it up quite well.
There are lots of great people and the resources here are amazing, so you have come to the right place with questions. Keith has summed it up quite well.
Gid
Well-known
Short answer - Yes. At $2500 it should be relatively low mileage even if from a dealer. If this is a private sale, I'd expect to pay less (converting to UK prices which tend to be higher than US due to taxes). Unless you know the camera's history, you're best buying from a dealer with a warranty. Anecdotal information suggests that most M8s that were going to fail did so early in their life (I had two fail very quickly). Later incarnations seem more stable.
Good luck
Good luck
Vobluda
Well-known
It's still a good camera, but you will be stepping back in time compared to your Sony. You'll have a crop sensor, you'll have to use IR Cut filters on each lens, you won't get high ISO anywhere near your DSLR, 10mp, etc. As long as you keep that in mind, it's still a good usable camera. Only pay $2500 if they are giving you a warranty of some kind.
EdwardKaraa
Well-known
Thank you very much for the very informative replies, and Dave for the warm welcome.
So it does sound like a great camera, even though it's nearly 5 years old.
By the way, thank you Gid and Vobluda for the price warning. What would be a more sensible price?
So it does sound like a great camera, even though it's nearly 5 years old.
By the way, thank you Gid and Vobluda for the price warning. What would be a more sensible price?
$2000-2200
EdwardKaraa
Well-known
Thanks jsrockit!
Well, the seller claims it has only 7k actuations, so I will need check about that. It does look fairly unused.
Well, the seller claims it has only 7k actuations, so I will need check about that. It does look fairly unused.
Lss
Well-known
It is a great camera for sure. Your $2500 quote is Northern Europe pricing. Since you talk in dollars you should be looking to spend at least 10% below that point for an M8. An M8.2 might be closer to $2500.
Jeff S
Well-known
I suggest buying only from a reputable Leica dealer that will, at a minimum, offer a limited warranty in case there are any initial issues. Actuation counts don't guarantee anything.
Prices fluctuate widely from dealer to dealer. When I sought a second M8.2 last year as a back-up to my new one (from two years earlier), I found differences of almost $1000 for seemingly similar cameras. Your efforts to call around and be patient will be rewarded eventually.
Keep in mind that there are multiple 'versions', and therefore price points for the M8. There is of course the base model. Then there are the upgraded M8s, varying by the number of upgrades, of which there are three: shutter (which sacrifices the 1/8000 speed for 1/4000), LCD screen and frame lines. Finally, there is the M8.2, which of course has all the upgrades and a few other minor things.
Given what I said about price variations, and based on my much earlier search process, I would expect that a clean M8 from a good dealer might be about $2200-$2500. On the opposite end, I paid $3400 for a darn near perfect M8.2, and I haven't seen prices improve much since then (one dealer had a similar one for $4600). In between, of course, are the various iterations of upgraded cameras.
I've had zero problems with my two M8.2s, and as I've posted here before, I actually prefer them to the M9 in certain respects based on my own needs and preferences. YMMV.
Jeff
Prices fluctuate widely from dealer to dealer. When I sought a second M8.2 last year as a back-up to my new one (from two years earlier), I found differences of almost $1000 for seemingly similar cameras. Your efforts to call around and be patient will be rewarded eventually.
Keep in mind that there are multiple 'versions', and therefore price points for the M8. There is of course the base model. Then there are the upgraded M8s, varying by the number of upgrades, of which there are three: shutter (which sacrifices the 1/8000 speed for 1/4000), LCD screen and frame lines. Finally, there is the M8.2, which of course has all the upgrades and a few other minor things.
Given what I said about price variations, and based on my much earlier search process, I would expect that a clean M8 from a good dealer might be about $2200-$2500. On the opposite end, I paid $3400 for a darn near perfect M8.2, and I haven't seen prices improve much since then (one dealer had a similar one for $4600). In between, of course, are the various iterations of upgraded cameras.
I've had zero problems with my two M8.2s, and as I've posted here before, I actually prefer them to the M9 in certain respects based on my own needs and preferences. YMMV.
Jeff
tmfabian
I met a man once...
another a900 shooter...huzzah!
But yeah...i actually use both the m8 and the a900 together and I can tell you that they play nicely with each other. Even with the zeiss lenses and the older, lower megapixel sensor in the m8, I can tell you that viewed side by side at 100%, the m8 files are slightly sharper due to the lack of an AA filter.
If you can afford the m8 without too much hardship and understand it's limitations, you will be happy with it.
Even though i've been a very vocal advocate of the m8 having perfectly fine and usable high ISO images...when I use both systems in tandem (like covering events...having a 28 on the m8 and the 85 zeiss on the a900) i will default to the a900 for high ISO needs.
But yeah...i actually use both the m8 and the a900 together and I can tell you that they play nicely with each other. Even with the zeiss lenses and the older, lower megapixel sensor in the m8, I can tell you that viewed side by side at 100%, the m8 files are slightly sharper due to the lack of an AA filter.
If you can afford the m8 without too much hardship and understand it's limitations, you will be happy with it.
Even though i've been a very vocal advocate of the m8 having perfectly fine and usable high ISO images...when I use both systems in tandem (like covering events...having a 28 on the m8 and the 85 zeiss on the a900) i will default to the a900 for high ISO needs.
ChrisC
Established
Edward - I'm assuming, from a European perspective, that the quoted price is likely high, even if it were from a reputable dealer offering you [importantly] a guarantee.
Without a grounding in the history of the M8, I'd suggest that you only buy with a dealer's guarantee. If, for example, the camera exhibited the centre line problem found in a number of early M8s with images pushed to high ISO [including mine], or, say, the rangefinder mechanism needs recalibrating, such costs would need to be covered by a dealer's guarantee. You need to read up on the differences between M8, M8.2, and M8 upgrade; the differences between them may or may not be relevant for you.
For me the 'IR issue', isn't an issue; I have IR/cut filters permanently mounted on my lenses and I'm fine with that.
The sensor can deliver stellar results, and when you wow the Museum of Modern Art curators with a portfolio of magnificent 24, 30 inch master prints [some print bigger], no one will give a damn that the work was made on an M8 instead of an M9, 10, 11, or whatever.
I'm agnostic about Leica, and the 'M' design is a 'warts and all' experience for me which produces imagery [in this case M8] with the many advantages of a small-form camera with rangefinder lenses, countered by my exasperation at some of the legacy design traditions that Leica have clung to. I reluctantly put up with those design traditions which irritate me, in order to benefit from the small-form way of working and the files the camera can produce. It should be noted however, that the small-form camera options are changing, and it's likely that 'M'-fit' lenses will soon be offered new platforms for serious work. It will be interesting to see which Sony, or Fuji cameras some Traditional 'M' lens users are working with in 2-3 years time. It's interesting times for downsizers.
............. Chris
EDIT - Oh yes, I nearly forgot; the right M8 is worth buying, maybe not the one you referenced though unless it is pristine and dealer-guaranteed.
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EdwardKaraa
Well-known
Thank you all for the replies. I decided not to buy the one on offer, since as you mentioned, I have no knowledge of the camera history. I will be looking for one from a reputable dealer as per the advice. Thanks again. You were really helpful!
LCT
ex-newbie
Compared to eBay prices, USD 2,500 is not cheap but not expensive either for a body with 7K actuations.
Better get a solid warranty though as digital Ms are not as reliable as their analogue counterparts.
IQ wise, the M8 is second to none at 160 iso, still very nice at 320 iso and more than acceptable at 640. At 1250 iso, a noise corrector will help a lot in underexposed and dark parts of your images but good results are not out of reach with the best raw converters.
No problem at 1250 and 2500 isos for B&W photos if you like the 'grain' rendition of the camera but the choice of the raw converter will play a big role there as well.
Better get a solid warranty though as digital Ms are not as reliable as their analogue counterparts.
IQ wise, the M8 is second to none at 160 iso, still very nice at 320 iso and more than acceptable at 640. At 1250 iso, a noise corrector will help a lot in underexposed and dark parts of your images but good results are not out of reach with the best raw converters.
No problem at 1250 and 2500 isos for B&W photos if you like the 'grain' rendition of the camera but the choice of the raw converter will play a big role there as well.
Gid
Well-known
Check out reddotcameras.co.uk. They have a few low mileage M8s available which can give an indication of what you should be paying - for US I imagine you would expect to pay less. Not sure how much VAT (tax) there is on these prices as second hand rules are different (VAT on profit not sale price). Not sure if they ship overseas either.
They do have a rather interesting black paint M8 with chrome dials
They do have a rather interesting black paint M8 with chrome dials
noimmunity
scratch my niche
They do have a rather interesting black paint M8 with chrome dials
The anti-panda M8. A limited edition late model released after the M8.2 . I took the white out of the M8 lettering on the front, put a black softie on top, and it looks great with both black and especially chrome lenses.
When I bought mine nearly two years ago, the price new (after rebate) was less than what is advertised now.